Zelda II Redux

[ShadowOne333]

Hey ShadowOne333,

This has been a project I've really enjoyed testing and playing over the months of development, but as some of my previous comments indicated, I'm too much of a fan of the balancing of the original release to ultimately be able to accept the amount of rebalancing that has gone into this. I know it can be an ordeal, but do you think it's possible down the road to include an alternate version that essentially leaves out anything that affects the difficulty of the game (drop rates, enemies draining XP, hits to kill enemies, link dolls adding lives on restart, etc) and only implements the presentation, text, and miscellaneous improvements? Can anything close to that be achieved through the optional patches? It would mean the world to me if that could happen.

I think most of what you are mentioning is already in some form or another in one of the many optional patches.
I remember we had this sort of discussion back some years ago, and I decided to implement optional patches for those that wanted the original difficulty of the game, meaning no restarting at palace, original Link dolls, original Spell consumption, etc.

Check them out, let me know if there's something missing.

[Chicken Knife]

Has it been years since we spoke about this stuff? Damn, you might be right about that.

I just reviewed the optional patches. I'm really happy you are including all this customization.

A few things strike me as missing from the optional patches that affect game balance.

1. You increased the drop rates of magic potions and xp bags.

2. Changes were made to how many hits kill the bubble enemies, perhaps more.

3. I remember there being increases to XP given by certain enemies. I don't remember the specific ones offhand. Would love to see those increases removed without doing away with the fix for the Daira, where you amended the red one to provide more XP than the orange, as it should.

4. Pretty sure the XP penalty for taking a hit by enemies like Bago-Bago was removed.

[ianrace]

I found another bug during my playthrough, this one in the Great Palace/Temple. I have the main patch, keep experience patch, and same screen at death patch installed.

I was on my last life, half a heart left when I entered a new sceen via elevator at the spot marked "O" on this map: https://www.nesmaps.com/maps/Zelda2/Zelda2Level07.html

It's the bottom of the elevator with the two ropes waiting in ambush. Well, one of the ropes got me as I came down. Game over. So I continue from that point. That game starts me off at that screen, but now Link is stuck in the upper left section of the wall with no way down. I had to reload my last save to try it again from the beginning of the temple.

This and the other I mentioned about the irregularity in the number of lives after a game over were the only issues I found. Again, very well done. I had a lot of fun playing this.

[OliVDB]

Sure, there are still a couple bugs there and there, but nothing that prevents a player from having fun (and I'm kinda used to bugs anyways, I've played the first released versions of STALKER Clear Sky, Hearts of Iron 1, and many other great but unstable games, it feels strange not to have some); but the most important part is that I'm actually having fun, it's great to go through my childhood's dungeons, especially when the only other thing to keep you busy is your boss's investment project in this property in Cyprus https://tranio.com/cyprus/!

[ifightdragons]

Sure, there are still a couple bugs there and there, but nothing that prevents a player from having fun (and I'm kinda used to bugs anyways, I've played the first released versions of STALKER Clear Sky, Hearts of Iron 1, and many other great but unstable games, it feels strange not to have some); but the most important part is that I'm actually having fun, it's great to go through my childhood's dungeons, especially when the only other thing to keep you busy is your boss's investment project in this property in Cyprus https://tranio.com/cyprus/!

While I agree that many games with bugs are completely playable, and that it doesn't have to hinder the fun, it's not really the approach that's being taken with ShadowOne's Redux versions of both the original Zelda's. He is clearly setting out to make what he considers to be the definitive versions of these classic games, without sacrificing the core vanilla experience. I get the feeling that he is a perfectionist, and holds himself to a very high standard. And it shows in his work.

This isn't being treated like a normal hack, but more like a lasting project to finally get some of the most classic games up to a near-perfect standard within its own natural limitations. So leaving bugs in is likely not going to be a satisfying prospect for those invested.

Why did you just sneak in a link to properties in Cyprus? 

[ShadowOne333]

Has it been years since we spoke about this stuff? Damn, you might be right about that.

I just reviewed the optional patches. I'm really happy you are including all this customization.

A few things strike me as missing from the optional patches that affect game balance.

1. You increased the drop rates of magic potions and xp bags.

2. Changes were made to how many hits kill the bubble enemies, perhaps more.

3. I remember there being increases to XP given by certain enemies. I don't remember the specific ones offhand. Would love to see those increases removed without doing away with the fix for the Daira, where you amended the red one to provide more XP than the orange, as it should.

4. Pretty sure the XP penalty for taking a hit by enemies like Bago-Bago was removed.

Can you try this optional patch out?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2sfu6s36h46tgyp/Original%20Enemy%20Attributes.ips?dl=0

That one basically restores the HP and Exp attributes for all the enemies to be the same as in vanilla Zelda 2.
Apply it over your Redux ROM, or a ROM already patched with the main Redux IPS.

As for the drops, open the ROM in a Hex editor, go to address 0x01E8AF, and change the C9 05 there to C9 06.
That should restore the original number of enemies killed for an item drop to be like in vanilla Zelda 2 as well.

