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Author Topic: Metroid: Space Complex (Metroid 1 NES Hack WIP)  (Read 46703 times)

Mindflower

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Re: Metroid: Space Complex (Metroid 1 NES Hack WIP)
« Reply #180 on: October 06, 2019, 08:41:43 am »
My argument for the 1st image is because the colors are bright in the 2nd and 3rd examples, they draw attention more whereas in the 1st, a background image being slightly duller doesn't distract from what is in the foreground. That way you can have brighter colors in the plain you're actually traversing, for power-ups, enemies, etc without worrying about it being confused with the background. The foreground should be highlighted and the background should frame it. This is the way things work in the majority of games for exactly this reason but nevertheless, this is just my subjective opinion. I just thought i'd expand on why ^_^

Thanks a lot for your insight on that! :)
For the foreground pillar things I like the 2nd color scheme best because it gives the best contrast, whereas for the background trees I like the darker scheme best as you said because it makes the foreground stand out better.
My initial idea was to have one shared palette for all those things, maybe I make it two different ones.
Colors on NES are a pain in the a**, especially because it lacks real dark shades.

alien nose job

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Re: Metroid: Space Complex (Metroid 1 NES Hack WIP)
« Reply #181 on: October 10, 2019, 02:35:27 pm »
While I agree with Shade Aurion on the matter of making things easier to dissociate for the eye.
I far prefer the 3rd and don't like the first much.

I think you have excellent graphics and you spent some good time making the pillar look round.

On the first picture, the problem - imho - is that while things stand out, they stand out too much, and the pillar, along with the whole background lost all its volume which is pretty sad.

The 2nd looks too unified because everything is greenish and it makes it harder to dissociate things.

And while the 3rd is as bright as the 2nd, planes are easier to read as you have a much different color for the ground than the grass(and you keep the volume).
So the eye can easily break out parts in the image.

I guess it's just a matter of opinions, and while Shade Aurion really made a valid point, I don't think it is worth "killing" your impressive artwork.

Your combined efforts look incredible.
Technically, it barely resembles a NES game !

lexluthermiester

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Re: Metroid: Space Complex (Metroid 1 NES Hack WIP)
« Reply #182 on: October 12, 2019, 12:21:49 am »


added some tiles and made the animation a tad slower.
I this the slower animation looks good. It might look a better if you slowed it down 20% - 25% more. Only my opinion though. As is it looks good!

Mindflower

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Re: Metroid: Space Complex (Metroid 1 NES Hack WIP)
« Reply #183 on: October 25, 2019, 05:36:35 pm »


This is my latest Desert WIP test screen. It's not finished, but i want to go in a different direction here, with the absence of black, different palettes and style.


I this the slower animation looks good. It might look a better if you slowed it down 20% - 25% more. Only my opinion though. As is it looks good!

Well, see for yourself how that turns out. I changed it from 8 frames per animation frame to 10.



While I agree with Shade Aurion on the matter of making things easier to dissociate for the eye.
I far prefer the 3rd and don't like the first much.

I think you have excellent graphics and you spent some good time making the pillar look round.

On the first picture, the problem - imho - is that while things stand out, they stand out too much, and the pillar, along with the whole background lost all its volume which is pretty sad.

The 2nd looks too unified because everything is greenish and it makes it harder to dissociate things.

And while the 3rd is as bright as the 2nd, planes are easier to read as you have a much different color for the ground than the grass(and you keep the volume).
So the eye can easily break out parts in the image.

I guess it's just a matter of opinions, and while Shade Aurion really made a valid point, I don't think it is worth "killing" your impressive artwork.

Your combined efforts look incredible.
Technically, it barely resembles a NES game !
My argument for the 1st image is because the colors are bright in the 2nd and 3rd examples, they draw attention more whereas in the 1st, a background image being slightly duller doesn't distract from what is in the foreground. That way you can have brighter colors in the plain you're actually traversing, for power-ups, enemies, etc without worrying about it being confused with the background. The foreground should be highlighted and the background should frame it. This is the way things work in the majority of games for exactly this reason but nevertheless, this is just my subjective opinion. I just thought i'd expand on why ^_^

First of all, thanks.

Yes, i took the opportuniy to split the discussed palette into a fore- and background palette.
This does also mean, i have one palette less for use in that screen.
But, here is how that turned out:


EDIT: Forget to mention i am working on more, coherent tiles for the woods, in which the surface blends with dirt hills. It's an unfinished draft.


All in all i was inactive the last few weeks, but will continue whenever i feel so. It's a Game i only like to work with dictated by mood and motivation. I can't force myself to do it.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 05:45:55 pm by Mindflower »

DavidtheIdeaMan

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Re: Metroid: Space Complex (Metroid 1 NES Hack WIP)
« Reply #184 on: October 25, 2019, 07:31:28 pm »
Swwet! :D

lexluthermiester

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Re: Metroid: Space Complex (Metroid 1 NES Hack WIP)
« Reply #185 on: October 26, 2019, 12:18:52 pm »
Well, see for yourself how that turns out. I changed it from 8 frames per animation frame to 10.

I was thinking the other way around, 6 frames per instead of 8.

Mindflower

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Re: Metroid: Space Complex (Metroid 1 NES Hack WIP)
« Reply #186 on: October 26, 2019, 01:00:25 pm »
I was thinking the other way around, 6 frames per instead of 8.

