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Author Topic: [Utility] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife  (Read 7481 times)

bogaabogaa

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Re: [New Tool] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2018, 05:13:27 pm »
If you plan to work on palette options. I think it could be a good idea to have a import window showing up that shows you the table of content that will be pull form the PNG/whatever and options to arrange them. Like arranging palette order for a example. Your idea to import palette files sounds nice but figuring out the palette files of tools that are out there that will have to many colors anyway and may be complicated to work around with.. I get a headache just think about how it will pull palette files and what it will to with them. I think the focus should go to options for the user to ingrate them into the platform they try to put it on.

Spoiler:

Squall_FF8

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Re: [New Tool] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2018, 09:04:09 pm »
So far I have added import/export to:
 - Photoshop .aco
 - Photoshop .act
 - zSnes save-states (.zs?)
The only planned operation left is make a Reverse of a palette (first color became last and so on).

I like your idea bogaabogaa, a preview of imported palettes and possible selection/rearrangement of what to import. If you have a vision of how that may look, could share it?
Also if you have suggestions on what option/operation to implement in order to 'options for the user to ingrate them into the platform they try to put it on' feel free to get into details.

bogaabogaa

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Re: [New Tool] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2018, 04:10:01 pm »
I really like that you are able to import palettes. And when they are in order there is no reason to work on different options. If you like to have a tool standalone tool I think it would be nice to read color of the import medium (PNG/bmp..) view the palette with the options to arrange them. This could be done with overlaying the number like they are in the ROM and bpp format they need to match. If the user had the same palette as they been for the old graphic it should also fit. This would be easy to understand by the user even if he doesn't understand palettes and that they are stored in the ROM somewhere.
When you get to implement importing options. I always had imagine a tool that would let you export graphic data but remember the location on the ROM. You would be able to create a sheet with the graphic you like to change and you are able to arrange them to your liking in there. Export the created sheet as PNG/.. and make the changes. Then import it again and have them finding the right place in ROM if you click import. Then you have just to focus  on the things you changed form the ground up and the palettes. Donno how much work such a arranger tool with extra space would be. But this is the best thing I could imagine right now

Squall_FF8

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Re: [New Tool] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2018, 10:08:28 am »
When you get to implement importing options. I always had imagine a tool that would let you export graphic data but remember the location on the ROM. You would be able to create a sheet with the graphic you like to change and you are able to arrange them to your liking in there. Export the created sheet as PNG/.. and make the changes. Then import it again and have them finding the right place in ROM if you click import.
Let say I have 3 graphics in the tool. When I export graphic data - should I export all of 3 or only the one marked in the list? Or to make it more general, when exporting data for editing and after importing it in the ROM, is this will operation over 1 image or multiple (list) at a time?

BTW I thought a lot about 'importing in a ROM' thing. As I said then - if we don't change the size it is not easy, but doable. So I though that if we are working with non-compressed data that should be the case. When the data is compressed then that is completely different story ( you never what output of the compression algorithm will produce). So why not, lets do it, but will be for versions after 3.2, because I have already specified what new things will come  :beer:

bogaabogaa

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Re: [New Tool] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2018, 03:20:51 pm »
Hey I did overthink it a bit too. The idea with a arranger plus exporting option is not necessary in my opinion since there are some tools that do that kind of job better anyway and it would be a ton of work to implement. I think it would be great if you could mark the named addresses you like to export. Also the importing option should just be easy to understand. As I said importing with the option to arrange palettes of the importing file is the thing I wished the most for in my past. But I did not do much graphic work in the past wished more experienced people would bring up ideas too.   

Squall_FF8

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Re: [New Tool] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2018, 09:42:05 am »
Version 3.2 is out!!!
 - New BPP: 4BPP (SNES-FX). Yes that is the format Super-FX uses!

 - New feature: Export of a palette to zSnes savestate (.zst, .zs?).
 - New feature: Import/Export of a palette from Photoshop Color File (.aco).
 - New feature: Import/Export of a palette from Photoshop Color Table (.act).

