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What should the new name for the "Spell" spell be?

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Total Members Voted: 23

Author Topic: Zelda II Redux  (Read 141234 times)

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #600 on: February 28, 2019, 06:29:01 pm »
Dialog looks a lot more polished!   :thumbsup:  There are a few remaining things for dialog that need to be addressed.

Spoiler:
"YOU ARE A HERO FOR SAVING MY CHILD. PLEASE, COME INSIDE."

Uses 7 lines and doesn't fit, glitching the bottom of the text box.  Try "PLEASE, FOLLOW ME." instead.



"I DON'T HAVE MORE TO TELL YOU.  GO, AND TAKE CARE."

"TEACH" instead of "TELL"



"LET ME BE!  THE HOUSE MASTER IS AT A FOREST NORTH OF THE RIVER."

"IN" instead of "AT"

I would've mentioned these previously, but didn't notice it.  :P

This enemy placement can be done with an editor.  I can do it real quick, and provide the exact bytes to change.  Also, to add text to the final sign in Old Kasuto, we'll probably just have to expand the enemy data for that screen, so we don't have to replace a Moa.  I'll report back the progress on those.

As for the unused windows, I'll look into it!  Actually, all the stuff mentioned in that link is really interesting.  I've seen the gfx for the spikes while tile editing, but it always confused me.  I had no idea they were spikes, ha ha.  Not sure if they can be inserted easily with an editor, they might need some changes to the tile mappings.  I'll let you know what I find.  ;)

Edit:

Basilisk.  At 0x89DF, replace 70 D8 with 7D 98.  This will move the Basilisk to the left, preventing it from doing that weird screen wrap upon entry.  (the cave north of Nabooru)

Moa.  At 0x8A2F, replace 60 06 with 40 06.  This will move the Moa up, preventing a forced hit on Link.  (Path of Fire entrance, by the graveyard)

Edit:

Repointed the enemy data for the last scene in Old Kasuto.  Added an object for the sign, so now it has text.

At 0xC5DB, replace F0 70 with 90 73.

At 0xCC40, paste: 13 78 06 76 21 5A 06 68 46 5A 46 68 86 5A 86 68 C6 78 C6

76 21 is the new sign object, and all the original Moas are untouched.


February 28, 2019, 08:47:34 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

To add the windows to Palace 4 and 6, you'd simply need to repoint the data for any room you want to have them.  I went ahead and added some windows to two rooms in Palace 4, and more in Palace 6.  Not many, though, since not every room needs windows.  Here is an image from Palace 4 and 6 to see how they look:  (visit Palace 6 to see the rest)





Paste the following code at these addresses: (these are pointers for level data)
0x12022 = 41 A5
0x12052 = 41 A5
0x12060 = 8D A7
0x12066 = 6B A7
0x1207A = 65 A5
0x12088 = 41 A5

Next, at 0x12539, paste this code:

18 60 80 13 45 00 44 00 89 05 4A 00 44 00 07 F1 B0 71 F0 50 48 00 44 00 24 60 00 10 45 00 44 00 D4 0E DC 00 43 00 44 00 63 02 D1 0E 03 F1 B0 71 F0 50 84 05 D1 00 60 01 43 00 44 00 1E 60 0E 10 E1 00 D0 08 60 01 43 00 49 00 63 02 D1 0E D6 08 60 01 43 00 49 00 63 02 D1 0E

Finally, at 0x1276A, paste this code:

11 60 80 12 BF 70 44 00 49 00 B4 70 8D 05 99 0F 05 22 60 00 10 48 00 67 09 80 C2 44 00 67 09 80 C2 44 00 67 09 80 C2 B3 A3 41 00 67 09 80 C2 44 00 15 B9 2A 60 0E 10 D2 08 46 00 D4 0E D6 80 B2 F7 41 00 B1 71 43 00 45 09 60 71 D2 0E 87 05 D3 0C D2 02 10 2F 20 71 D2 04 D2 06 1C 23

These chunks of code are data for rooms in Palace 4 and 6.  The level design is exactly the same as the original, but now they have windows!  If you want to add more to other rooms, simply change the pointers for level data, and add the new layout to the end of the data in free space.

