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What should the new name for the "Spell" spell be?

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Author Topic: Zelda II Redux  (Read 85586 times)

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #540 on: February 20, 2019, 03:52:30 pm »
That's a lot better than before.  It uses the Japanese version as its source, but adds more to it.  Very nice!  :)
Oh dude, I forgot to tell you, the New Exp hack (and your other "secret" hack you sent me) will be added as Optional patches into Redux :)
They're just too good hacks to not include them there somehow. I already have them saved up and ready to be zipped once Redux is finished!

Is it okay?
I want to give people the option to choose between the original Exp and the New Exp, and an optional patch is perfect for that.

How is your playthrough going? :P :thumbsup:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, for everyone reading this, can you guys help me out?
I am trying to remember exactly what changes have been put into Redux to add into the OP.
I thought of two this morning I was missing, but completely forgot them by the time I was about to add them lol
If you see something that was added/mentioned and is not on the OP list, please let me know so I can add it to the final list of changes made to the hack!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 03:58:43 pm by ShadowOne333 »

PowerPanda

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #541 on: February 20, 2019, 04:16:26 pm »
This is great. I just patched my rom, and toyed around with the new additions. Well done.

With the hearts for the life meter, is it possible to also have jars for the magic meter? I believe I posted a picture of a mockup I did over on njsoro's original thread.

Also, the ONE thing that I would add to Zelda II, to the point where I almost did a hack myself, would be to change either "Fairy" or "Spell" into "Dash", doubling your movement speed. This was added in the Shadow of Night hack, so I know it's possible. I also did some basic research on this in njsoro's thread, measuring out the jumping distance for no spell, jump, dash, and jump+dash. Basically, you could gate off areas of the game by making pits that have to be jumped over with a jump+dash combo, eliminating the need for either Fairy or Spell. Anyway, one thing that always bothers me in replays is how slowly Link moves when I have to backtrack. Being able to move faster would be a very welcome addition.

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #542 on: February 20, 2019, 04:52:55 pm »
Oh dude, I forgot to tell you, the New Exp hack (and your other "secret" hack you sent me) will be added as Optional patches into Redux :)
They're just too good hacks to not include them there somehow. I already have them saved up and ready to be zipped once Redux is finished!

Is it okay?
I want to give people the option to choose between the original Exp and the New Exp, and an optional patch is perfect for that.

How is your playthrough going? :P :thumbsup:

Sounds good!  :)  The playthrough is going well.  There are some dialog texts that seems weird to me, but other than that nothing out of the ordinary! 

Shade Aurion

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #543 on: February 21, 2019, 12:37:05 am »
So, its been awhile since I checked the OP and wow. There is stuff in there I didn't read about anywhere. Even a blue tunic.. Jeez ShadowOne333, you went all out. Well done man <3

IAmCaptPlanet

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #544 on: February 21, 2019, 07:32:27 am »
i think adding a "dash" or "speed" spell would make it feel too much not like Zelda 2 anymore.

that said, i think a "double jump" spell would be cooler than the weird floaty high jump spell.


Shade Aurion

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #545 on: February 21, 2019, 08:31:45 am »
I second this. A double jump would be more versatile and would make it feel similar to a metroidvania which would probably be a good thing and suit the battle system while giving the player more control. Maybe turn the fairy spell into something better too. A simple name change and sprite change would do. Maybe a Deku Scrub or something. An owl? I dunno but the fairy seems a bit off and always did. Did the FDS version of King's Tomb make it in? I really do think a grieving prince dropping some booklet exclusive lore would help the game overall. Perhaps feeling bad for falling under the magician's spell or what happened to Zelda and urging the player to head to the eastern continent. There isn't much story but what there is could be strewn around the worlds NPCs to make talking to them worthwhile as plenty have nothing of substance to say.

Aside from that i'm all out of ideas. At this point it'd like polishing something already glowing. Ya done gud son!

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #546 on: February 21, 2019, 09:04:09 am »
Here is a hack to make the King's Tomb resemble the much better FDS version.  For those that don't know the difference between FDS and NES version, here is a link so you can see them:

https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences#The_King.27s_Tomb

Now, it wasn't possible to make an [exact] replica, just because of the restrictions on gfx, and which tilesets are possible in town scenes vs. environment scenes.  Since the NES King's Tomb is a town scene, it uses a tileset for towns.