 - New functionality: Context menu for the List of graphics
 - New functionality: Speed buttons for the List of graphics
 - New feature: Sort of the List (ascended order)
 - New feature: Manual order of the List trough two commands Up/Down
 - New feature: Add a new graphics from the end of a selected one. Neat feature to add 'next' graphics, when they are one after another in memory

 - Bug-fixes: when you choose 'New' the old image stays on screen
 - Bug-fixes: when you choose 'New' the old name of the documents stay in title-bar

*Download from the first post.

Although there are so many new things, one of the coolest new features is the ability to read SNES Super-FX images. Big thanks to noisercross for his help to understand and implement it! Now I hope the few titles that uses that chip will get more love (Yoshi Island, Star Fox, ...)

Proof of concept:



Fire-WSP

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Re: [New Tool] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2018, 09:50:53 am »
Uh how nice!
Do you also have the offsets for the Bowser Endboss GFX in Yoshis Island 2?
 

Squall_FF8

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Re: [New Tool] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2018, 10:01:58 am »
Hi Fire-WSP :)

Unfortunately I'm not familiar with internals of the game. I was lucky that Super-FX Gfx was not compressed. But I think the rest are compressed, because if I remember correctly, I made a scan for 4/8 bpp in that ROM but found nothing.

bogaabogaa

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Re: [Utiity] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2018, 07:13:09 pm »
Hey your SAK Swiss tile cuter coming along nicely. SNES tiles can come along with 8 palettes for bg 1-4. And 8 more for pbj.. was thinking it would be nice to be able to save 8 (may be more) palette address for each tile sheet. Can't wait to see the import future coming  :)

I still think future changes may change the saving format quiet a bit so I will not put much work in. But I like to hear when you think it is save to start with a whole ROM.



Luzern GrĂ¼sst

Squall_FF8

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Re: [Utiity] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2018, 07:43:27 pm »
Hey your SAK Swiss tile cuter coming along nicely. SNES tiles can come along with 8 palettes for bg 1-4. And 8 more for pbj.. was thinking it would be nice to be able to save 8 (may be more) palette address for each tile sheet. Can't wait to see the import future coming  :)
Thank you bogaabogaa!

I still think future changes may change the saving format quiet a bit so I will not put much work in. But I like to hear when you think it is save to start with a whole ROM.
That is excellent question!
In version 3 format file format will be the same. The change should come in version 4 - I have planned to add tile-map, which will require a serious file format change. That's one of the reason I'm not in hurry to implemented it. I'm still thinking in spawning a second file that will contain the map. This way the compatibility with version 3 will be 100%. On the other hand people don't like much to have couple of file for a single project, so if you guys can share your opinion that will help me to decide :)

bogaabogaa

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Re: [Utiity] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2018, 02:50:22 am »
I have planned to add tile-map, which will require a serious file format changes if you guys can share your opinion that will help me to decide :)

I think you may be on the point you see the scope of the project. May be the save file format could need some rearrangement to make implementing stuff easier in the future. You never know when you return and like to add something. I would go with a clean one save file. But I guess you have the most projects open with SAK so it may hurt you the most. Depending on how you implement tile maps a standalone file format could also be just the better choice. Like if you could dump the file as it is in a ROM to be edited with a hex-editor too. I also still have to learn how the SNES handles tile maps. I can only speak for tools like pyxel edit or Pro motion. This tools make it easy to import tile maps of a grafik/PNG to edit. When it comes to tools like thiny that is used to make table files and hex edit text in games. Sure many people like to see a more versatile tool there too. I don't know about general purpose tile map editors.. are there some? If it is hard to decide go the easier way because it may not matter in the end anyway.

shadow501

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Re: [Utiity] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2018, 06:32:31 am »
Nice tool Keep up, Can you support PSX Graphics also ?

Squall_FF8

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Re: [Utiity] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2018, 03:56:08 pm »
I also still have to learn how the SNES handles tile maps.
I'm glad that you are improving your knowledge on SNES. Tile-maps are like a grid (or array) where each cell contain a TileID, PaletteID and some other info.

Nice tool Keep up, Can you support PSX Graphics also ?
Thank you.
Yes I would love to add some PSX Graphics. That is why I asked so many questions about BOF3 :D
The archive that you shared has some info, so I'm eager to try some.

