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Fewer Excuses for making Text-only Programs

Started by pianohombre, June 02, 2017, 03:50:16 PM

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pianohombre

It's so easy to make a GUI program, and most computer classes cover the basics of it in courses in college. There really should be no excuse for people to just write a program, getting it to work, then running it in the command prompt. It's only a few extra steps to make a functioning GUI there really should be no excuse for people to just leave it command-only. There's a lot of programs on here that are like 50kb or less, that are just these bare bones DOS programs. There's Visual Studio, Eclipse and many other compilers that let you create a GUI for free!
"Programming in itself is beauty,
whether or not the operating system actually functions." - Steve Wozniak

Disch

I've been saying this since 1998.

But in all fairness, some programs (like compilers/assemblers) absolutely should be command-line only so they can be worked into batch scripts and the like.  Guis for those kinds of things should be separate programs.

flame

How do you make a GUI with Python and yes, I'm too lazy to Google it.

I took programming for engineers. Easy programming tasks like:
Writing pseudocode
Setting variables
Doing math
Doing loops
Input/output

Were covered. GUIs were not covered. I think it was a 2 credits class which means two hours of instruction per week for a semester (17 weeks).

FAST6191

Ooh is it time for the every so often rag on command line session?

Are there any especially noted programs that are command line only which would benefit from a GUI for their intended audience?

flame

I don't know how to make GUIs. So, for Isourou-san, my project lead on R-Type Tactics II, I made a "runner" batch file which will run the script using Python launcher.

My partial TL of Last Ranker here: http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2747/
It uses a custom patcher written in Python and a runner batch file to make it work.

I don't think GUIs are easily possible in Python, and I don't know how user experience would work either. For the Last Ranker patcher, the user is asked to drag and drop their ISO overtop the runner batch file to get things started, which I think is easy enough for most users.

I use deceboot by NoOnee: http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/1225/
The function is to decrypt PSP EBOOTs.
This one is better as a command line utility because you can run it in a batch file or using Python's subprocess module to do it within a script.
This allows small EBOOT patches because your diffs are between the modified version and the unmodified version like it's supposed to be and not between the modified version and the encrypted version.

KaioShin

If all your program takes as input is one or two files and maybe a flag it's a complete waste of time to code a GUI around it. At least when the target audience is people who want to dive into the byte levels of a game. I expect a minimum of technical competence there, I'm sorry. It's of course different when the target audience is my mom. Then I'll make a GUI even for that. But for tools on this site, she isn't.
All my posts are merely personal opinions and not statements of fact, even if they are not explicitly prefixed by "In my opinion", "IMO", "I believe", or similar modifiers. By reading this disclaimer you agree to reply in spirit of these conditions.

Disch

Quote from: FAST6191 on June 02, 2017, 04:20:24 PM
Are there any especially noted programs that are command line only which would benefit from a GUI for their intended audience?

Mednafen?  Does that have a GUI yet?  I haven't used it in years -- mainly for this reason.

Mugi

to answer your argument on the topic title, there's no excuses to make a GUI for a program that absolutely doesn't need one.

all my tools are CLI only and will always be because file extractors, repackers, grapghics conversion tools and whatnots i use for translation work will have zero benefit from such things.
also as already mentioned, batch support on cli is much more convenient (although, for the sake of argument, nothing stops a GUI program from having options to be used via CLI.)

and no, i also dont know how to make GUI's, and most likely never will either.
In PSP we trust.

pianohombre

Quote from: FAST6191 on June 02, 2017, 04:20:24 PM
Are there any especially noted programs that are command line only which would benefit from a GUI for their intended audience?

I've seen several such so I'll lump them all together. If someone is going to the effort to make a program, why not do it right? Sure if they are making it for maybe 5-10 people, it does one function, and they aren't getting paid understandable......But I mean when you wash your car you also wax it right? Because if you don't that paint is going to fade and chip.
"Programming in itself is beauty,
whether or not the operating system actually functions." - Steve Wozniak

FAST6191

From what I can see wax is mostly a relic of the 60s and 70s when paints were worse. Today pigments tend to come with a nice bit of sunscreen and the means of attaching/bonding are somewhat better.

Back on topic I would be after examples here.

Solely "program inputfile outputfile" is an acceptable way to operate for me if that is the extent of the program. I would probably almost consider it wasted effort, or at least entirely optional, to make something like http://www.cs.put.poznan.pl/mmasewicz/dydaktyka/po/java_tutorial/jatutorc/filegui.jpg Exception might be for a patching program which has end users as a target user, and there my gripes would come in with things like high level "real time" type text editors which are made after everything is figured out and the problem mostly reduced to a making up text to go in there problem.

Examples of this, at least for programs not near totally supplanted, are a bit thin on the ground though which is why I was asking.

That said previous incarnations of this debate were more about doing away with command line for whatever reason so I am possibly a still on a bit of a troll from those.

nesrocks

Quote from: Disch on June 02, 2017, 04:36:47 PM
Mednafen?  Does that have a GUI yet?  I haven't used it in years -- mainly for this reason.
I use mednafen inside of bizhawk, which has a gui. It is really good.

Jorpho

I've tried making a GUI before, and it isn't easy at all.  Not with Python, at least.  (With good ol' Labview or Hypercard, maybe, but no one would use those for practical utilities.)
This signature is an illusion and is a trap devisut by Satan. Go ahead dauntlessly! Make rapid progres!

Zoinkity


pianohombre

The only program I can think of, and use frequently, that does this is Lunar Compress.
Just a pain to have to type out 'dir /yourdir' several times after looking through the start menu and typing cmd
Sure, you may be one of those people who, when people were tired of switching channels on those ancient televisions with a switch and wished they could just push a button said "you don't need a button just get your lazy a$$ up and switch the channel". Then when every tv had a remote realized it really was more convenient. And then when cable boxes had 500 channels they were a necessity.

It's just a rant. You can disagree if you like. Just kind of a pain that adds 30 seconds to whatever I was trying to do.
"Programming in itself is beauty,
whether or not the operating system actually functions." - Steve Wozniak

Bregalad

Quote from: pianohombre on June 02, 2017, 03:50:16 PM
It's so easy to make a GUI program, and most computer classes cover the basics of it in courses in college. There really should be no excuse for people to just write a program, getting it to work, then running it in the command prompt. It's only a few extra steps to make a functioning GUI there really should be no excuse for people to just leave it command-only.

It's so easy to use a command line, and most computer classes covers the basics of command line usage in its courses in college. There really should be no excuse for people to just use a program, getting it to work, then running it it in the command prompt. It's just only  a few extra steps to learn how to functionally use a command line, so there should be no excuse for people to just learn to use GUI only.

pianohombre

"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be—or to be indistinguishable from—self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
― Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon
"Programming in itself is beauty,
whether or not the operating system actually functions." - Steve Wozniak

hanhnn

Creating a proper GUI is much more difficult than cleaning up the code, man.

STARWIN

It is probably because the time of smart people is so much more valuable than the time of stupid people.

If the program didn't exist, the stupid people couldn't do anything.
If more effort was put to the program, the smart people might not have gotten something else done.

Of course, if we assume that the stupid people can make GUIs, they could just make a GUI for the core component using their less valuable time, and everyone is happy.

tvtoon

So now that your problem has been revealed to be Lunar Compress, feel free to download the DLL version, wrap it around your GUI using Visual Studio and amuse us with how easy it will work out! :D

FCandChill

I find GUIs easier to create than terminal programs ... but that's just me. Probably because it's easier to test .... I don't know...