I found another bug during my playthrough, this one in the Great Palace/Temple. I have the main patch, keep experience patch, and same screen at death patch installed.

I was on my last life, half a heart left when I entered a new sceen via elevator at the spot marked "O" on this map: https://www.nesmaps.com/maps/Zelda2/Zelda2Level07.html

It's the bottom of the elevator with the two ropes waiting in ambush. Well, one of the ropes got me as I came down. Game over. So I continue from that point. That game starts me off at that screen, but now Link is stuck in the upper left section of the wall with no way down. I had to reload my last save to try it again from the beginning of the temple.

This and the other I mentioned about the irregularity in the number of lives after a game over were the only issues I found. Again, very well done. I had a lot of fun playing this.

This one seems interesting.
Can you try dying in the same screen you mention, but let the game normally respawn you?
As in, lose a life, but don't make it a Game Over.
I'm curious as to what the game does when you lose a life there, and if it's entirely the optional patch's fault, or if it's present in the original game.

If it's from the optional patch, I am not sure just how much I'll be able to do, since the code for that in particular was made by both @njosro and @IcePenguin.
I'll await for your feedback!

He is clearly setting out to make what he considers to be the definitive versions of these classic games, without sacrificing the core vanilla experience. I get the feeling that he is a perfectionist, and holds himself to a very high standard. And it shows in his work.

That's the goal, to make the definitive versions of these two, given how most people just overlook them in favour of either ALttP and OoT for the most part.
As for being a perfectionist, hard to tell, I have more of an OCD thing going on rather than perfectionism xD
But indeed, I do hold myself to a high standard and give it the most I can out of me.

[Dracula X]

I'm having fun playing these hacks for this game and I think they all work with my MMC5 hack.

[ShadowOne333]

I'm having fun playing these hacks for this game and I think they all work with my MMC5 hack.

Oh nice!
Zelda 2 Redux works with your MMC5 hack without any changes?
What advantages does it give once applied?

Have you done one for Zelda 1? I'm not sure how feasible it would be to have Redux as an MMC5 mapper, or if it would give the possibility to have animated tiles in Zelda 1.

[Dracula X]

1. All hacks are now supported so you don't have to worry about manually copy and paste the select block of Hex.
It's in xdelta format now instead of IPS.

2. Well, you have extra RAM to use from $5C00-$5FFF and you can change anything from the fixed bank to $8000-$BFFF.

3. Zelda 1 has already been converted from MMC1 to MMC5.

[Harlemhero]

Hello there. Great zelda 2 mods in here. I tried to do a combination of mods, but I cant seem to integrate the zelda 2 rev.enemy sprites with the redux version of the game. Whats happening is when I combine both patches the graphics blink overlapping each other. Is there a patch that integrates the latest beta with the visual updates?

[ShadowOne333]

Hello there. Great zelda 2 mods in here. I tried to do a combination of mods, but I cant seem to integrate the zelda 2 rev.enemy sprites with the redux version of the game. Whats happening is when I combine both patches the graphics blink overlapping each other. Is there a patch that integrates the latest beta with the visual updates?

Try with this patch:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/738wu38wolnas5d/Revility%20Edition%20Sprites.ips?dl=0

Rev Edition wasn't made for the CHR switching method we are using for animated sprites, so I just edited his patch to work with the new animations, I also added it as an optional patch now.

[IcePenguin]

Hey, Shadow!  Glad to see this project is still active.  Last I was here is when you posted around Christmas?  Hopefully you are doing well!  You are back, so that's great.  Still looking forward to this!   

I won't be around long, but if I can help in any way let me know.

[ShadowOne333]

Hey, Shadow!  Glad to see this project is still active.  Last I was here is when you posted around Christmas?  Hopefully you are doing well!  You are back, so that's great.  Still looking forward to this!   

I won't be around long, but if I can help in any way let me know.

Hey there IcePenguin!
Nice to see you back for a while

I've mostly been doing optional patches.
The only remaining thing is the Copy/Erase for the File Select screen, so that Zelda II File Select works like the one in ALttP (and further games).

Once that's done, I think we could call it a proper release

Some people mentioned some slight changes to previous optional patches, I think these are the only ones:

So with that, I think some of the feedback so far is:

• Keep Exp at Game Over should have a variant to make the Exp be saved per file game reboot, or integrate it into the same optional patch
• Restart at Same Screen should save/load whatever max number of Link dolls the player has at the moment
• Copy/Erase save file by DarkSamus pending for main Redux

I have the source code for those handy in case anyone is interested, since I've been disassembling all the optional patches and I already have a private GitHub repo for it, while DarkSamus is doing the main Redux source code:

Keep Exp at Game Over:

Code Select Expand

//********************************************************************
// Keep Experience after a Game Over
//********************************************************************

bank 7;
org $CA5F // 0x1CA6F
sta.w $0755 // Originally 8D 75 07 - STA $0775
sta.w $0756 // Originally 8D 76 07 - STA $0776

org $CABA // 0x01CACA
beq.b $14 // F0 14 - Originally BEQ $08 - Branch to 0x1CAE0
lda.b #$00 // Originally LDA #$40
sta.w $0775 // Originally STA $07B0
sta.w $0776 // Originally JMP $CF05
nop // Originally STA $0775
nop
nop
nop
lda.b #$40 // Originally STA $0776
sta.w $07B0 // Originally STA $0756
jmp $CF05 // JMP $CF0F on original patch - Originally STA $0755

