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Author Topic: Wizards & Warriors  (Read 10916 times)

WebSlinger

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Wizards & Warriors
« on: January 17, 2017, 09:13:22 pm »
Hey love this site been playing rom hacks for a long long time.  My question is, has anybody ever tried hacking or modding any Wizards & Warriors game in the series?
Those are my favorite game series on NES. I would love to find someone who could do a whole hack on them, or even make hacking utilities.  Only thing I ever tried, was using HEXPOSE and changing the strings into silly things.  I'm ameture at rom hacking, but have messed with Tile Layer pro before.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 08:14:34 pm by WebSlinger »

Turambar

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2017, 12:39:17 pm »
I did a little bit of hacking with Ironsword many years ago, but nothing worth showing. I tried to find out how the level data was stored and think I found the start of something, but I lost interest. It seems like the collision data and the background art is actually separate, but I could be wrong. For example, in the first level, in the room on the far right, the collision for the platform at the bottom of the room can be modified by changing these bytes.
0x014126 = Platform 1 Horizontal
0x014128 = Platform 1 Vertical

FreightMan71

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2017, 04:50:49 pm »
I just got done playing some Wizards & Warriors.
I switch back n forth between the US release and the Japanese release as both have a bit different set of rules.....in this case, believe it or not, the US version is the one that is the 'harder' game due to more enemies onscreen.

Usually, the (J) versions are the harder games as most are 'dumbed' down for International release.

But anyways, yea, some hacking of Wizards n Warriors would be nice.
No hacking graphic tiles or changing what the game is...just something as simple as re-arranging the levels would be nice for starters.
You know, just basically switching around what is already there, as I know most levels quite well already, it would be nice to play, say a first or second level that LOOKS somewhat familiar, yet it isn't.

xorxif

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2017, 10:28:29 pm »
I'd also like to see level hacks / randomizers / enhancements for the series.
I've had some interest in doing something like this for the original Wizards & Warriors for some time. Since there seem to be others interested as well, perhaps we could all collaborate?

I suppose the first step would be to check what information, if any, that other people have gathered regarding the game, regarding addresses, disassembly, etc.

This site seems to have some cheat codes that would help point to useful memory locations:

http://gamehacking.org/game/31356

There doesn't seem to be any ROM or RAM mapping or info on datacrystal.

There is some minor useful information on TCRF:

https://tcrf.net/Wizards_%26_Warriors

Notes from both current TAS's of the game from TASVideos:

http://tasvideos.org/1636S.html
http://tasvideos.org/1683S.html

This article seems to imply that the Cloak of Darkness actually does SOMETHING:

http://thegamersjournal.com/action/nes/wizardsandwarriors/items.php

Aside from any more already-existing information gathering, the next step I guess is to start probing and taking notes using the FCEUX debugger.

I might have some time tomorrow to start on that, but for now I'd like feedback on what else can / should be done?

MathUser2929

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2017, 11:57:58 pm »
There used to be a youtube video of a guy demonstrating a level editor for WW1. I think it only supported that 1 level and I'm not sure if it was a hack or some rebuilt fangame with a editor. The video don't seem to be on youtube anymore.

WebSlinger

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2017, 09:13:16 pm »
Awesome replies.  Yeah I've tried messing with the addresses and stuff in Iron Sword.  All I did was mess it up. lol  Thanks to FCEUX.
I also went back and forth between the JAP and US versions of the first game as well.  They did switch the bosses around and treasures a bit, which is so bizarre... 
I also did find that youtube thingy long time ago,  but as always I get my hopes up for nothing..  Totally like ta have a level editor for either 1 or 2.  :P

February 28, 2017, 09:16:26 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

This site seems to have some cheat codes that would help point to useful memory locations:

http://gamehacking.org/game/31356

There doesn't seem to be any ROM or RAM mapping or info on datacrystal.

There is some minor useful information on TCRF:

https://tcrf.net/Wizards_%26_Warriors

Notes from both current TAS's of the game from TASVideos:

http://tasvideos.org/1636S.html
http://tasvideos.org/1683S.html

This article seems to imply that the Cloak of Darkness actually does SOMETHING:

http://thegamersjournal.com/action/nes/wizardsandwarriors/items.php

Aside from any more already-existing information gathering, the next step I guess is to start probing and taking notes using the FCEUX debugger.

I might have some time tomorrow to start on that, but for now I'd like feedback on what else can / should be done?

Yess!  I see the map!!  That is so cool!! 
Imagine a Metroidvania-style Wizards & Warriors game.  :o

SpiderDave

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2017, 03:03:50 am »
I mostly played Ironsword.  I did beat the game, and after a while you learn how to play around all the awkward things in this, but it could really use some improvement.  here's what I would love to see:
* horizontal levels, or at least less tiny platforms and slidey things.
* sensible hit boxes; sometimes they go right through your sword and hit you, sometimes your foot touches them and they die.  It doesn't help that the character doesn't know how to stab properly without crouching.
* less spammy shooting / kamakazi enemies.  this is especially annoying when you're right at the edge of the screen and there's no way to see it coming.  Why does everything shoot?
* items, doors, everything not placed so randomly.  the level design of this game is a mess.
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MathUser2929

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2017, 01:31:04 pm »
So was the youtube thing a fan game with editor? Or a ROM editor?