Meeptroid

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Re: [Utiity] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2018, 07:07:31 pm »
This honestly looks to be a great utility for editing graphics. I do however have a bit of a question. Do NES graphics work in this, or is that something that would theoretically need to be added? I'm honestly interested to see NES support with this.

bogaabogaa

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Re: [Utiity] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2018, 06:22:41 am »
Good point I was thinking Snes 2bpp are the same but they are not. I would like to see NES 2bpp supported too. Question is 1bpp use for text sometimes? Not sure if that should be added too.

shadow501

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Re: [Utiity] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2018, 09:46:45 am »
I'm glad that you are improving your knowledge on SNES. Tile-maps are like a grid (or array) where each cell contain a TileID, PaletteID and some other info.
Thank you.
Yes I would love to add some PSX Graphics. That is why I asked so many questions about BOF3 :D
The archive that you shared has some info, so I'm eager to try some.

Wow wonderful!, I have many games I want see graphics and sprites, Like BOF3+4, Arc the led, Suikoden 1&2   ::)

Good luck !!  :D

Squall_FF8

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Re: [Utiity] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2018, 12:48:01 pm »
This honestly looks to be a great utility for editing graphics. I do however have a bit of a question. Do NES graphics work in this, or is that something that would theoretically need to be added? I'm honestly interested to see NES support with this.
Thank you!
I expect that at least 2bp/4bpp will work for NES titles, but I have never tried :(
Could you guys help me to test, by providing a NES title with specific addresses of graphics and their BPP, please?


Good point I was thinking Snes 2bpp are the same but they are not. I would like to see NES 2bpp supported too. Question is 1bpp use for text sometimes? Not sure if that should be added too.
Hehe, I was thinking the same: SNES 2bpp = NES 2bpp ...  ;D
In my experience 1bpp is used for fonts only, but I can't speak for all games. On top of that the games I know the best use not a normal 8x8 tile, but 8x12 ...


Wow wonderful!, I have many games I want see graphics and sprites, Like BOF3+4, Arc the led, Suikoden 1&2   ::)
Lets start a little and go up step by step. For start graphics must not be compressed. I hope that PSX lean more to modern hardware and uses linear (no tiles, no bit-planes) way to store the images. So similar to NES - if you guys know a PSX tittle that has uncompressed graphics, please share: Title, the file in the CD, the address in the file and of course the BPP

shadow501

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Re: [Utiity] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2018, 07:10:58 pm »

Lets start a little and go up step by step. For start graphics must not be compressed. I hope that PSX lean more to modern hardware and uses linear (no tiles, no bit-planes) way to store the images. So similar to NES - if you guys know a PSX tittle that has uncompressed graphics, please share: Title, the file in the CD, the address in the file and of course the BPP

If you mean PSX Graphics tools, Maybe that is will help you ?

https://code.google.com/archive/p/tim2view/


samurai goroh

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Re: [Utiity] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2018, 09:28:43 am »
Thank you!
I expect that at least 2bp/4bpp will work for NES titles, but I have never tried :(
Could you guys help me to test, by providing a NES title with specific addresses of graphics and their BPP, please?

 Hehe, I was thinking the same: SNES 2bpp = NES 2bpp ...  ;D
In my experience 1bpp is used for fonts only, but I can't speak for all games. On top of that the games I know the best use not a normal 8x8 tile, but 8x12 ...

Lets start a little and go up step by step. For start graphics must not be compressed. I hope that PSX lean more to modern hardware and uses linear (no tiles, no bit-planes) way to store the images. So similar to NES - if you guys know a PSX tittle that has uncompressed graphics, please share: Title, the file in the CD, the address in the file and of course the BPP

Hi there Squall, while I don't believe I have used graphics outside of the SNES, I used to use the following document that briefly describes how the info is stored:
https://mrclick.zophar.net/TilEd/download/consolegfx.txt
I'm the best in the universe, remember that [F-zero X]

bogaabogaa

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Re: [Utiity] Visual SAK - Visual Swiss Army Knife
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2018, 06:34:20 pm »
Just a quick idea. You have width, height and offset. Would one more slider make sense so you could snip of code that not belongs to the graphic? Like data length. Or is this a lot of work. I was just thinking this could be good to have and would make importing less painful.

Mode7-2 works great. Don't even know what Mode7-1 is xD



Keep it up you are awsome!!