Chrono trigger plus

[Tootzo]

My previous post has been on hold for moderation since yesterday morning. I hope this gets through sooner.
In case this gets published before the other, I wanted to report to Ben that I was able to make the patched ROM work without being stuck in Chrono's room on the SNES mini using RetroArch and launching the game with the snes9x emulator core instead of the built-in one (Clover).
Also the long black screens have disappeared. Clover emulator seems to conflict with some of the changes in the patch.

[Josephine Lithius]

Only the party will call Magus by his given name, everyone else still calls him Magus

Oh?  I hadn't even started on that one.  I'm glad you liked the idea enough to implement it, though!  I can't imagine it took any small amount of time, even with a text dump handy.
Unless... maybe, you exported the entire script and swapped out the appropriate "{Magus}" triggers for "[the?] Magus" text.  Is that a thing Temporal Flux can do, easily...?  'cause, I never looked into it, ha hah.

[ThegreatBen]

Does it related somehow to flames of eternity or crimson echoes?

No it's all my own vision

Just read through the entire thread, going to have to give this patch a try, especially as I already have the MSU-1 files.

I've seen several comments about patch compatibility. https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/1080/ That tool lets you select 2 IPS patches, and compares the changes they make to see if things are using the same memory addresses and such. It gives you a % compatibility, and can print up a report on the conflicting addresses, if any exist, for those trying to get them to work together.

What is this lacking that another patch could provide?

My previous post has been on hold for moderation since yesterday morning. I hope this gets through sooner.
In case this gets published before the other, I wanted to report to Ben that I was able to make the patched ROM work without being stuck in Chrono's room on the SNES mini using RetroArch and launching the game with the snes9x emulator core instead of the built-in one (Clover).
Also the long black screens have disappeared. Clover emulator seems to conflict with some of the changes in the patch.

Glad to see you got it working, hope you like it.

Oh?  I hadn't even started on that one.  I'm glad you liked the idea enough to implement it, though!  I can't imagine it took any small amount of time, even with a text dump handy.
Unless... maybe, you exported the entire script and swapped out the appropriate "{Magus}" triggers for "[the?] Magus" text.  Is that a thing Temporal Flux can do, easily...?  'cause, I never looked into it, ha hah.

I talked to npc's in 600ad, if they mentioned Magus i went to that map in Temporal flux and edited out the {}


The bike race is fixed and the rewards are improved, but considering how hard it is to beat a score of 2300 I think the reward for this should be something astronomical if anyone has any ideas post them

[Made in China]

Seeing as it's a minigame, I suggest reward similar to the minigames at the fair - specifically, a metallic (monochrome) doll of Crono. It will be the difficult way of replacing Crono with a doll in Death Peak, and it'll have the benefit of not locking you out if you didn't get a doll before losing Crono.

[edale]

What is this lacking that another patch could provide?

No clue, I saw other people posting compatibility questions, and posted that tool in response.

It will be the difficult way of replacing Crono with a doll in Death Peak, and it'll have the benefit of not locking you out if you didn't get a doll before losing Crono.

You aren't locked out if you didn't get the Crono Doll before he dies.

If Crono dies before you get the doll, simply win the game in the millennial fair that would get you the doll, and you'll get chrono's doll no matter who you win the game with. (at least in the stock Chrono Trigger game)

After that, you'll get the doll of the winning character on subsequent wins.

[Made in China]

If Crono dies before you get the doll, simply win the game in the millennial fair that would get you the doll, and you'll get chrono's doll no matter who you win the game with. (at least in the stock Chrono Trigger game)

After that, you'll get the doll of the winning character on subsequent wins.

Really? I assumed it was only the latter. My bad, then.

[edale]

Really? I assumed it was only the latter. My bad, then.

Almost everyone gets the doll in the first 10 minutes of the game, becasue they assume they have to, or a guide tells them to, so most people don't hit dead Crono without a doll already; but the first prize of that game is ALWAYS Chrono's doll.

BTW, fun Millennial Fair trivia fact: The cats you win? They're not a gag gift. The cats actually show up in your house; BUT... You need to keep winning cat-food regularly to feed them, or they'll wander off. I think the max you can have at once is 9, but I'm not sure.

And to get a full-innocent judgement (all 12 jurors say innocent, rather than 1 still saying guilty) in the trial scene, you have to

Spoiler

return the cat to the little girl BEFORE she tells you it's missing

[close]

, although that bug may be fixed in this patch.

[Josephine Lithius]

Regarding Crono's Clone/the Doppel Doll, edale's right... but, they're missing one important part of that explanation.

If you wait until you need the doll...

Spoiler

Gaspar will mention Dr. Bekkler, by name, at the End of Time.  When you go to visit Dr. Bekkler, he'll immediately tell you that he knows you need the doll and cut you a deal: If you win his game, the doll is free, like usual... but, if you lose, depending on how badly you lose, the doll will cost you money -- not Silver Points but actual money.

[close]

I always thought that was kind of neat and expands on an otherwise minor character in a significant way.

[ThegreatBen]

Ok so I decided that the bike race is something most people don't spend a lot of time on so I fixed the bugs and improved the prizes, they are now a mix of consumables and equipment that is a good prize at any point in the game but nothing unique for those that don't want to bother with it.

Next thing to work on is the new ending in the Ocean Palace and Singing mountain (still don't have a purpose for it, but the maps will take me a while anyway)

[edale]

Regarding Crono's Clone/the Doppel Doll, edale's right... but, they're missing one important part of that explanation.

If you wait until you need the doll...

Spoiler

Gaspar will mention Dr. Bekkler, by name, at the End of Time.  When you go to visit Dr. Bekkler, he'll immediately tell you that he knows you need the doll and cut you a deal: If you win his game, the doll is free, like usual... but, if you lose, depending on how badly you lose, the doll will cost you money -- not Silver Points but actual money.