I recommend using njosro's editor to do this.

His editor has a built in feature to repoint level data, so you can easily add windows to your heart's content!  The ones I added seems like a good amount, but if you'd rather place them elsewhere, or in different rooms, at least you know it's easy to do.   :happy:


March 01, 2019, 02:27:47 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

Here is something else that could improve the animation of the lava on the world map.  I noticed the lava was using the same animation as the water, and that just looked weird.  So I made this "boiling/fire" animation, which is much better suited for lava.  :)

Here is an GIF showing it in action:

Spoiler:

And here are the tiles you need to make this animation.  You only have to draw 4 tiles, then place them in the right order for each frame.

Spoiler:

Next step is to change the tile mapping for the lava.

At 0x7DB, replace 6E 6E 6E 6E with:  A7 A8 A9 AA

Finally, do you remember the fix for the glitchy world map tiles when you saved and returned to the title screen?  We have to do that for this, as well.  In the previous picture, the tiles circled in red should be empty.  This is in the first bank used for the title screen.  I placed the lava in those positions because these are unused and safe to edit.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 02:58:53 am by IcePenguin »

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #601 on: March 01, 2019, 11:34:58 am »
Oh wow IcePenguin, you really went above and beyond with these changes.

First of all, the text changes are now done :)
Thanks for those last three dialogue changes, the script should be completely done!

I also went ahead and implemented the enemy changes you made for the Moa and the Basilisk, and man those palace windows!
I'm happy with the ones you inserted, I just wanted a couple few rooms to have them, just to have the unused window graphic back in there somehow :) Thank you!

I do have a couple of questions:

Repointed the enemy data for the last scene in Old Kasuto.  Added an object for the sign, so now it has text.

At 0xC5DB, replace F0 70 with 90 73.

At 0xCC40, paste: 13 78 06 76 21 5A 06 68 46 5A 46 68 86 5A 86 68 C6 78 C6

76 21 is the new sign object, and all the original Moas are untouched.

I don't quite get what this change does.
Old Kasuto has a sign that doesn't have any text for it?
What would this change do?
And most importantly, what text would this sign point to?

Here is something else that could improve the animation of the lava on the world map.  I noticed the lava was using the same animation as the water, and that just looked weird.  So I made this "boiling/fire" animation, which is much better suited for lava.  :)

Here is an GIF showing it in action:

Spoiler:

And here are the tiles you need to make this animation.  You only have to draw 4 tiles, then place them in the right order for each frame.

Spoiler:

Next step is to change the tile mapping for the lava.

At 0x7DB, replace 6E 6E 6E 6E with:  A7 A8 A9 AA

Finally, do you remember the fix for the glitchy world map tiles when you saved and returned to the title screen?  We have to do that for this, as well.  In the previous picture, the tiles circled in red should be empty.  This is in the first bank used for the title screen.  I placed the lava in those positions because these are unused and safe to edit.
Man those lava tiles look awesome :)
I already implemented them without issues into Redux!
I just have one slight suggestion for these ones.
Perhaps adding some sort of left-right animation every 2 frames into the pixels below and above the lava bubble would make it look vivid.
Right now, only the bubbles move, but the rest of the pixels above and below the bubble look kinda flat, perhaps moving them right and then left every two frames could make it look as if it is slowly moving lava.

Let me know what do you think :)
I have some ideas for it.

AdamDravian

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #602 on: March 01, 2019, 12:24:58 pm »
For this new line:

"LET ME BE!  THE HOUSE MASTER IS IN A FOREST NORTH OF THE RIVER."

Perhaps "THE HOUSE'S MASTER" or "THIS HOUSE'S MASTER" would sound a little more natural, if there's room. But perhaps the slightly odd phrasing is fitting, since I believe it's a monster that says this line.
Writer of the '80s-themed webcomic Satan Ninja 198X

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #603 on: March 01, 2019, 12:46:33 pm »
I don't quite get what this change does.
Old Kasuto has a sign that doesn't have any text for it?
What would this change do?
And most importantly, what text would this sign point to?