Here is an image showing a new King's Tomb.  It closely resembles the FDS version, but keeps the special gfx of the NES version.  Those little "dragon" statues.  They are fixed to Y-axis and can't be moved up and down, so I left them at the edge of the screens.



At 0xC5AB, paste this code:  D0 8B

At 0xC629, paste this code:  55 73

At 0xCBE0, paste this code:

24 60 A0 29 F5 09 A0 F1 D4 81 DA 82 53 E3 52 E3 52 E3 83 F6 73 0A 56 E3 52 E3 52 E3 D4 81 DA 80 A2 F1 F1 08 FF 0D 54 8D 37 06 7E 04 7B 04 73 C4 76 C4

What we did here is change the pointer for level data and enemy data to some free space, allowing more detail and enemies.



Finally, let's remap the tiles for the white cross in towns, so it uses the tomb gfx instead.  The normal tomb is fixed to a Y-axis, like the "dragon" statues, so we can't use that one.

At 0xC4AE, paste this code:  AF B0 B1 B2

This is the tile mapping for the white cross in towns.  Keep in mind, this will change the crosses in Saria town.  So if you want those to stay as crosses, you'll have to remap a different object, instead.  You just need to find an unused object, and remap its tiles to use the gfx for the tomb.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 11:34:09 am by IcePenguin »

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #547 on: February 21, 2019, 10:30:37 am »
Here is a hack to make the King's Tomb resemble the much better FDS version.  For those that don't know the difference between FDS and NES version, here is a link so you can see them:

https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences#The_King.27s_Tomb

Now, it wasn't possible to make an [exact] replica, just because of the restrictions on gfx, and which tilesets are possible in town scenes vs. environment scenes.  Since the NES King's Tomb is a town scene, it uses a tileset for towns.

Here is an image showing a new King's Tomb.  It closely resembles the FDS version, but keeps the special gfx of the NES version.  Those little "dragon" statues.  They are fixed to Y-axis and can't be moved up and down, so I left them at the edge of the screens.



At 0xC5AB, paste this code:  D0 8B

At 0xC629, paste this code:  55 73

At 0xCBE0, paste this code:

24 60 A0 29 F5 09 A0 F1 D4 81 DA 82 53 E3 52 E3 52 E3 83 F6 73 0D 56 E3 52 E3 52 E3 D4 81 DA 80 A2 F1 F1 08 FF 0D 54 8D 37 06 7E 04 7B 04 73 C4 76 C4

What we did here is change the pointer for level data and enemy data to some free space, allowing more detail and enemies.

Oh man that looks awesome!
Even better than I expected!

I just have a little suggestion.
Could the gravestone be the same one as the original? I think you replaced the gravestone with the cross symbol used for Churches in-game. Or is that one also limited to the Y-axis like the dragon statues?

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #548 on: February 21, 2019, 10:49:18 am »
I just have a little suggestion.
Could the gravestone be the same one as the original? I think you replaced the gravestone with the cross symbol used for Churches in-game. Or is that one also limited to the Y-axis like the dragon statues?

Those are limited to the Y-axis like the dragon statues. (because it's a town scene)  That's why I went with the one used by the church in Mido.  It could be replaced by the generic cross in graveyards, but that's not really fitting for a King.  :P  You could probably get creative with tile editing, and remapping object tiles to get the normal tomb gfx, but I dunno if you would have to end up sacrificing gfx elsewhere.  Stuff like that can get overly complex.

Edit:

Added a possible fix for the tomb.  All you need to do is remap some tiles.  If there is an unused object, or two, you could easily get the tomb and statues back to their original location.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 11:35:45 am by IcePenguin »

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #549 on: February 21, 2019, 11:21:25 am »
Those are limited to the Y-axis like the dragon statues. (because it's a town scene)  That's why I went with the one used by the church in Mido.  It could be replaced by the generic cross in graveyards, but that's not really fitting for a King.  :P  You could probably get creative with tile editing, and remapping object tiles to get the normal tomb gfx, but I dunno if you would have to end up sacrificing gfx elsewhere.  Stuff like that can get overly complex.

Ah interesting, so that's why.
I went ahead and tried to look around in the disassembly for possible code that could be related to that, to hopefully add back the statues and the gravestone.

