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Poll

What should the new name for the "Spell" spell be?

Reveal
5 (21.7%)
Unveil
4 (17.4%)
Enigma
9 (39.1%)
Expose
5 (21.7%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Author Topic: Zelda II Redux  (Read 148561 times)

Shade Aurion

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #640 on: March 05, 2019, 11:42:29 am »
Considering that Zelda 1 and 2 are sequels to the bad ending of Ocarina of Time it makes more sense to call them temples. Plenty of stalfos and knights in other Zelda Temples afterall ;)

AdamDravian

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #641 on: March 05, 2019, 12:42:52 pm »
@Trax, so the original Japanese release also tends to shift around the wording between Palace and Temple?
Just to make it confusing enough :P

No, it doesn't. In Japan they're always referred to as "shinden" which could be translated into English as something like holy sanctuary, shrine, or temple. Most localized Zelda games translate it as "temple." Trax was merely saying that in spite of this, he personally prefers the use of "palace." I, on the other hand, prefer the more accurate "temple."

On an unrelated note, if the title screen is going to be modified, I'd personally prefer it to look more like the original art from the FDS version's manual:


I think that sword looks a lot more fitting for a Zelda game than the rather gaudy sword that's on the US boxart.
Writer of the '80s-themed webcomic Satan Ninja 198X

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #642 on: March 05, 2019, 02:11:56 pm »
Guess what!  I updated the pause hack.  :P  So it turns out I accidentally set it up in such a way that would allow you to pause the game while playing the flute - but you had to press certain buttons first.  So here is an updated version, and it even uses less code!

This new code will overwrite the location where you put the old pause hack in Redux, so no need to relocate it.

At 0x226D, paste this code:  20 A0 AB EA EA EA EA EA EA 60 EE 24 05 60

At 0x2BB0, paste this code:

Spoiler:
A5 F7 29 10 F0 07 C5 00 F0 03 4C B0 AB 60 FF FF A9 00 CD 27 07 F0 04 EE 24 05 60 A9 58 8D 44 02 A9 89 8D 45 02 A9 01 8D 46 02 A9 70 8D 47 02 A9 58 8D 48 02 A9 8B 8D 49 02 A9 01 8D 4A 02 A9 78 8D 4B 02 A9 58 8D 4C 02 A9 8D 8D 4D 02 A9 01 8D 4E 02 A9 80 8D 4F 02 A9 58 8D 50 02 A9 8F 8D 51 02 A9 01 8D 52 02 A9 88 8D 53 02 A9 58 8D 54 02 A9 91 8D 55 02 A9 01 8D 56 02 A9 90 8D 57 02 A9 58 8D 58 02 A9 93 8D 59 02 A9 01 8D 5A 02 A9 98 8D 5B 02 EE 24 05 A9 18 CD FE 00 F0 06 A9 18 8D FE 00 60 A9 F8 8D FE 00 60 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF

The extra FF at the end are just to overwrite the excess code of the old version.  I'm still trying to figure out loops, and when I do, I'll be able to shorten this considerably.  Until then, this will have to do, and now it -should- be fully functional.  (like last time, lol  :laugh:)  I tested this new version a ton, but let me know if it works ok for you.

Edit:

Updated the original post with the new code.

Edit:

Finished another full play through of Redux, and I have one last suggestion.  It's regarding enemy Exp in Great Palace.  It is much too low in comparison to other areas in the game, and it's rather underwhelming being the final area of the game and all.  Let's look at some enemies to compare:

Wavy Skull Head
Palace 1-6: 30 exp
Great Palace: 20 exp

Rope:
Palace 1-6: 20 exp
Great Palace: 20 exp

Red Iron Knuckle/Red Fokka
Palace 1-6: 100 exp
Great Palace: 70 exp

Blue Iron Knuckle/Blue Fokka
Palace 1-6: 150 exp
Great Palace: 100 exp

Firebird
Palace 1-6:
Great Palace: 200exp

Bubble Slow/Fast:
Palace 1-6: 20/30 exp
Great Palace: 20/20 exp

At this late in the game, it's most likely that the player will be 8-8-8, so they probably wouldn't care about exp, but these enemies should still give more Exp.  I'd say at least 3x more than what they currently give.  Even 2x more exp would be good.  It just surprised me that these much tougher enemies give less exp compared to their weaker variants.  :P  Here is what I suggest:

Wavy Skull Head: 70 exp
Rope: 50 exp
Red Fokka: 200 exp
Blue Fokka: 300 exp
Firebird: 500 exp
Bubble: 50/70 exp (slow/fast)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 05:34:49 pm by IcePenguin »

Vanya

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #643 on: March 05, 2019, 06:12:23 pm »
Just my 2 cents, but I prefer the more accurate Temple.
'Palace' always seemed wierd to me.

