Zelda II Redux

[Razieldemon]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's done this, but I think it speaks volumes that I made an account just to gush about this patch in here.

Anyway, over the past couple evenings I did a run of Redux to take my mind off of studying for my finals this semester, and... it was fantastic. I love Zelda 2 to bits as is (it's arguably in my top 3 Zeldas), but the little graphical touches, magic tweaks  and QoL updates really feel like the 'extra couple months of dev polish' the original game never got. That... might not be a fair comparison to make, granted, but it summarizes how I feel. I can't imagine playing Zelda 2 again any other way - legit, mere hours before a friend told me about it, I was just thinking to myself "I wish I could take the QoL that Z2 Randomizer makes and put them into vanilla". You can imagine how delighted I was to read through the list of Redux's updates. :U

The only critique I think I have is that, while I know you were sticking to the original as close as possible, I wish you'd gone a little further with the graphics. I appreciate the usage of the Zelda 2 Rev Link sprite, but I've got a bit of a soft spot for how that hack tweaked the translation and items to fit more with Zelda 1. Bombs instead of the hammer, the Power Bracelet for the handy glove, etc.

All that said, if I might be so bold... how difficult do you think it would be to get a no-music optional patch? Much as I love the soundtrack, until the day comes when someone finally manages to hack these albums into Z1/2, having the option to disable music would be nice. There were a couple times where I just disabled the emulator sound and played the song, but without the sound effects, it's not really the same, you know? :p

If all you wanted was the graphics changed a tad you could run it through mesen and just update those tiles specifically.

Music looks impossible to fix last I checked.

[ShadowOne333]

Sorry for the really long hiatus guys.
I've been going through a lot lately.

Actually, this isn't the 1st time someone mentioned this...
(Seems like it got missed at the time.)

I tried it myself and got the same results, it just freezes (with FCEUX at least, dunno about the others).

Clean ROM = OK
Redux = OK
Keep Exp = "Continue" works as expected (exp stays). Confirming a "Save" though, causes the game to stop responding.
Redux+Keep Exp = Same as above. Though if you open the "Manual Save Menu" and choose "Continue" the exp resets to 0.
Attempting a "Manual Save" is the same as a "Game Over Save", it just hangs after confirming it.

The "Restart Same Screen at Game Over" patch, coincidentally
has the "Keep Exp at Game Over" patch included & this patch
works perfectly fine (saving works as it should, too).
It's just the separate (Keep Exp) patch that seems to have a problem.

I went ahead and disassembled the two patches you mentioned (Restart on Same Screen at Game Over & Keep Exp at Game Over), and I think I pinpointed the issue.

Code Select Expand

KeepExpAtGameOver:
// 0x1CA6F
// 55 07 8D 56
STA $0755 // Originally 8D 75 07 - STA $0775
STA $0756 // Originally 8D 76 07 - STA $0776

// 0x01CACA
// F0 14
BEQ $14 // Originally BEQ $08 - Branch to 0x1CAE0
LDA #$00 // Originally LDA #$40
STA $0775 // Originally STA $07B0
STA $0776 // Originally JMP $CF05
NOP // Originally STA $0775, STA $0776
NOP
NOP
NOP
LDA #$40
STA $07B0
JMP $CF0F

RestartSameScreenAtGameOver:
// 0x1CA6F
// 55 07 8D 56
STA $0755 // Originally 8D 75 07 - STA $0775
STA $0756 // Originally 8D 76 07 - STA $0776

// 0x01CACA
// F0 10
BEQ label0
LDA #$00
STA $0775
STA $0776
LDA #$40
STA $07B0
JMP $CF05
label0:
LDA #$03
STA $0700
JSR $CF30
CMP #$0F
BEQ label1
LDA #$06
LDY #$01
JMP $CAF0
label1:
JSR $C358
NOP
NOP
LDA #$00

The important part here is the JMP $CF0F found at address 0x1CADD.
Comparing it with the "Restart on Same Screen at Game Over", I believe this one is supposed to be JMP $CF05 instead of JMP $CF0F.

So with that said, can any of you please try out this patch and see if the issue with the freeze when selecting "SAVE" has been fixed?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ms6uhbtiuw3eaol/KeepExpAtGameOver.ips?dl=0

[lexluthermiester]

So with that said, can any of you please try out this patch and see if the issue with the freeze when selecting "SAVE" has been fixed?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ms6uhbtiuw3eaol/KeepExpAtGameOver.ips?dl=0

Done, no freeze on save, but no experience saved either.

[ShadowOne333]

Done, no freeze on save, but no experience saved either.

So saving works normally now.
But for the experience, what do you mean it's not saved?

The patch posted should only make you keep whatever Exp you had after you get a Game Over.
The Exp is not saved at any point, the Exp is only kept after cotinuing from a Game Over.

Does that work?