I just have one slight suggestion for these ones.
Perhaps adding some sort of left-right animation every 2 frames into the pixels below and above the lava bubble would make it look vivid.
Right now, only the bubbles move, but the rest of the pixels above and below the bubble look kinda flat, perhaps moving them right and then left every two frames could make it look as if it is slowly moving lava.

Let me know what do you think :)
I have some ideas for it.

Glad you like the windows!  Be sure to run through Palace 6 to see the other rooms with windows.  ;)  Also, if I notice any other dialog oddities, I'll report them.

About the sign, the original game had no text for the final sign in Old Kasuto.  Normally, every town has text for it's entry sign, and exit sign.  (the one at the end of the town)  Old Kasuto did not have this.  So the change just adds text to the sign, and it's the same text as you see at the beginning of the town, like normal.

I made some new lava tiles based on your feedback.  I tested a slow moving lava effect, but it didn't look good.  Try these out instead.  Let me know what you think! 



Remember to place them in the right order for each frame.  ;)

Edit:

Here is another suggestion.  Change the palette of the large fences in East Hyrule.  They are the same color as Link's outline and it doesn't look right.  If anything, make them darker, or a different color brown.

Spoiler:
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 01:03:13 pm by IcePenguin »

IAmCaptPlanet

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #604 on: March 01, 2019, 01:22:50 pm »
that lava reminds me of Subrosia in Oracle of Seasons, NICE!

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #605 on: March 01, 2019, 01:56:52 pm »
Already implemented the Old Kasuto sign object hack :)

I made some new lava tiles based on your feedback.  I tested a slow moving lava effect, but it didn't look good.  Try these out instead.  Let me know what you think! 



Looks neat!
Although, for the movement of the lava I meant something like 2 frames between each change.
The bubble like it is, is just perfect, the pixels above I tried to make them look like they move slower.
Try it out and let me know if you have any suggestions for it, I feel like it can still be improved a bit:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5dbq6pl321fj2dh/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

Simply enable the walk through all in the overworld code and go directly to it :P

Here is another suggestion.  Change the palette of the large fences in East Hyrule.  They are the same color as Link's outline and it doesn't look right.  If anything, make them darker, or a different color brown.

Spoiler:

AH!
I thought no one would mention this!
Finally someone does :P
I noticed it way earlier, right when I made the palette change for Link, but kinda let it aside.

I have these two mockups at the moment, which one do you guys like the best?
In order:

Original - Mockup #1 - Mockup #2 - Mockup #3



I cannot go for a darker tone of red or brown, since 06, 07 and 08 are the most dark tones for them.
If you want to give them a quick try, open FCEUX's Hex editor, go to PPU Data and then go to the very last addresses, you will see something like [17 07 08], you can edit those ones to test how they might look without changing the hex addresses directly.
Personally, I kinda like Mockup #3, but I'm all up for suggestions.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 02:12:39 pm by ShadowOne333 »

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #606 on: March 01, 2019, 02:13:49 pm »
Your idea looks great for the lava.  I was about to post that I didn't like the new one I did because it was too sporadic for lava.  Bubbling lava shouldn't move too much, and what you did looks great!  Good team effort, ha ha.  :)

For some feedback on your fences, not really a fan of either mock-up for the fence.  The yellow is too bright, and the first one doesn't seem any different.  Have you tried adding black to the palette?  If black is not something you like, I think the yellow mock-up is the best of the two you did.

Spoiler:

Edit:

3rd one is good!

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #607 on: March 01, 2019, 02:15:36 pm »
Your idea looks great for the lava.  I was about to post that I didn't like the new one I did because it was too sporadic for lava.  Bubbling lava shouldn't move too much, and what you did looks great!  Good team effort, ha ha.  :)

For some feedback on your fences, not really a fan of either mock-up for the fence.  The yellow is too bright, and the first one doesn't seem any different.  Have you tried adding black to the palette?  If black is not something you like, I think the yellow mock-up is the best of the two you did.

Spoiler:

Check the third one I added.
I think it's the best so far.


IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #608 on: March 01, 2019, 02:17:32 pm »
Ah that looks good!  Didn't see it when I posted last.  :P

Edit:

If you still think the lava needs improvement, try this.  It doesn't move the pixels as you suggested, but it alternates them, giving it the slow lava effect.  The less movement the better for lava.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 02:39:14 pm by IcePenguin »

Vanya

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #609 on: March 01, 2019, 02:52:15 pm »


I vote for this one. It has the best balance of light and shadow.

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #610 on: March 01, 2019, 02:55:40 pm »
The new tiles for the lava look great! They're added now. :)

Also, I just noticed, but if I change the palette for that particular part of the wooden fence, other forest sections get modified as well.

For Western Hyrule, this particular palette is found at 0x4062, and for Western Hyrule it's at 0x8062 with [0F 17 07 08].
If I change it to what I modified it to (27 18 08), then other parts like when you encounter an enemy in a forest get modified too.
Try it in Western Hyrule just above the fence tile, encounter an enemy in a forest tile and you will see the ground is no longer red-ish like it was, it is now brown all around.
I am not sure if I should keep it with the original colour, but invert the pixels of the tiles for the wooden fence, or modify it and sacrifice the red earth xD

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #611 on: March 01, 2019, 03:17:31 pm »
Hmm, interesting dilemma.  I wouldn't invert the pixels of the fence, because that will then affect the trees.  I would say sacrifice the red ground.  You can still make the ground look good, and it's still unique from what exists in West Hyrule, so it's not that big of a deal.  To fix the issue with the fence, it seems worth it.   :thumbsup:

Edit:

Still some issue with the dialog.

"I DON'T HAVE MORE TO TEACH YOU.  GO, AND TAKE CARE."

There is no line break after "TEACH" so the text goes outside the text box, and some of them still say "TELL".  I believe there are 2 instances of this text, used by different wise men?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 04:13:26 pm by IcePenguin »

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #612 on: March 01, 2019, 04:33:56 pm »
Yeah there's two instances of that same text :P
Though I never thought they were used by two different wise man.
It's something good to know.
Perhaps I can save up some space by making both pointers point to the same text, instead of having two pointers for two different texts.

What do you think?
Btw, patch has been updated with the palette changes. :)

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #613 on: March 01, 2019, 05:09:16 pm »
Perhaps they could say something different, to add a bit of variety?  Do all wise men say the same thing in the original game?  Might be something worth considering.

The new palette looks great!  I actually like the ground better than the original.  :P

ShadowOne333

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #614 on: March 01, 2019, 05:13:52 pm »
Perhaps they could say something different, to add a bit of variety?  Do all wise men say the same thing in the original game?  Might be something worth considering.

The new palette looks great!  I actually like the ground better than the original.  :P

In the US release, they do say something different.
However in the Japanese release, they say exactly the same thing:

Quote
I CANNOT | モウオマエニ オシエ          | I don’t have anything
HELP YOU | ルコトハナイ                      | more to tell you. Go,
ANYMORE. | キヲツケテイキナサイ{END}  | and take care of yourself.
GO NOW.  |


YOU KNOW  | モウオマエニ オシエ          | I don’t have anything
ALL I CAN    | ルコトハナイ                      | more to tell you. Go,
TEACH YOU.| キヲツケテイキナサイ{END}  | and take care of yourself.
GO.            |

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #615 on: March 01, 2019, 08:22:41 pm »
I've always disliked that forest ground sprite I mean its not awful but the lighter fence palette some how make it look better.

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #616 on: March 01, 2019, 09:40:44 pm »
For the Wise Men telling you to GTFO, I'd say more variety in dialog is better for sure.