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #644 on: March 06, 2019, 01:25:44 pm »
Finished another full play through of Redux, and I have one last suggestion.  It's regarding enemy Exp in Great Palace.  It is much too low in comparison to other areas in the game, and it's rather underwhelming being the final area of the game and all.  Let's look at some enemies to compare:

Wavy Skull Head
Palace 1-6: 30 exp
Great Palace: 20 exp

Rope:
Palace 1-6: 20 exp
Great Palace: 20 exp

Red Iron Knuckle/Red Fokka
Palace 1-6: 100 exp
Great Palace: 70 exp

Blue Iron Knuckle/Blue Fokka
Palace 1-6: 150 exp
Great Palace: 100 exp

Firebird
Palace 1-6:
Great Palace: 200exp

Bubble Slow/Fast:
Palace 1-6: 20/30 exp
Great Palace: 20/20 exp

At this late in the game, it's most likely that the player will be 8-8-8, so they probably wouldn't care about exp, but these enemies should still give more Exp.  I'd say at least 3x more than what they currently give.  Even 2x more exp would be good.  It just surprised me that these much tougher enemies give less exp compared to their weaker variants.  :P  Here is what I suggest:

Wavy Skull Head: 70 exp
Rope: 50 exp
Red Fokka: 200 exp
Blue Fokka: 300 exp
Firebird: 500 exp
Bubble: 50/70 exp (slow/fast)

Went ahead and modified the following:
  • 0x0154F5 - Bago Bago bits - From 85 to 86 (20 -> 30)
  • 0x0154F6 - Jumping Rope bits - From 85 to 86 (20 -> 30)
  • 0x0154F7 - Moving Rope bits - From 85 to 86 (20 -> 30)
  • 0x0154F9 - Slow Bubble bits - From C5 to C7 (20 -> 50)
  • 0x0154FA - Fast Bubble bits - From C5 to C8 (20 -> 70)
  • 0x0154FB - Skull Head bits - From 55 to 47 (No longer steals exp, 20 -> 50)
  • 0x0154FE - Red Fokka bits - From 88 to 8B (70 -> 200)
  • 0x0154FF - Blue Fokka bits - From C9 to CC (100 -> 300)
  • 0x015502 - Firebird bits - Left as 8B (200)
I think the Firebird has a good amount of Exp, and it's not that hard to defeat once you get under his fireballs.
Let me know if these are okay :)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 02:12:46 pm by ShadowOne333 »

wolpak

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #645 on: March 06, 2019, 01:36:49 pm »
How feasible or possible is it to make it go 10/10/10?

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #646 on: March 06, 2019, 03:29:29 pm »
Went ahead and modified the following:
  • 0x0154F5 - Bago Bago bits - From 85 to 86 (20 -> 30)
  • 0x0154F6 - Jumping Rope bits - From 85 to 86 (20 -> 30)
  • 0x0154F7 - Moving Rope bits - From 85 to 86 (20 -> 30)
  • 0x0154F9 - Slow Bubble bits - From C5 to C7 (20 -> 50)
  • 0x0154FA - Fast Bubble bits - From C5 to C8 (20 -> 70)
  • 0x0154FB - Skull Head bits - From 55 to 47 (No longer steals exp, 20 -> 50)
  • 0x0154FE - Red Fokka bits - From 88 to 8B (70 -> 200)
  • 0x0154FF - Blue Fokka bits - From C9 to CC (100 -> 300)
  • 0x015502 - Firebird bits - Left as 8B (200)
I think the Firebird has a good amount of Exp, and it's not that hard to defeat once you get under his fireballs.
Let me know if these are okay :)

That seems good!  Firebird is good at default, I dunno why I suggested 500, that's quite a lot, ha ha!  The new changes to exp are much better than before.   :thumbsup:

How feasible or possible is it to make it go 10/10/10?