[lexluthermiester]

So saving works normally now.
But for the experience, what do you mean it's not saved?

The patch posted should only make you keep whatever Exp you had after you get a Game Over.
The Exp is not saved at any point, the Exp is only kept after continuing from a Game Over.

Does that work?

Yes, just tested.

[ShadowOne333]

Yes, just tested.

Nice!
Thanks for testing.
I will update the available patch for that one and make it the final optional patch for it

I will starting disassembling the optional patches and will begin to make the repository for it on GitHub, similar to what I've done with Zelda 1 Redux.
When things are good and dandy, I'll make it public.

[King Luigi]

So saving works normally now.
But for the experience, what do you mean it's not saved?

The patch posted should only make you keep whatever Exp you had after you get a Game Over.
The Exp is not saved at any point, the Exp is only kept after cotinuing from a Game Over.

Does that work?

Yea I did a quick test myself and the "Keep Exp" Saving looks good now.


...though I still have an issue with the "Manual Save Menu" (MSM).
If you happen to select "Continue" from that menu,
(rather than the Game Over one) you don't keep your exp.
I know it was originally just meant for Game Overs, but
since both menus are identical in appearance it kinda
makes it feel.. inconsistent, when it doesn't stick.

Here's the thing... when I 1st tried out this mod I also
added in some of those optional patches too (I mean, why not?),
with 1 of them being the "New Exp" patch. Since both that patch
and the MSM use similar 'shortcuts' to bring them up, I would
occasionally bring 1 up by mistake (yea, I know, that's my bad...).
So naturally I just wanted to 'Continue' after pulling up the MSM
most of the time. But, despite using the "Keep Exp" patch, it doesn't
actually keep it in that instance. ...Y'see what I'm getting at?

Would it really be a big issue if the "Keep Exp" patch
was altered to affect the MSM as well?


...also, umm... not to be a pest or anything, but...
What about the rest of my last post, will you do anything with that?
...sorry. Since you didn't mention anything before
I'm just curious if any of that will get used/considered.
(I kinda spent a lot more time writing out that last post than you'd think...)

[ShadowOne333]

Yea I did a quick test myself and the "Keep Exp" Saving looks good now.


...though I still have an issue with the "Manual Save Menu" (MSM).
If you happen to select "Continue" from that menu,
(rather than the Game Over one) you don't keep your exp.
I know it was originally just meant for Game Overs, but
since both menus are identical in appearance it kinda
makes it feel.. inconsistent, when it doesn't stick.

Here's the thing... when I 1st tried out this mod I also
added in some of those optional patches too (I mean, why not?),
with 1 of them being the "New Exp" patch. Since both that patch
and the MSM use similar 'shortcuts' to bring them up, I would
occasionally bring 1 up by mistake (yea, I know, that's my bad...).
So naturally I just wanted to 'Continue' after pulling up the MSM
most of the time. But, despite using the "Keep Exp" patch, it doesn't
actually keep it in that instance. ...Y'see what I'm getting at?

Would it really be a big issue if the "Keep Exp" patch
was altered to affect the MSM as well?

So Keep Exp only activates when you get an actual Game Over, but doesn't when you use the "CONTINUE" option from the Save menu?
Interesting.

Could anyone test and see if the RestartSameScreenAtGameOver.ips does the same thing? (CONTINUE erases the Exp, but Game Over keeps it) And if it DOES save the Exp after choosing Continue, then I might have missed one of the subroutines below it.

Please let me know if that patch behaves in the same way, if not then to go ahead and fix the Keep Exp patch.
If it does behave in the same way, then it will most likely stay that way

...also, umm... not to be a pest or anything, but...
What about the rest of my last post, will you do anything with that?
...sorry. Since you didn't mention anything before
I'm just curious if any of that will get used/considered.
(I kinda spent a lot more time writing out that last post than you'd think...)

Oh you're not a pest, far from it.
I did take your suggestions into consideration, it's just that since we are moving everything to proper source code, I haven't found the time to make the necessary changes.
Once I get to the text part of the source code, I'll be sure to make the appropriate changes

[ifightdragons]

I love  your work on both Zeldas!

The Exp. system is very unfair, in that you lose all your Exp. points when dying. And all the P bags you might have collected, will not respawn, meaning if you collected any of them and die before levelling up, they're all lost.

You should not lose Exp. points when getting a Game Over, it's just frustrating and not fun game design. At least not in a game such as Zelda II which has some totally outrageous parts almost entirely designed to make you Game Over. It's one of the biggest grievances of the entire game.

Please implement a fix where your Exp. points are retained no matter what. At least as an optional patch.

[lexluthermiester]

And all the P bags you might have collected, will not respawn, meaning if you collected any of them and die before leveling up, they're all lost.

That's an idea for a mod, make "P" bags persistent.