[close]

I always thought that was kind of neat and expands on an otherwise minor character in a significant way.

I was working off memory, so didn't remember that tidbit. Good catch.

[lexluthermiester]

Ok, up to Black Omen. Been to 1999. While cool, is there a goal there? The most I've done beside stock up on pricy but awesome items was to buy Marle the "pet". Can the Castle and/or lower contenent be reached?

BTW, the graphical glitches observed are items like the lower left part of the spinning wheel in the reptile village being in the forground instead of the backgroud with the rest of the wheel. Little things like that. Very minor type things. Meant no offense Ben & team. Having a blast!

Thinking you guys have a ton of things still planned. Seems awesome!

[ThegreatBen]

Right now the castle and the lower continent are inaccessible, the main thing you can do there is upgrade the Wondershot, talk to Gob with it unequipped.

I'll fix the layering on the wheel thanks for letting me know.

Didn't work much on this yesterday but I did make it so Crono could be swapped at anytime only a forced character in Zeal.

[Made in China]

While it is cool, I think it can ruin the reveal of Crono dying in Zeal for first time players. Having him as the forced main up to his death is, in my mind, the better choice - and creates a nice diversion (because characters dying - not new. The main character dying? Far more rare).

[Josephine Lithius]

Didn't work much on this yesterday but I did make it so Crono could be swapped at anytime only a forced character in Zeal.

Funny you mention that.  I've been kind of half-testing keeping the party entirely free to rearrangement (PAR code 7F01DE00), during my playtesting -- mostly to put the "story-centric" character into the first slot (Lucca during The Queen is Gone, Robo during The Factory Ruins, etc).  I've experienced a few odd priority issues, here-or-there -- usually with a non-Crono character getting stuck in an animation -- but only one event, so far, outright broke.

If you swap Lucca and Crono's placement around, before the Dragon Tank battle, after beating the boss, the game soft-locks.  If I had to guess at why, it's because the game is trying to call an event from CHR00 (the first party memory) rather than Object 1 (specifically Crono) and, if Lucca is in the CHR00 spot, the events can't continue.  It's kind of odd that it would do that after telling Object 1 to finish off the Dragon Tank, though... but, then, the guts of Chrono Trigger are full of weird and unexpected things... like, for example, in the Denadoro Mountains, there's a second Ogre gauntlet which, for whatever reason, was disabled.

Oh, and, if you want a laugh, at an inappropriate time, try putting Robo in the first party slot, before the R-Series battle.  I found the results pretty amusing...

Edit: Not having Crono in the first party slot, during the party in 65M BC, will also soft-lock the game, during the party and after waking Ayla.

[ThegreatBen]

Good to know, maybe I'll lock him until the end of time

[edale]

While it is cool, I think it can ruin the reveal of Crono dying in Zeal for first time players. Having him as the forced main up to his death is, in my mind, the better choice - and creates a nice diversion (because characters dying - not new. The main character dying? Far more rare).

*looks at the LONG list of Final Fantasy main party characters that have died... and no Aerith was NOT the first one*

Well... I wouldn't say rare... Uncommon at least.

And one of the things this mod seems to be doing is making the game MUCH more nonlinear, so you can do a lot of post-Crono-death events before he dies, and a lot of pre-Crono-death events after he dies.

Didn't work much on this yesterday but I did make it so Crono could be swapped at anytime only a forced character in Zeal.

My real question is how do you block a party without Crono from doing the Zeal events?

[Made in China]

*looks at the LONG list of Final Fantasy main party characters that have died... and no Aerith was NOT the first one*

Well... I wouldn't say rare... Uncommon at least.

Not quite the same, it isn't like killing off Aerith, which was one of the main characters, it's killing THE main character - more in line with killing Cloud and handing control over to Barret. Up to Zeal it was Crono's story - which is the red herring and the build up, and after Zeal it was expanded to be everyone's.

I have no problem with the concept, I think it's cool - but it could be seen as a slight downgrade thematically.

[Josephine Lithius]

My real question is how do you block a party without Crono from doing the Zeal events?

On a technical level, it's pretty easy.  Just set up an event that checks to see if Crono is in the party, before going to Enhasa, then lock him in, during.

Storywise, though?  There's technically no reason to ever drag Crono along on any of this mess... or, really, any of the events of the game.  But, between Ayla and Marle, I'm sure some story could be written to where they absolutely demand his presence.
Like, for example, let's say Ayla wanted him to help attack the Tyrano Lair (because, she thinks he's the strongest of her strong friends) and refused to fly the Dactyl, without him.  That seems like the most logical point to lock him in, to me, without making things seem too obvious or cliché.
Alternately, the "lock point" could be set to after finding the Epoch.  But, Janus' vague proclamation would have to be edited to accommodate, if Crono isn't present, at the time.

There's a whole lotta ifs-and-or-buts to consider, when changing something that significant.  It's, honestly, kind of a mess.  But, I reckon that we can help, if Ben needs it!

[ThegreatBen]

The party is re shuffled the second time Ayla joins, resetting his lock at that point is by the easiest way to do it, though from what Joseph is saying it sounds like it will need some work in a few spots.

[andrewclunn]

I was always bothered that Chrono couldn't choose himself when asked who would stay when robot goes to open the door in the factory.

Edit-

One complaint (though minor).  I think making the right part of the factory mandatory is a mistake.  In every other aspect this hack adds features and expands players' freedom in how to play the game.  Forcing previously optional content seems like the wrong way to go.  Putting a speed tab or something enticing down there would work, but forcibly expanding speed run times or new game plus play throughs there seems like a bad idea, and I dare say that if it had been that way in the original, you would have made it optional to be in line with the rest of the changes you've made to this hack.