It's possible, but would take quite a lot of ASM to pull off.  Then you'd have to do a ton of re-balancing to account for the extra levels, then find room in the HUD to make the 3 extra digits fit.  It's quite limited already.  :P

To add more to the HUD, you'd probably have to sacrifice other elements of it.  If TOO much stuff is added to the HUD, you'll start seeing gfx issues.  I've expanded (health) hearts to 16, but had to greatly revamp the HUD to fit that many extra tiles, and then had change how the game calculates health per (bar) heart.  It was a lot of work just to expand one thing, so expanding the 3 stats, and everything affected by those 3 stats, would require much more.

Something like that would be better for a completely new, full hack of Zelda II.

IAmCaptPlanet

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #647 on: March 07, 2019, 01:40:14 pm »
if, and only if, you change all the references to temples/palaces uniform, i like the idea of them being called Temples all except the Great Palace, which in think should stay TGP.

it set's it apart from the others, and leaves it special.

AdamDravian

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #648 on: March 07, 2019, 02:45:26 pm »
if, and only if, you change all the references to temples/palaces uniform, i like the idea of them being called Temples all except the Great Palace, which in think should stay TGP.

it set's it apart from the others, and leaves it special.

I think that would set it too far apart from the others. You spend the game going through these various temples, and then you finish the game in the Great Temple. Makes sense. Calling it the Great Palace disconnects it from the others, making it seem like a different kind of place.

So although I disagree, I understand your attachment to "Great Palace." Nostalgia is a powerful thing.
Writer of the '80s-themed webcomic Satan Ninja 198X

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #649 on: March 07, 2019, 05:26:11 pm »
ShadowOne asked me about importing the battle theme from the FDS version of Zelda II, so I took a look at the music data for both.  After some experimenting, I successfully expanded music data to allow more songs!  (with help from optomon's music document)  I'm going to write up a detailed explanation of how to do this, but it may take a little more time to do so.  For now, here is a video showing the new battle theme!  For Redux, the FDS battle theme will be played in East Hyrule (as requested by ShadowOne), but I used it in West Hyrule just for the video.   :)
 
https://youtu.be/_htHVzRYjgM

itemdrop

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #650 on: March 07, 2019, 07:55:18 pm »
holy fn that is  :o amazing. insane stuff ice penguin.

Shade Aurion

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #651 on: March 08, 2019, 03:50:21 am »
ShadowOne asked me about importing the battle theme from the FDS version of Zelda II, so I took a look at the music data for both.  After some experimenting, I successfully expanded music data to allow more songs!  (with help from optomon's music document)  I'm going to write up a detailed explanation of how to do this, but it may take a little more time to do so.  For now, here is a video showing the new battle theme!  For Redux, the FDS battle theme will be played in East Hyrule (as requested by ShadowOne), but I used it in West Hyrule just for the video.   :)
 
https://youtu.be/_htHVzRYjgM

Nicely done! Jeez, this really is taking Zelda 2 to crazy new heights
You and ShadowOne333 make a great team
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 04:42:30 pm by Shade Aurion »

ultimaweapon

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #652 on: March 08, 2019, 10:22:14 am »
ShadowOne asked me about importing the battle theme from the FDS version of Zelda II, so I took a look at the music data for both.  After some experimenting, I successfully expanded music data to allow more songs!  (with help from optomon's music document)  I'm going to write up a detailed explanation of how to do this, but it may take a little more time to do so.  For now, here is a video showing the new battle theme!  For Redux, the FDS battle theme will be played in East Hyrule (as requested by ShadowOne), but I used it in West Hyrule just for the video.   :)
 
https://youtu.be/_htHVzRYjgM

IcePenguin - I've been trying to understand how it works with adding music, so if you share the info, I would be in debt to you.
Trust in the Heart of the Cards

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #653 on: March 08, 2019, 10:24:52 am »
ShadowOne asked me about importing the battle theme from the FDS version of Zelda II, so I took a look at the music data for both.  After some experimenting, I successfully expanded music data to allow more songs!  (with help from optomon's music document)  I'm going to write up a detailed explanation of how to do this, but it may take a little more time to do so.  For now, here is a video showing the new battle theme!  For Redux, the FDS battle theme will be played in East Hyrule (as requested by ShadowOne), but I used it in West Hyrule just for the video.   :)
 
https://youtu.be/_htHVzRYjgM

Man I gotta say it one more time, Z2 Redux wouldn't even be half as what it is right now if it weren't for you, Trax's and njosro's help.
I am forever in debt and very grateful to you all for the amazing info and work that you have shared towards this hack.