Restart on Same Screen at Game Over:

Code Select Expand

//********************************************************************
// Restart on the same screen after a Game Over
//********************************************************************

bank 7;
org $CA5F // 0x1CA6F
sta.w $0755 // Originally 8D 75 07 - STA $0775
sta.w $0756 // Originally 8D 76 07 - STA $0776

org $CABA // 0x01CACA
beq label1 // F0 10
lda.b #$00
sta.w $0775
sta.w $0776
lda.b #$40
sta.w $07B0
jmp $CF05
label1:
lda.b #$03
sta.w $0700
jsr $CF30
cmp.b #$0F
beq label2 // F0 07
lda.b #$06
ldy.b #$01
jmp $CAF0
label2:
jsr $C358
nop
nop
lda.b #$00

The Link Dolls one I don't have it, since it's from the main patch, but I disassembled the Original Link Dolls optional patch in case it helps:

Code Select Expand

//********************************************************************
// Original Link Dolls behaviour from Zelda 2
//********************************************************************

bank 7;
org $C35C // 0x1C36C
lda.b #$03
sta.w $0700

org $E81A // 0x1E828
inc.w $0700

[ultimaweapon]

Hey ShadowOne. Any update on Dark Samus progress?

[The_Atomik_Punk!]

My goodness, what a BEAST of a romhack! The preview of this hack is right in line with my style - enhancing and upgrading classics while respecting what made them great in the first place.

There's only one thing that puts me off from "trying" it however (along with other ROM hacks like SOM Turbo edition): the perpetual "beta" status.

Glancing over the version changelogs, I more than understand that everything is pretty much feature complete with the objectives of the hack, but to a layman like me, not seeing an offical 1.0 release, implies that there's something that still needs to be ironed out by testers.

I suppose my question would be, if this hack is as polished as it seems, why not finally release a v1.0? Is that right around the corner, so to say?

Keep killin' it, ShadowOne333!

[ifightdragons]

Not releasing before it's actually ready is the smart move. Most people will unfortunately just end up playing the unfinished beta version if it's released now, and will never bother to update later on.

[pleasejust]

My goodness, what a BEAST of a romhack! The preview of this hack is right in line with my style - enhancing and upgrading classics while respecting what made them great in the first place.

There's only one thing that puts me off from "trying" it however (along with other ROM hacks like SOM Turbo edition): the perpetual "beta" status.

Glancing over the version changelogs, I more than understand that everything is pretty much feature complete with the objectives of the hack, but to a layman like me, not seeing an offical 1.0 release, implies that there's something that still needs to be ironed out by testers.

I suppose my question would be, if this hack is as polished as it seems, why not finally release a v1.0? Is that right around the corner, so to say?

Keep killin' it, ShadowOne333!

I played it a year ago and it seemed pretty finished. It's still a hard game. I really don't understand how kids passed the original game in the 80's. It's brutal.

[darthvaderx]

Hello there. Great zelda 2 mods in here. I tried to do a combination of mods, but I cant seem to integrate the zelda 2 rev.enemy sprites with the redux version of the game. Whats happening is when I combine both patches the graphics blink overlapping each other. Is there a patch that integrates the latest beta with the visual updates?

I mixed the three hacks (Redux, Rev Edition and Link New Sprite) and made some edits both to make them work perfectly as well as to add things like smoke coming out of cities and swamps with movements (and I'm glad that the latter was officially adopted in Redux), Try it out:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pSt8BzNjMs9x9FNDqdQLUKNW2Ptp61KU/view?usp=sharing

[Triquick]

I mixed the three hacks (Redux, Rev Edition and Link New Sprite) and made some edits both to make them work perfectly as well as to add things like smoke coming out of cities and swamps with movements (and I'm glad that the latter was officially adopted in Redux), Try it out:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pSt8BzNjMs9x9FNDqdQLUKNW2Ptp61KU/view?usp=sharing

Which ROM File/Emulator did you use when you combined all three together? I just tried it and got mess of sprites/tiles when I left the Temple.

[darthvaderx]

Which ROM File/Emulator did you use when you combined all three together? I just tried it and got mess of sprites/tiles when I left the Temple.

As you saw there are two versions with completely different sprites and tiles that try to show themselves at the same time, so all I did was to edit the graphics with Tile Layer Pro so that one would surpass the other in some things, but it also has a certain order to combine the hacks: 1-Rev Edition, 2-Redux, 3-Link New Sprites and 4-Edit to fix it. I also had to make adjustments to the graphics of these items:

Pause screen
Opening text
Title screen
Grass
Wise Old Man (I prefer the original)
Save cursor
City (I also includes smoke coming out of it)
Swamp (I includes movement)
Empty heart
Sword (To look bigger without changing its length, I didn't want it to overlap the shield when in a defensive position)
Magic score "M"
Overworld sprite
Save sprite