I found this, maybe it's related or not, I'm not 100% sure, but maybe it can help:
https://lemmy.neocities.org/zelda2/bank3_and_7.txt

Code: [Select]
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;
bank3_SmallObjectsConstructionRoutines_Gravestone_07                           ;
ldx      #$00                          ; 0xdcb1 $9CA1 A2 00                    ; X = 00
beq      L9CAE                         ; 0xdcb3 $9CA3 F0 09                    ;
bank3_SmallObjectsConstructionRoutines_Tomb_Decoration__Left_08                ;
ldx      #$01                          ; 0xdcb5 $9CA5 A2 01                    ; X = 01
bne      L9CAE                         ; 0xdcb7 $9CA7 D0 05                    ;
bank3_Tile_Codes_for_Gravestone_and_Decorations                                ;
.byt    $95,$96,$97                    ; 0xdcb9 $9CA9 95 96 97                 ;
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;
bank3_SmallObjectsConstructionRoutines_Tomb_Decoration__Right_09               ;
ldx      #$02                          ; 0xdcbc $9CAC A2 02                    ; X = 02
L9CAE                                                                          ;
lda      $0730                         ; 0xdcbe $9CAE AD 30 07                 ; Position of Object Placement
and      #$0F                          ; 0xdcc1 $9CB1 29 0F                    ; keep bits .... xxxx
ora      #$90                          ; 0xdcc3 $9CB3 09 90                    ; set  bits x..x ....
sta      $0730                         ; 0xdcc5 $9CB5 8D 30 07                 ;; Position of Object Placement
tay                                    ; 0xdcc8 $9CB8 A8                       ;
jsr      bank7_Set_RAM_Address_for_Object0E0F; 0xdcc9 $9CB9 20 44 C9           ;
lda      bank3_Tile_Codes_for_Gravestone_and_Decorations,x; 0xdccc $9CBC BD A9 9C;
sta      (L000E),y                     ; 0xdccf $9CBF 91 0E                    ;
rts                                    ; 0xdcd1 $9CC1 60                       ;
                                                                               ;
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;

All I managed to do with the debugger was to pinpoint what routine prints the values to PPU so far :P
I'll keep trying though

ultimaweapon

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #550 on: February 21, 2019, 12:02:54 pm »
This is great. I just patched my rom, and toyed around with the new additions. Well done.

With the hearts for the life meter, is it possible to also have jars for the magic meter? I believe I posted a picture of a mockup I did over on njsoro's original thread.

Also, the ONE thing that I would add to Zelda II, to the point where I almost did a hack myself, would be to change either "Fairy" or "Spell" into "Dash", doubling your movement speed. This was added in the Shadow of Night hack, so I know it's possible. I also did some basic research on this in njsoro's thread, measuring out the jumping distance for no spell, jump, dash, and jump+dash. Basically, you could gate off areas of the game by making pits that have to be jumped over with a jump+dash combo, eliminating the need for either Fairy or Spell. Anyway, one thing that always bothers me in replays is how slowly Link moves when I have to backtrack. Being able to move faster would be a very welcome addition.

While technically it's possible to come up with jars for the Magic meter, as Trax mentioned, it's not possible to make them green because of the background colors. They would have to be white if jars were to be used.
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Shade Aurion

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #551 on: February 21, 2019, 12:14:23 pm »
I'm really gonna strain my brain here because you've already done more then I could have imagined so here we go.

I can't remember which palace but to progress you need to just happen to pass through a hidden wall. A hint for the wall in the palace and maybe an NPC in the town prior talking about hidden passages in walls would be a good option I think. Perhaps on that subject have another NPC talking about Bagu the woodsman north of Saria and maybe another speaking about the people of Kasuto fleeing to the east with some sort of hint to using the flute. While its all well and good that I/we remember these things, new players or people that haven't played it in 20 years might not know/remember what to do as back then a lot of hints were in the booklets rather then NPC dialogs.

I believe Rev Edition also has edited NPC/Enemy/Boss sprites so I don't know if you could use both the Rev Edition, original NES versions and the FDS versions all at once but if you could that I think would help with diversity. I think you may be limited though, i'm not sure.

The FDS also has a different battle theme. Perhaps you could make the Eastern continent use that theme to mix things up a bit?

Rev Edition also changed a few items to resemble more well known items in the Zelda series which might be worth replicating even as an optional patch (hammer = bombs, fireball = boomerang, etc) though I doubt Revility would mind if you just used parts of his hack here.

