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Author Topic: Un-Worked Designs: Working Designs minus bullshit difficulty (Latest: Lunar 2)  (Read 374553 times)

PowerPanda

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Hi, i have 2 reports about small problems i found in the Silver Star Story Complete from PSX:

1 - There is an extra space after the name of the characters after they earn a level:



2 - After you earn a level with someone it takes some time for the last msg showing what you earned after you leveled up to disappear, i made a save state with epsxe and included the memcard file to help with this:

https://www27.zippyshare.com/v/FSspTqzy/file.html

I noticed that myself, but realized that it gave 1 "text box" per stat, even if you didn't gain anything in that stat. I you just keep pressing "X", you'll get through the levelup messages pretty quickly.

Felipefpl

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Quote
I noticed that myself, but realized that it gave 1 "text box" per stat, even if you didn't gain anything in that stat. I you just keep pressing "X", you'll get through the levelup messages pretty quickly.

I know about pressing X, the problem comes in the end where the last message takes some time to disappear.

Edit - i cant believe only yesterday i noticed the extra spaces in the messages showing how much the stats increased, it's 3 extra spaces or something....

Edit 2 - i wished i could attach small files here: a male mage is refered as "her" by Nash, save state https://www105.zippyshare.com/v/JJHl3fHw/file.html

Edit 3 - When i got 10,000 in the red dragon cave the phrase "Got10000" was written, obviously a mistake.

Edit 4 - Not sure if it's a bug or it's something from the game, when playing the ocarina in the lyton's lake i can't hear the ocarina neither i can hear the singing of the singer.

Edit 5 - When fighting Royce if Jessica uses the "Cure Condition" to heal the ppl who got under "wraps" by Royce's spell she attacks Royce with a melee attack instead.

Edit 6 - I removed the healing ring from Alex but left the item in his inventory and even unequipped the ring still heals him.

Uploaded these files, i hope they help at least to fix edit 6 https://www.4shared.com/archive/cMQp6p9iiq/Lunar_-_save_games_-_save_stat.html
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 10:20:33 am by Felipefpl »
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Gary_Oak

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So, I've been wanting to play Silhouette Mirage for a while and it turns out that Working Designs fucked up with the gameplay big time when they localized the PS1 version for the west. According to Hardcore Gaming 101 (https://tinyurl.com/2a3ttfjj):

Quote
However, when it was localized into English, there were a number of gameplay changes implemented by Working Designs, the American publisher. Working Designs was known to tinker with gameplay elements, usually to make them more difficult, but they really went overboard with this one.

The very essence of the power draining mechanics have changed. Previously, you could use any of the weapons as much as you wanted – now, all weapons drain spirit power as you use them. To make up for this, when you attack enemies with the same class, you’ll replenish your own Spirit meter in addition to depleting theirs. This is actually really useful in certain boss battles when your spirit is depleted, since you can just suck the strength back out of them. Additionally, some of the weapons in the Japanese version were pretty unbalanced, and this seems to be a way to keep players from abusing the more powerful attacks.

Ultimately, however, the changes do more harm than good. Most of the weapons drain way too much power to be useful. It also pretty much forces you to drain every enemy before killing them, and potentially you can expend more energy than you replenish. It also forces you to use the weakest weapons in most cases, since that usually expends the least amount of Spirit. Quite simply, the game is already complicated enough trying to deal with the different classes – keeping track of ammo conservation just isn’t fun.

Furthermore, Working Designs upped the difficulty by increasing the damage inflicted by enemies, as well as making all of the items in the shops more expensive. The latter solves nothing – having to stop and cash bash enemies to be able afford upgraded weapons and health replenishments was already somewhat tedious in the Japanese release, but this just makes everything worse.

At this point, what would be easier? To fix the PS1 version, or port its English script to the japanese exclusive (and much superior) Saturn version?

SCD

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In my opinion, someone should try and fix the PSX port. Not only undo the gameplay changes they did, but also decensor it as well.

I understand the Saturn version is better, but this port has a extra boss fight along with a additional ending as well.

FlamePurge

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i don't think supper or ms. tea are ever coming back to this project set
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lexluthermiester

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i don't think supper or ms. tea are ever coming back to this project set
You never know. Maybe they think they're done.

If so, these hacks should be submitted as proper projects.

Escaeva

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Sorry to resurrect this thread,

And thanks so much for the amazing work, makes some of these games way more enjoyable

But could somebody ELI5 how to use these patches?

I wanted to patch VAY with the unworked patch after using this nifty battle rate reducer

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/6814/

Setting it to 04 + the normal JP difficulty I think will make this game actually quite good!