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #617 on: March 02, 2019, 11:26:51 am »
Found a "bug" on the title screen.  It appears you made a hole in the mountain, and the scrolling text can appear through it.  I'm guessing you did it to round the corners of the mountain?  Here is an image showing the tile in question.  It's just one tile:



The left most tile has transparent pixels in it.  This tile is used for the corners on the mountain, but there is a single tile in the center that uses it, as well, allowing the text to show.  I'd fill the hole in with black, since it's in the palette.  :)

Edit:

Did one final check for all dialog, for anything missed that could still be improved.  Here are a few more suggestions I think would make the game feel more polished.  Some hints could be a bit more detailed, providing better direction for the player.

Spoiler:
"GET THE CANDLE IN PARAPA, GO EAST TO THE NEXT TEMPLE."

Find the candle in the parapa desert temple. Go north east.

This one is more in line with what the lady says at the town entrance.  About going north to the tunnel.



"USE THIS MAGIC TO SURVIVE THE TEMPLE AT PARAPA DESERT."

"IN" instead of "AT"



"USE TEMPLE KEYS IN TEMPLES WHERE THEY ARE FOUND."

Use keys in the temples where they are found.



"YOU FOUND A MIRROR UNDER THE TABLE."

Move "A" to the next line for better spacing.



"THERE ARE A PAIR OF SACRED GLOVES AT MIDORO SWAMP."

The temple in Midoro Swamp has a pair of sacred gloves.

Normally, there is no clue about which swamp is Midoro Swamp.  By changing this, player's will know which swamp it is, because of the temple.



"ONLY SARIA TOWNSFOLK CAN CROSS THIS RIVER."

"MAY" instead of "CAN" just to have consistency with his follow up text.



"THE RAFT IS AT THE ISLE TEMPLE TO THE SOUTH."

"IN" instead of "AT"



"THE DOOR WILL NOT OPEN.  IT'S AWFULLY QUIET."

Something I didn't notice before.  A lady in Mido town says a bell always tolls, but that contradicts this text.  I believe the original game mentions the bell ringing.  Perhaps make it more in line with that?



"THE WALL READS... A TEMPLE LIES AT THE FAR EAST OF NABOORU."

"TO" instead of "AT"



"EVERYONE FLED FROM KASUTO."

Perhaps add some lore to this?  Why did they flee?

Everyone fled from Kasuto when the minions of Ganon attacked.



"A HEART CONTAINER IS ON THE SHORE EAST OF TRIPLE EYE ROCK."

"BY" instead of "ON"



"CALL TO THE TEMPLE AT THE THREE EYE ROCKS IN THE DESERT."

This dialog and the previous one, both mention the same place, but with different names.  Make them both the same.  Use either "THREE EYE ROCK"  or  "TRIPLE EYE ROCK"

Edit:

At 0x2836, replace 8D 96 07 with:

20 00 AD

At 0x2CA0, paste this code:

Spoiler:
A9 00 CD 96 07 F0 39 A9 02 CD 96 07 F0 32 A9 04 CD 96 07 F0 2B A9 06 CD 96 07 F0 24 A9 10 CD 96 07 F0 1D A9 12 CD 96 07 F0 16 A9 14 CD 96 07 F0 0F A9 16 CD 96 07 F0 08 60 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF A9 01 CD 9D 07 D0 25 A9 06 CD 61 05 D0 1E A9 00 CD 44 07 D0 03 EE 96 07 A9 02 CD 44 07 D0 03 EE 96 07 A9 01 CD 44 07 D0 03 EE 96 07 60

At 0x2D10, paste this code:  8D 96 07 A9 01 8D 9D 07 60

Updated the automatic Saria Bridge hack.  The code is a lot more efficient and uses LESS space!  :)  I changed the original post with the new code, but here is a quote highlighting what's different.  Remove all the old code first at 0x2CA0 and 0x2D70, and paste the new code at 0x2CA0 and 0x2D10.

Edit:

Here is another suggestion:  With the recent changes to the palette for the fence, and trees, it'd be good to redraw the small tree stumps in the forest around Bagu's house.  They are very bright now, and it doesn't look good.  :P
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 03:06:39 pm by IcePenguin »

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #618 on: March 03, 2019, 12:31:05 am »
The misinterpretation of the sentence on where to go AFTER you get the candle is the kind of thing that should get you Gannon Banned. Come on, it's an old trope. The text is cut into two parts: get the candle in Parapa. THEN, go west. It makes sense. The west is towards the LEFT on a map (assuming North is up). In the Japanese version, the sentence implies that one thing happens after the other:

パラパノ シンデンデ
ローソクヲ トッタラ
ニシノ トンネルカラ
ツギノシンデンニユケ

parapa no shinden de
roosoku o tottara
nishi no tonneru kara
tsugi no shinden ni yuke


Other than that, I wonder if Link is never supposed to talk, as it's been the rule since... forever? Using "I" would then be contraindicated. This means "I found a mirror under the table" is prohibited, and maybe, if we stretch a little, the sign at the entrance of abandoned Kasuto. It's like Link himself is saying "strange... it is deserted", because it would be weird that someone actually wrote this on the sign. It seems like nitpicking, but hey. The Japanese version does about the same thing.

By the way, instead of changing the individual color codes in the palettes for backgrounds to have a better palissade color (with the rock-throwing Lizalfos), can't we just use another set of palettes for this particular area? There are 8 different palettes sets that we can choose from, per region. Well, 9 if we count the one for caves without the Candle.

IcePenguin

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Re: Zelda II Redux
« Reply #619 on: March 03, 2019, 01:04:33 am »
The misinterpretation of the sentence on where to go AFTER you get the candle is the kind of thing that should get you Gannon Banned. Come on, it's an old trope. The text is cut into two parts: get the candle in Parapa. THEN, go west. It makes sense. The west is towards the LEFT on a map (assuming North is up). In the Japanese version, the sentence implies that one thing happens after the other:

パラパノ シンデンデ
ローソクヲ トッタラ
ニシノ トンネルカラ
ツギノシンデンニユケ

parapa no shinden de
roosoku o tottara
nishi no tonneru kara
tsugi no shinden ni yuke


Other than that, I wonder if Link is never supposed to talk, as it's been the rule since... forever? Using "I" would then be contraindicated. This means "I found a mirror under the table" is prohibited, and maybe, if we stretch a little, the sign at the entrance of abandoned Kasuto. It's like Link himself is saying "strange... it is deserted", because it would be weird that someone actually wrote this on the sign. It seems like nitpicking, but hey. The Japanese version does about the same thing.

By the way, instead of changing the individual color codes in the palettes for backgrounds to have a better palissade color (with the rock-throwing Lizalfos), can't we just use another set of palettes for this particular area? There are 8 different palettes sets that we can choose from, per region. Well, 9 if we count the one for caves without the Candle.

Ah, I was never aware of that for the candle text.  To be fair, the English text does say: "GET CANDLE IN PARAPA PALACE. GO WEST."  Having no "then" can drastically change its meaning, and I always just read it as directions for where the candle is - also assuming "west" was just a typo in direction.  :P  Now I understand what it was really tying to say! 

You bring up some good points about Link not talking.  Those suggestions were made based on that Link never talks.  So if those changes are implemented, the sign in Old Kasuto should be changed, as well.  However, it could be seen as sort of a narration text.  In Link's Awakening, the sign to the forest reads: "Mysterious Forest (It's a little bit mysterious.)"

About the palette, that's probably the best solution!  Just changing the palette for the scene could make the whole issue with the fence easily resolved.  No need for modifying at palette at all.


March 03, 2019, 08:24:17 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

Trax suggested changing the palette of the scene, so I did some experimenting with it.  Doing it this way will have less repercussions and a bunch of things won't be affected by modifying the colors in the palette.  I tested the palette of every scene type (castle, grass, desert, swamp, etc.), but only 1 of them looked good.  It was the graveyard.  Here is an image showing the fence scene using the graveyard palette, instead of the original forest palette:

Spoiler:

At 0x8F97, change 60 to 70.

You can try out the various other scene types, but the graveyard was the best I think.  Plus, using the graveyard scene fits well with the location - there IS a graveyard nearby!  If you decide to do this, remember to change the forest palette back to normal.  :P

« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 08:25:59 pm by IcePenguin »