Lastly, that King's Tomb.. well done IcePenguin! I think keeping it enemy free would be best. A prince sprite would be easy enough to do if space allows it and would be as easy as editing one of the townspersons to have a crown and recoloring them and I dunno, maybe get him to drop a P bag or something after you talk to him and hearing about him being upset at his actions and mentioning the magician having him under a spell. Adding an edited woman sprite to Zelda's resting place as Impa would be an opportunity to elaborate on the lore too. Perhaps have them both as static sprites to save on space or make custom if you wanted to go all out.

Spoiler:


Even something as simple as this would likely do the job and TBH you could probably just use an unedited woman sprite for Impa

(I didn't put much effort into these, its just for example. Plus I think you have to keep within a limited palette?)

Aside from that.. I don't know.. maybe change the weird little elf creature before Shadow Link with the Triforce piece into.. I dunno, something that makes sense. You could probably alter the story to make the magician that the Prince was friends with into Agahnim/Shadow of Ganon and have him not die and instead have him become or create Shadow Link at end game? Maybe even use the FDS Carock sprite and either recolor it or the boss Carock to differentiate between the two further. I guess you should probably remove the corner exploit on Shadow Link too if you haven't already. I think having a double jump, extra lives and everything else should be enough handholding to make the boss fight much more doable without the exploit.

And that's it. I'm tapped dry on ideas and suggestions. This hack has far exceeded expectations and you guys should be proud of what you've accomplished. If any of my ideas seem doable, go for it. If they're not doable or not worth the effort, forget em. At the end of the day, this is already a definitive edition of Zelda 2 <3
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 12:30:56 pm by Shade Aurion »

Jeville

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #552 on: February 21, 2019, 03:36:05 pm »
I can't remember which palace but to progress you need to just happen to pass through a hidden wall. A hint for the wall in the palace and maybe an NPC in the town prior talking about hidden passages in walls would be a good option I think.
There is that in the game already: "THE PALACE HAS A FALSE WALL." A player can walk against the hinted wall and wouldn't know it's false without doing a jump though. Maybe change it to not require a jump?

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #553 on: February 21, 2019, 05:50:43 pm »
I'm satisfied with this patch as it currently stands. The only suggestion I could think to add is perhaps revert the tektites to be killable without using the Fire spell, like they were in the FDS version. That would bring them more in line with tektites in all the other Zelda games. Besides, I imagine that making them only vulnerable to fire in the NES version was an attempt to make the Fire spell more useful, but this hack already addresses that by increasing that spell's speed and range.
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Trax

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #554 on: February 21, 2019, 06:39:30 pm »
ShadowOne, what is that ASM reference you've been using recently? It seems like an assembler-compatible version of all my notes. It's almost a theft of my work, and it's very hard to read, with lots of punctuation and lowercase hex. I recognize many of my own comments in there. I don't agree with that.

About the jump and change of the maps, what I'm seeing is that this hack seems to have no defined boundaries as to what it aims to be. I've said that in the past about another hack (or maybe it was this one). It's not that I'm against improvements, but if you are going to call it "Redux", then maybe it should be just that. If you start playing with game physics and maps, well then after a while it will start being more and more a separate game, rather than bits of improvements of the original here and there. That's my own view.

Also, about the gravestones. In Towns, the Cross object is a "Small Object", code 0x0A, so it has both X and Y positions. The Gravestone, however, for some reason, is a Special Y Object, and is always placed at Y = 9 (third row from the bottom), as it is set arbitrarily in code. You can change this value, but all other objects will follow that change as well. The other Special Y Objects are the Portals and Walls (left and right), Fireplace, Fountain, Sign and Tomb Decorations (left and right). Some ASM could make the Gravestone a Small Object and give us the option of deciding the Y position.

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #555 on: February 21, 2019, 06:58:34 pm »
ShadowOne, what is that ASM reference you've been using recently? It seems like an assembler-compatible version of all my notes. It's almost a theft of my work, and it's very hard to read, with lots of punctuation and lowercase hex. I recognize many of my own comments in there. I don't agree with that.