SpiderDave

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2017, 05:51:18 pm »
I started a datacrystal page for Wizards & Warriors and a ram map page.  Improve if you can.
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WebSlinger

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2020, 08:06:27 pm »
Any updates on your project?  I've been gone a few years and finally back to the site and well, no progress.

xorxif

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2020, 06:33:23 pm »
I did a little more research on and off over the last few months. Apparently a new mapper chip was invented by Rare Ltd. and was first used in this game. That may be why it has multidirectional scrolling when a lot of games around this time didn't.

So far I managed to hunt down the names of most of the staff at Rare who worked on the game:

high score list on W&W:
1. PP (Paul Proctor)
2. MB (Mark Betteridge)
3. CTJ (Chris "T.J." Stamper?)
4. RME (Rachel M. Edwards)
5. SMS (???)
6. TDJ (Tim "D.J." Stamper?)

So best guess based on roles:

Founder(s) / Programmer(s):

Tim Stamper
Chris Stamper

Music composition:
David Wise

Sound effects:
Mark Betteridge

Programmer(s):

Paul Proctor
Rachel M. Edwards

Next step I will try is looking at game genie codes to see what ROM addresses they point to, to add more info to the ROM map on datacrystal.

edit 1:
Currently attempting to trace the routines for the time-stop clock to make it last longer, it's not as straightforward as it would seem...

edit 2:
Success! Time-stop previously lasted 4.5 seconds, with a 3 byte patch, clock can now last 133.5 seconds. Took enough notes so the time stop length can be varied.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 07:19:58 pm by xorxif »

StarWyvwern

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2020, 10:08:42 pm »
 I also have an interest in this. I loved all 3 W&W games. Making any of them into a Metroidvania would be awesome.  ;D

  Has anyone tried generalized mapping? You know, open one game (like Metroid) in a general map editor, copy the collisions and platform mapping, but not the palette or background layers gfx, paste them over original W&W rom. Sprite swap Kuros from Ironsword into Golvellius Valley of Doom, or something close to it?  :huh:
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Dacicus

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2020, 01:39:42 am »
As far as maps go, I've made some notes about tiles and collision detection in Wizards & Warriors III as part of a project to improve the current TAS.  I also have information about how enemy spawns, item spawns, doors, and a number of other things work in that game.

xorxif

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2020, 01:30:24 am »
I think that Wizards & Warriors II and III might have some similarities in programming structures / techniques, because both were programmed by Zippo games, under contract by Rare, but the first game was done entirely in house, and as such I think data structures / knowledge from II might help with III, and vice versa, but not the first one. So far for me, it has needed a lot of probing to see how things work.

I'm watching the RAM in the FCEUX hex editor to see what changes and when, and then setting breakpoints and tracing code to find ways to tweak interesting things at the moment. After enough of that, I hopefully will be able to figure out where the level data resides and be able to find ways to change it around.

I'm hoping to have a somewhat accurate map of zero page sometime "soon", as I'm working on it on and off. I looked for a LONG time for other documented information about this game but so far it seems the only info available is what was put up on data crystal in the past two years or so.

StarWyvwern

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2020, 11:32:09 am »
 It is dissapointing to see so many unforseen complications, and that not many others have tried to put this out there already.
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WebSlinger

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2020, 01:59:00 pm »
I'm hoping to have a somewhat accurate map of zero page sometime "soon", as I'm working on it on and off. I looked for a LONG time for other documented information about this game but so far it seems the only info available is what was put up on data crystal in the past two years or so.

Have ya found anything to work with? perhaps all of us together as a group can make a Level editor for Iron Sword at the least... :D

Bregalad

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2020, 02:26:25 pm »
I switch back n forth between the US release and the Japanese release as both have a bit different set of rules.....in this case, believe it or not, the US version is the one that is the 'harder' game due to more enemies onscreen.

Usually, the (J) versions are the harder games as most are 'dumbed' down for International release.
Interesting ! Battletoads is the same, the (J) version is much easier and was dumbed down. That's because those games were developed by Rare, a british company, and those believed that japanese players had inferior skills. On the other hand japanese developers were sure that american and european players had inferior skills.

My favourite is by far Ironsword. The first game feels unfinished somehow. And I never really got into the 3rd one, maybe it's great too I don't know.

StarWyvwern

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Re: Wizards & Warriors
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2020, 11:48:16 pm »
 All three were great, but 3 was definitely the best. It had way more elements of interaction and questing. Music was decent too. Although I too, still like Ironsword a great deal. Unfortunately there weren't as many interactions with townsfolk, and the path of the game was more linear in 1 and 2, than in 3.
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