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart!

IcePenguin - I've been trying to understand how it works with adding music, so if you share the info, I would be in debt to you.

He said he will document everything once he has it in a more polished state :)
He will first document it all, and then post what he did in here I believe.
But he did said he will make a write up about it, which will greatly help with hacks like yours and maybe even Trax's :)

ultimaweapon

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #654 on: March 08, 2019, 10:31:11 am »
He said he will document everything once he has it in a more polished state :)
He will first document it all, and then post what he did in here I believe.
But he did said he will make a write up about it, which will greatly help with hacks like yours and maybe even Trax's :)

Yes I know ShadowOne and I am patient. But if you only knew how long I've been trying to figure it out. LOL
Trust in the Heart of the Cards

wolpak

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #655 on: March 08, 2019, 02:42:14 pm »
ShadowOne asked me about importing the battle theme from the FDS version of Zelda II, so I took a look at the music data for both.  After some experimenting, I successfully expanded music data to allow more songs!  (with help from optomon's music document)  I'm going to write up a detailed explanation of how to do this, but it may take a little more time to do so.  For now, here is a video showing the new battle theme!  For Redux, the FDS battle theme will be played in East Hyrule (as requested by ShadowOne), but I used it in West Hyrule just for the video.   :)
 
https://youtu.be/_htHVzRYjgM

Sick dance moves bro.

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #656 on: March 08, 2019, 04:37:13 pm »
Edit:
The document was uploaded!  :)  I submitted an update already, version 1.2, so be sure to get that when it's approved.  It adds a bunch of new info that was found over the weekend, and puts the document in a complete state.  It's around 27kb in size.

http://www.romhacking.net/documents/798/

Sorry it took so long to post the details, but I finally finished writing up the explanation for expanding music.   In the end, it turned out to be suuuuuper long!  It's like a full on document, so I ended up submitting it to RHDN for upload.  There was a lot to cover, and I don't think I could go over all of it within a single post, ha ha.  :P

ultimaweapon, I remember you were interested in how to change songs for areas, so this document will help you.  It's not a simple task, but I explained it as best I could.  So hopefully when it is uploaded, you'll find it useful!

ShadowOne, I'll create an IPS patch for Redux that plays the battle theme in East Hyrule.  That way you have it as part of the documentation and progress for Redux.  I'll send the IPS via email.  Be sure to check out the document, as well, if you want to learn more about music.

After spending time experimenting with music data, I think it'd be possible to have a unique song for every area of the game.  There is certainly plenty of free space!  When the file is uploaded, I'll post a link in this topic.  :)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 10:46:29 am by IcePenguin »

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #657 on: March 11, 2019, 12:02:39 pm »
Wow IcePenguin :o
The work put into the music hack is outstanding!

Just gave a read to the documentation, and damn it was a lot of work.
Hopefully more Zelda II hacks can make use of it, I know ultimaweapon might be happy :P
Hope this helps Trax's hack as well.

Thank you so much, IcePenguin!

I have already test out the hack and it's working fine so far :)
Updated the IPS in the link in the OP.
That IPS should have the FDS battle theme restored, but it will only be used in East Hyrule, while West Hyrule will keep the original NES battle theme.

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #658 on: March 11, 2019, 04:29:08 pm »
Thanks!  The document ended up covering a lot more than I thought it would, that's for sure!  It wasn't too much effort, though, because optomon provided most of the data in his document.  Not sure it would've gone so smoothly without his help!  Hopefully someone finds some use from it.

This whole thing kinda makes me wonder about some of the other differences between the FDS and NES versions...

SpringSonic9187

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #659 on: March 11, 2019, 05:38:30 pm »
This whole thing kinda makes me wonder about some of the other differences between the FDS and NES versions...
Name it your best friend: https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences