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Metroid: Space Complex (Metroid 1 NES Hack WIP)

Started by Mindflower, May 08, 2017, 11:43:11 AM

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Mindflower

Quote from: Shade Aurion on October 06, 2019, 05:54:16 AM
My argument for the 1st image is because the colors are bright in the 2nd and 3rd examples, they draw attention more whereas in the 1st, a background image being slightly duller doesn't distract from what is in the foreground. That way you can have brighter colors in the plain you're actually traversing, for power-ups, enemies, etc without worrying about it being confused with the background. The foreground should be highlighted and the background should frame it. This is the way things work in the majority of games for exactly this reason but nevertheless, this is just my subjective opinion. I just thought i'd expand on why ^_^

Thanks a lot for your insight on that! :)
For the foreground pillar things I like the 2nd color scheme best because it gives the best contrast, whereas for the background trees I like the darker scheme best as you said because it makes the foreground stand out better.
My initial idea was to have one shared palette for all those things, maybe I make it two different ones.
Colors on NES are a pain in the a**, especially because it lacks real dark shades.

alien nose job

While I agree with Shade Aurion on the matter of making things easier to dissociate for the eye.
I far prefer the 3rd and don't like the first much.

I think you have excellent graphics and you spent some good time making the pillar look round.

On the first picture, the problem - imho - is that while things stand out, they stand out too much, and the pillar, along with the whole background lost all its volume which is pretty sad.

The 2nd looks too unified because everything is greenish and it makes it harder to dissociate things.

And while the 3rd is as bright as the 2nd, planes are easier to read as you have a much different color for the ground than the grass(and you keep the volume).
So the eye can easily break out parts in the image.

I guess it's just a matter of opinions, and while Shade Aurion really made a valid point, I don't think it is worth "killing" your impressive artwork.

Your combined efforts look incredible.
Technically, it barely resembles a NES game !

lexluthermiester

Quote from: Mindflower on October 01, 2019, 03:46:14 PM


added some tiles and made the animation a tad slower.
I this the slower animation looks good. It might look a better if you slowed it down 20% - 25% more. Only my opinion though. As is it looks good!

Mindflower

#183


This is my latest Desert WIP test screen. It's not finished, but i want to go in a different direction here, with the absence of black, different palettes and style.


Quote from: lexluthermiester on October 12, 2019, 12:21:49 AM
I this the slower animation looks good. It might look a better if you slowed it down 20% - 25% more. Only my opinion though. As is it looks good!

Well, see for yourself how that turns out. I changed it from 8 frames per animation frame to 10.



Quote from: alien nose job on October 10, 2019, 02:35:27 PM
While I agree with Shade Aurion on the matter of making things easier to dissociate for the eye.
I far prefer the 3rd and don't like the first much.

I think you have excellent graphics and you spent some good time making the pillar look round.

On the first picture, the problem - imho - is that while things stand out, they stand out too much, and the pillar, along with the whole background lost all its volume which is pretty sad.

The 2nd looks too unified because everything is greenish and it makes it harder to dissociate things.

And while the 3rd is as bright as the 2nd, planes are easier to read as you have a much different color for the ground than the grass(and you keep the volume).
So the eye can easily break out parts in the image.

I guess it's just a matter of opinions, and while Shade Aurion really made a valid point, I don't think it is worth "killing" your impressive artwork.

Your combined efforts look incredible.
Technically, it barely resembles a NES game !
Quote from: Shade Aurion on October 06, 2019, 05:54:16 AM
My argument for the 1st image is because the colors are bright in the 2nd and 3rd examples, they draw attention more whereas in the 1st, a background image being slightly duller doesn't distract from what is in the foreground. That way you can have brighter colors in the plain you're actually traversing, for power-ups, enemies, etc without worrying about it being confused with the background. The foreground should be highlighted and the background should frame it. This is the way things work in the majority of games for exactly this reason but nevertheless, this is just my subjective opinion. I just thought i'd expand on why ^_^

First of all, thanks.

Yes, i took the opportuniy to split the discussed palette into a fore- and background palette.
This does also mean, i have one palette less for use in that screen.
But, here is how that turned out:


EDIT: Forget to mention i am working on more, coherent tiles for the woods, in which the surface blends with dirt hills. It's an unfinished draft.


All in all i was inactive the last few weeks, but will continue whenever i feel so. It's a Game i only like to work with dictated by mood and motivation. I can't force myself to do it.

Cheers.


lexluthermiester

Quote from: Mindflower on October 25, 2019, 05:36:35 PM
Well, see for yourself how that turns out. I changed it from 8 frames per animation frame to 10.

I was thinking the other way around, 6 frames per instead of 8.

Mindflower

Quote from: lexluthermiester on October 26, 2019, 12:18:52 PM
I was thinking the other way around, 6 frames per instead of 8.

6! ;)


... you called it "slowing down", so i was misled.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, why not have them side by side for comparison?

again 6:



8:



10:




What do you like best?

lexluthermiester

#187
Quote from: Mindflower on October 26, 2019, 01:00:25 PM
6! ;)


... you called it "slowing down", so i was misled.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, why not have them side by side for comparison?

again 6:



8:



10:




What do you like best?
Oh, I think I misunderstood how the mechanics  of the frame display works. I was thinking the lower the number the slower the frame animation. Seems to be the other way around. In that case, yes, 10 looks better. But that's just me. It's the whole atmosphere thing for that area of the game. Convection currents add to the feel of the area, just not too fast. Of course there is the possibility of using a gradient. For upper areas of Norfiar use less bright graphics and slower animation because those areas are naturally cooler, but for lower Norfair use more bright gradients and faster animations because it's hotter down there. Only ideas. I have no idea what the code can do or what limitations are at play..

Queue

If framerate (of an animation) is too low, your brain will see it as a series of separate images instead of as continuous motion (and conversely, rapid enough is how apparent animation via still images works). The 10 frame delay for the heat distortion shows this problem especially: it doesn't look like heat distortion, it looks like the background is snapping between images. While the 6 frame delay may look like it's wiggling a little fast, it also looks the most continuous. 8 is right at the threshold; to me it looks a little choppy, but I expect some people see it as fluid and I expect that's why it was the initial version shown off (it seems to be an acceptable trade-off between animation speed and apparent continuity).

Complicating matters is that different people have a different tolerance for how low a framerate can get before they stop seeing a series of images appearing as a continuous animation. So, good luck. Personally my vote is for 6, but it's just nit-picking, they all actually look pretty great.

lexluthermiester

Quote from: Queue on October 27, 2019, 02:04:05 PM
If framerate (of an animation) is too low, your brain will see it as a series of separate images instead of as continuous motion (and conversely, rapid enough is how apparent animation via still images works). The 10 frame delay for the heat distortion shows this problem especially: it doesn't look like heat distortion, it looks like the background is snapping between images. While the 6 frame delay may look like it's wiggling a little fast, it also looks the most continuous. 8 is right at the threshold; to me it looks a little choppy, but I expect some people see it as fluid and I expect that's why it was the initial version shown off (it seems to be an acceptable trade-off between animation speed and apparent continuity).

Complicating matters is that different people have a different tolerance for how low a framerate can get before they stop seeing a series of images appearing as a continuous animation. So, good luck. Personally my vote is for 6, but it's just nit-picking, they all actually look pretty great.
Very good points. To be fair, the above examples are GIFs, the look in actual gameplay is likely to be a bit different.

mdtauk

Quote from: Mindflower on October 25, 2019, 05:36:35 PM


This is my latest Desert WIP test screen. It's not finished, but i want to go in a different direction here, with the absence of black, different palettes and style.

The sudden shift from mostly dark and moody atmospheres, to a bright blue sky and bright desert, may be a bit harsh and not very cohesive.

You could try having the desert at night.  Or making the sky more grey.


Mindflower

#191
Quote from: lexluthermiester on October 27, 2019, 10:34:33 AM
Oh, I think I misunderstood how the mechanics  of the frame display works. I was thinking the lower the number the slower the frame animation. Seems to be the other way around. In that case, yes, 10 looks better. But that's just me. It's the whole atmosphere thing for that area of the game. Convection currents add to the feel of the area, just not too fast. Of course there is the possibility of using a gradient. For upper areas of Norfiar use less bright graphics and slower animation because those areas are naturally cooler, but for lower Norfair use more bright gradients and faster animations because it's hotter down there. Only ideas. I have no idea what the code can do or what limitations are at play..
Quote from: Queue on October 27, 2019, 02:04:05 PM
If framerate (of an animation) is too low, your brain will see it as a series of separate images instead of as continuous motion (and conversely, rapid enough is how apparent animation via still images works). The 10 frame delay for the heat distortion shows this problem especially: it doesn't look like heat distortion, it looks like the background is snapping between images. While the 6 frame delay may look like it's wiggling a little fast, it also looks the most continuous. 8 is right at the threshold; to me it looks a little choppy, but I expect some people see it as fluid and I expect that's why it was the initial version shown off (it seems to be an acceptable trade-off between animation speed and apparent continuity).

Complicating matters is that different people have a different tolerance for how low a framerate can get before they stop seeing a series of images appearing as a continuous animation. So, good luck. Personally my vote is for 6, but it's just nit-picking, they all actually look pretty great.
Quote from: lexluthermiester on October 28, 2019, 09:15:49 AM
Very good points. To be fair, the above examples are GIFs, the look in actual gameplay is likely to be a bit different.
Well yes, good points.
8-ish seems like a good measure. maybe 7!? ;) gonna fiddle around and by the time i'm convinced myself i'll upload a youtube vid for reference.
Also like the idea of having some variation in its look with a transition to an even hotter (sub-)area.
In my level layout this area will be nearby a marine area, so some underwater volcano idea came to mind.


...in which case a faster animation would make sense, because it seems more fluid then.
Gosh, i like experimenting in that creative fashion :)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Quote from: mdtauk on October 28, 2019, 11:32:20 AM
The sudden shift from mostly dark and moody atmospheres, to a bright blue sky and bright desert, may be a bit harsh and not very cohesive.

You could try having the desert at night.  Or making the sky more grey.


I haven't yet tried out, what impression the transition to the desert looks and feels like, but you made a valid point.
Well for one, i wanted to have a different feeling area, but, your point really makes sense and i'm gonna try it out anytime with nighttime or maybe some twilight. I like that idea.

Thanks for all your feedbacks, that's worth a lot!

Mindflower

Hi folks,

i think it's about time to inform you that i'm working on Space Complex' Tilesets eagerly.
I changed to PyxelEdit in favor of Photoshop, which pushed my workflow in Tileset creation by tons. It's great!

I was working on the starting area the last two days, this is the outcome so far:










Cheers! =)

Shade Aurion

Looks great. Also, I might check out PyxelEdit myself. Photoshop is kinda tedious for pixel art. I use Aseprite too.

Mindflower

#194
Quote from: Shade Aurion on November 24, 2019, 05:46:07 AM
Looks great. Also, I might check out PyxelEdit myself. Photoshop is kinda tedious for pixel art. I use Aseprite too.
Aseprite i want to include too in my app collection very soon. It also is about to get a tileset feature.
PyxelEdit is great tho, and 9$ isn't that high of a price.
It's so much more fun and motivating doing tilesets with this. I often got burned out doing that task with ol' Photoshop.

November 25, 2019, 07:44:16 PM - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

and there's more to this area, the environment grows, details show up.
Tileset Status Quo


Mindflower

Due to my new full time job i will have less time for hacking. Despite that i will go and continue working on it whenever i can and feel like doing so.

Here are some examples of what i've done recently:

Some little companion
Spoiler
[close]

The slow emergence of Cave Rock
I began with the shapes first, and then layers of shading and highlights. itsa long work, but it's good.


First Level Design test screens in Brinstar /w the new Tileset


Cheers.


Morinis

Heat suit for the game  :thumbsup:

Updated from the old versions that I had going for MindFlower.  I'm introducing my 'Sentinel' suit design that takes a new animation approach so that way everything doesn't feel the same within the game along with a slimmer look instead of the bulky battle suits you have been seeing :beer:


ROM Hacker, Reviewer and Critic.

Don't Know What Else To Say So... <3 You!

cartridge_rom

#197
Quote from: Morinis on December 10, 2019, 10:27:25 AM
Heat suit for the game  :thumbsup:

Updated from the old versions that I had going for MindFlower.  I'm introducing my 'Sentinel' suit design that takes a new animation approach so that way everything doesn't feel the same within the game along with a slimmer look instead of the bulky battle suits you have been seeing :beer:




wow, amazing ... suit update :D

Is there much to release? The project is improving. :thumbsup:

I know you have many projects, but I hope to see your work in the graphic update of SaintSeiya 2, your sprites and animations have to be great to see in this old Nes / Famicom game. :beer:

Morinis

For Space Complex?  Only when MindFlower is 100% done with it so patience is one's own reward.  I'm just helping out with suit and enemy sprites :)
ROM Hacker, Reviewer and Critic.

Don't Know What Else To Say So... <3 You!

Mindflower

Quote from: cartridge_rom on December 11, 2019, 05:52:23 AM
Is there much to release? The project is improving. :thumbsup:

I can't say anything specific about an approximate release date. Things got worse (or better), due to the fact i'm working 8 days a week now... This hack with its huge scope is a heavy workload for a "1-man-team" to begin with (and Morinis for some sprites as he mentioned). But regarding the loss of free time because of my new full time job you can expect this game to be a finished thing somewhere in the middle-far future.
At the moment i'm creating several tilesets, some of them i showed here (what about the Rock Surface for example?).
I would expect the game to go live 2021 the earliest, but even that is no promise!
I will shoot a post here if there is some playable demo though!



Quote from: Morinis on December 10, 2019, 10:27:25 AM
Heat suit for the game  :thumbsup:

Updated from the old versions that I had going for MindFlower.  I'm introducing my 'Sentinel' suit design that takes a new animation approach so that way everything doesn't feel the same within the game along with a slimmer look instead of the bulky battle suits you have been seeing :beer:




I like what I'm seeing a hell lot, and also great you're bringing variety into the mix with a rather slim suit this time. good job! :)