Can't tell if it's a joke or not, but just in case it isn't, it's of the very same disassembly you made, and the one we've been using and referencing since the beginning of the hack, and it will be credited properly once the hack is done. I think even you have referenced it before in this very thread. I did a copy-paste of a portion of the disassembly which might help with our current objective. Still though, if there's something you don't want me referencing, let me know and I will avoid doing so.
And if it was a joke, I still just wanted to make things clear to be sure :p

Thanks for your comments, I do appreciate them.
And while we have done some pretty heavy changes, some will be optional, while the current one is an attempt to restore the FDS King's Tomb room into the NES version.
This hack will also attempt to bring back or uncensor changes which were done to the NES version, and while I have tackled most of them before, this one was still one I wanted to try and see if it was possible.

Thanks again for your feedback, Trax!

I'm satisfied with this patch as it currently stands. The only suggestion I could think to add is perhaps revert the tektites to be killable without using the Fire spell, like they were in the FDS version. That would bring them more in line with tektites in all the other Zelda games. Besides, I imagine that making them only vulnerable to fire in the NES version was an attempt to make the Fire spell more useful, but this hack already addresses that by increasing that spell's speed and range.

That one's easy, is a simple one byte change in a couple addresses, I think it's just a matter of removing one bit from their attribute table, and that's it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


EDIT:

I noticed that during the side-scrolling areas with enemies, the comma is still loaded in tile ID 9C.
The towns seem to have it in the same place as well.

So, I wanted to ask... Is the comma used anywhere during side-scrolling combat areas?
If it is not, I'd like to replace it with the arrow which gets loaded in tile ID 32 during towns, and put the comma in 32, and the arrow at 9C, so I can use the arrow for the Spell and Level-Up menus.

What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 11:44:29 am by ShadowOne333 »

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #556 on: February 22, 2019, 01:59:57 pm »
Pretty sure that comma isn't used anywhere.  I can't think of any place that has dialog except for towns, so it seems like a suitable tile for the arrow!  :)

ultimaweapon

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #557 on: February 22, 2019, 02:03:31 pm »
Here is a hack to make the King's Tomb resemble the much better FDS version.  For those that don't know the difference between FDS and NES version, here is a link so you can see them:

https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences#The_King.27s_Tomb

Now, it wasn't possible to make an [exact] replica, just because of the restrictions on gfx, and which tilesets are possible in town scenes vs. environment scenes.  Since the NES King's Tomb is a town scene, it uses a tileset for towns.

Here is an image showing a new King's Tomb.  It closely resembles the FDS version, but keeps the special gfx of the NES version.  Those little "dragon" statues.  They are fixed to Y-axis and can't be moved up and down, so I left them at the edge of the screens.



At 0xC5AB, paste this code:  D0 8B

At 0xC629, paste this code:  55 73

At 0xCBE0, paste this code:

24 60 A0 29 F5 09 A0 F1 D4 81 DA 82 53 E3 52 E3 52 E3 83 F6 73 0A 56 E3 52 E3 52 E3 D4 81 DA 80 A2 F1 F1 08 FF 0D 54 8D 37 06 7E 04 7B 04 73 C4 76 C4

What we did here is change the pointer for level data and enemy data to some free space, allowing more detail and enemies.



Finally, let's remap the tiles for the white cross in towns, so it uses the tomb gfx instead.  The normal tomb is fixed to a Y-axis, like the "dragon" statues, so we can't use that one.

At 0xC4AE, paste this code:  AF B0 B1 B2

This is the tile mapping for the white cross in towns.  Keep in mind, this will change the crosses in Saria town.  So if you want those to stay as crosses, you'll have to remap a different object, instead.  You just need to find an unused object, and remap its tiles to use the gfx for the tomb.

Screen 56 which is hidden just southwest of King's Tomb is exactly the same as the FDS version of King's Tomb.

"THE PALACE HAS A FALSE WALL." message refers to the hidden wall in the Island Palace (palace 5) that leads to a key, so you can get the Flute.

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Shade Aurion

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #558 on: February 22, 2019, 02:20:51 pm »
As far as the crosses go, I believe dungeons have unused spike objects so that may be useable for extra sprites.

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #559 on: February 23, 2019, 02:41:39 pm »
i think adding a "dash" or "speed" spell would make it feel too much not like Zelda 2 anymore.

that said, i think a "double jump" spell would be cooler than the weird floaty high jump spell.

Having played Shadow of Night, I can say it fits in very well with the existing spells. It's a stat buff, just like Jump, Shield, Fire, and Reflect. It's actually really fun to play with.