Please implement a fix where your Exp. points are retained no matter what. At least as an optional patch.

Also not a bad idea.

[King Luigi]

So Keep Exp only activates when you get an actual Game Over, but doesn't when you use the "CONTINUE" option from the Save menu?
Interesting.

Could anyone test and see if the RestartSameScreenAtGameOver.ips does the same thing? (CONTINUE erases the Exp, but Game Over keeps it)
And if it DOES save the Exp after choosing Continue, then I might have missed one of the subroutines below it.

Please let me know if that patch behaves in the same way, if not then to go ahead and fix the Keep Exp patch.

Yea, looks like it does the same thing...
"Manual Continue" = No exp.
"Game Over Continue" = Keeps exp.

If it does behave in the same way, then it will most likely stay that way

Errr, I mean-- NO. No it doesn't! It totally saves all that exp too!
N-no need to check or anything, just take my word for it... 
So uhhh, yeah.. guess you better go in and fix that patch then! 

Oh you're not a pest, far from it.
I did take your suggestions into consideration, it's just that since we are moving everything to proper source code,
I haven't found the time to make the necessary changes.
Once I get to the text part of the source code, I'll be sure to make the appropriate changes

Ah, I see. Well thanks for the update.
Best of luck for finishing all that up then!

[ifightdragons]

I'm glad to see others agreeing. Those two issues are some of the biggest flaws/annoyances of the original game, and it should be of high importance to fix them in an extensive Redux version.

At least as an optional patch.

[ShadowOne333]

Yea, looks like it does the same thing...
"Manual Continue" = No exp.
"Game Over Continue" = Keeps exp.
Errr, I mean-- NO. No it doesn't! It totally saves all that exp too!
N-no need to check or anything, just take my word for it... 
So uhhh, yeah.. guess you better go in and fix that patch then! 

Ah, I see. Well thanks for the update.
Best of luck for finishing all that up then!

Good to know that's fixed now
As for still keeping the exp even after a Game Over, I'll see what can be done about it.
No promises though, but it would be something to consider for a better "Keep Exp" optional patch.

[Kuma-SamaVII]

  I'm having some trouble with the patch.  For some reason anytime I die, the game either freezes or sends me back to the title screen.  Can anyone help?

[ShadowOne333]

I'm having some trouble with the patch.  For some reason anytime I die, the game either freezes or sends me back to the title screen.  Can anyone help?

Are you sure you're using the correct base ROM for patching?
I never heard of that issue before, and I can't replicate it neither.

[ianrace]

Thank you for your hard work on this hack. It has finally made much more enjoyable that it was before. So, great job! 

That being said, I came across an issue with the optional RestartSameatScreenGameOver patch. After reaching the Game Over screen, the game reloads at the same screen at which I died, as intended. But I am given only 3 lives to use regardless of the number of Link dolls I've found.

When I save the game and reload, the game starts with the correct number of lives, corresponding with the number of found dolls.

Other than that issue, this has been a great experience. Thank you again.

[ultimaweapon]

I'm waiting to see the new menu screen and the Double Jump get implemented.

[ShadowOne333]

Thank you for your hard work on this hack. It has finally made much more enjoyable that it was before. So, great job! 

That being said, I came across an issue with the optional RestartSameatScreenGameOver patch. After reaching the Game Over screen, the game reloads at the same screen at which I died, as intended. But I am given only 3 lives to use regardless of the number of Link dolls I've found.

When I save the game and reload, the game starts with the correct number of lives, corresponding with the number of found dolls.

Other than that issue, this has been a great experience. Thank you again.

Makes sense.
Yet another instance of an optional patch not working well with another feature.
I'll take a look at that later to see what can be done.

I'm waiting to see the new menu screen and the Double Jump get implemented.

Me too!
Can't wait to take a peek at that feature :p

So with that, I think some of the feedback so far is:

• Keep Exp at Game Over should have a variant to make the Exp be saved per file game reboot, or integrate it into the same optional patch
• Restart at Same Screen should save/load whatever max number of Link dolls the player has at the moment
• Copy/Erase save file by DarkSamus pending for main Redux

Did I miss anything?

[ifightdragons]

Looks very promising. Never thought I'd look this much forward to keep experiencing this game.

[Chicken Knife]

Hey ShadowOne333,

This has been a project I've really enjoyed testing and playing over the months of development, but as some of my previous comments indicated, I'm too much of a fan of the balancing of the original release to ultimately be able to accept the amount of rebalancing that has gone into this. I know it can be an ordeal, but do you think it's possible down the road to include an alternate version that essentially leaves out anything that affects the difficulty of the game (drop rates, enemies draining XP, hits to kill enemies, link dolls adding lives on restart, etc) and only implements the presentation, text, and miscellaneous improvements? Can anything close to that be achieved through the optional patches? It would mean the world to me if that could happen.