6! ;)


... you called it "slowing down", so i was misled.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, why not have them side by side for comparison?

again 6:



8:



10:




What do you like best?

lexluthermiester

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Re: Metroid: Space Complex (Metroid 1 NES Hack WIP)
« Reply #187 on: October 27, 2019, 10:34:33 am »
6! ;)


... you called it "slowing down", so i was misled.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, why not have them side by side for comparison?

again 6:



8:



10:




What do you like best?
Oh, I think I misunderstood how the mechanics  of the frame display works. I was thinking the lower the number the slower the frame animation. Seems to be the other way around. In that case, yes, 10 looks better. But that's just me. It's the whole atmosphere thing for that area of the game. Convection currents add to the feel of the area, just not too fast. Of course there is the possibility of using a gradient. For upper areas of Norfiar use less bright graphics and slower animation because those areas are naturally cooler, but for lower Norfair use more bright gradients and faster animations because it's hotter down there. Only ideas. I have no idea what the code can do or what limitations are at play..
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 09:11:40 am by lexluthermiester »

Queue

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Re: Metroid: Space Complex (Metroid 1 NES Hack WIP)
« Reply #188 on: October 27, 2019, 02:04:05 pm »
If framerate (of an animation) is too low, your brain will see it as a series of separate images instead of as continuous motion (and conversely, rapid enough is how apparent animation via still images works). The 10 frame delay for the heat distortion shows this problem especially: it doesn't look like heat distortion, it looks like the background is snapping between images. While the 6 frame delay may look like it's wiggling a little fast, it also looks the most continuous. 8 is right at the threshold; to me it looks a little choppy, but I expect some people see it as fluid and I expect that's why it was the initial version shown off (it seems to be an acceptable trade-off between animation speed and apparent continuity).

Complicating matters is that different people have a different tolerance for how low a framerate can get before they stop seeing a series of images appearing as a continuous animation. So, good luck. Personally my vote is for 6, but it's just nit-picking, they all actually look pretty great.

lexluthermiester

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Re: Metroid: Space Complex (Metroid 1 NES Hack WIP)
« Reply #189 on: October 28, 2019, 09:15:49 am »
If framerate (of an animation) is too low, your brain will see it as a series of separate images instead of as continuous motion (and conversely, rapid enough is how apparent animation via still images works). The 10 frame delay for the heat distortion shows this problem especially: it doesn't look like heat distortion, it looks like the background is snapping between images. While the 6 frame delay may look like it's wiggling a little fast, it also looks the most continuous. 8 is right at the threshold; to me it looks a little choppy, but I expect some people see it as fluid and I expect that's why it was the initial version shown off (it seems to be an acceptable trade-off between animation speed and apparent continuity).

Complicating matters is that different people have a different tolerance for how low a framerate can get before they stop seeing a series of images appearing as a continuous animation. So, good luck. Personally my vote is for 6, but it's just nit-picking, they all actually look pretty great.
Very good points. To be fair, the above examples are GIFs, the look in actual gameplay is likely to be a bit different.

mdtauk

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Re: Metroid: Space Complex (Metroid 1 NES Hack WIP)
« Reply #190 on: October 28, 2019, 11:32:20 am »


This is my latest Desert WIP test screen. It's not finished, but i want to go in a different direction here, with the absence of black, different palettes and style.

The sudden shift from mostly dark and moody atmospheres, to a bright blue sky and bright desert, may be a bit harsh and not very cohesive.

You could try having the desert at night.  Or making the sky more grey.


Mindflower

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Re: Metroid: Space Complex (Metroid 1 NES Hack WIP)
« Reply #191 on: October 29, 2019, 07:59:25 am »
Oh, I think I misunderstood how the mechanics  of the frame display works. I was thinking the lower the number the slower the frame animation. Seems to be the other way around. In that case, yes, 10 looks better. But that's just me. It's the whole atmosphere thing for that area of the game. Convection currents add to the feel of the area, just not too fast. Of course there is the possibility of using a gradient. For upper areas of Norfiar use less bright graphics and slower animation because those areas are naturally cooler, but for lower Norfair use more bright gradients and faster animations because it's hotter down there. Only ideas. I have no idea what the code can do or what limitations are at play..
If framerate (of an animation) is too low, your brain will see it as a series of separate images instead of as continuous motion (and conversely, rapid enough is how apparent animation via still images works). The 10 frame delay for the heat distortion shows this problem especially: it doesn't look like heat distortion, it looks like the background is snapping between images. While the 6 frame delay may look like it's wiggling a little fast, it also looks the most continuous. 8 is right at the threshold; to me it looks a little choppy, but I expect some people see it as fluid and I expect that's why it was the initial version shown off (it seems to be an acceptable trade-off between animation speed and apparent continuity).

Complicating matters is that different people have a different tolerance for how low a framerate can get before they stop seeing a series of images appearing as a continuous animation. So, good luck. Personally my vote is for 6, but it's just nit-picking, they all actually look pretty great.
Very good points. To be fair, the above examples are GIFs, the look in actual gameplay is likely to be a bit different.
Well yes, good points.
8-ish seems like a good measure. maybe 7!? ;) gonna fiddle around and by the time i'm convinced myself i'll upload a youtube vid for reference.
Also like the idea of having some variation in its look with a transition to an even hotter (sub-)area.
In my level layout this area will be nearby a marine area, so some underwater volcano idea came to mind.


...in which case a faster animation would make sense, because it seems more fluid then.
Gosh, i like experimenting in that creative fashion :)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The sudden shift from mostly dark and moody atmospheres, to a bright blue sky and bright desert, may be a bit harsh and not very cohesive.

You could try having the desert at night.  Or making the sky more grey.


I haven't yet tried out, what impression the transition to the desert looks and feels like, but you made a valid point.
Well for one, i wanted to have a different feeling area, but, your point really makes sense and i'm gonna try it out anytime with nighttime or maybe some twilight. I like that idea.

Thanks for all your feedbacks, that's worth a lot!
« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 08:09:45 am by Mindflower »