But when I drag the .bin file on the binpatcher it does not work and when I drag the .cue file onto it it makes a copy that does not work? (each Vayunworked.bin is 1kb)

I looked through the threads already and could not find anything.

The readme is great but it kind of goes over my head with the command line stuff.

Thanks again to the creators and thanks to anyone who can help explain the patching process,

Thanks,

-Kiri
« Last Edit: June 17, 2022, 10:44:10 am by Escaeva »

ThatGuyOverThere

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Ah, Working Designs; Squaresoft's bastard, evil, brain-damaged twin.

Truly no-one anywhere missed you when you went bankrupt.

beelzebub06660

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Ah, Working Designs; Squaresoft's bastard, evil, brain-damaged twin.

Truly no-one anywhere missed you when you went bankrupt.

Except Squaresoft was an actual developer, while WD was just a publisher/localizer.

JKPhage

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Ah, Working Designs; Squaresoft's bastard, evil, brain-damaged twin.

Truly no-one anywhere missed you when you went bankrupt.

You know, some of us appreciated getting to play stuff like Popful Mail and Lunar in English back in the day when nobody else would have brought them over. Lunar and Lunar 2 are some of my favorite childhood games that I never would have been able to enjoy without Working Designs. Were some of their pop culture references a little egregious? Sure. Did they fiddle with difficulty? Yup. Did I care as a kid? Not at all. Even now I look at the changes that were made and can realize that I was still able to plow right through them as a kid that didn't put too much critical thought into RPG battle systems and just brute forced most things.

In the end, they brought over some of my favorite titles growing up, and the ones I didn't play as a kid and have since tried as an adult are also fantastic stuff. You can complain about changes or localization choices in hindsight, but me? I choose to appreciate the fact that I got to enjoy Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete back when I was growing up instead of having to wait 20-odd years for someone to fan translate it.

I can't say that their presence is missed much these days, and there's little need for them in the kind of market we have today, along with the number of fans that seem ready to jump on a fan translation the minute it becomes apparent something isn't getting localized, but they were people bringing over good games that nobody else would in an era where a good half of the games released or more never left Japan. I appreciate Supper's work towards fixing the unnecessary changes that were made under their localization, but at the end of the day, their goofy decisions still made it possible for those of us who were kids at the time to enjoy some fantastic stuff that would otherwise have been inaccessible. Even if their design practice was questionable, they still did us all a huge solid.

Jorpho

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The readme is great but it kind of goes over my head with the command line stuff.
Maybe you should start with what specifically "goes over your head", lest someone else give you another explanation that "goes over your head"?
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Escaeva

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Maybe you should start with what specifically "goes over your head", lest someone else give you another explanation that "goes over your head"?

Thanks for your reply,

I mean I don't know how to manually apply this patch with xdelta using command lines.

I tried doing it but it was met with failure haha. I'm using Windows 8, I tried making my bin/cue files into an ISO but it made into a SINGLE iso without the .wav files needed for the iso hack.

Is there an easy to use program for converting bin/cue to ISO's with multiple wav like the patch needs?

Here is what I did;
1. Applied the Battle Reduction patch to bin1 (Vay). That seems to work fine.
2. put all the contents of the Unworked patch and the bin/cue files in the same folder.
3. Tried dropping the bin file on the binpatcher which didn't seem to work. When I did it with the vay.cue file it created the unworked .bin files BUT all 1kb and the rom would not load.  :banghead:

Any help is appreciated, a ELI5 style explanation would be greatly appreciated!

Pennywise

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Have you tried using a frontend such as xdeltaUI to try patching the files?

julayla

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You know, some of us appreciated getting to play stuff like Popful Mail and Lunar in English back in the day when nobody else would have brought them over. Lunar and Lunar 2 are some of my favorite childhood games that I never would have been able to enjoy without Working Designs. Were some of their pop culture references a little egregious? Sure. Did they fiddle with difficulty? Yup. Did I care as a kid? Not at all. Even now I look at the changes that were made and can realize that I was still able to plow right through them as a kid that didn't put too much critical thought into RPG battle systems and just brute forced most things.

In the end, they brought over some of my favorite titles growing up, and the ones I didn't play as a kid and have since tried as an adult are also fantastic stuff. You can complain about changes or localization choices in hindsight, but me? I choose to appreciate the fact that I got to enjoy Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete back when I was growing up instead of having to wait 20-odd years for someone to fan translate it.

I can't say that their presence is missed much these days, and there's little need for them in the kind of market we have today, along with the number of fans that seem ready to jump on a fan translation the minute it becomes apparent something isn't getting localized, but they were people bringing over good games that nobody else would in an era where a good half of the games released or more never left Japan. I appreciate Supper's work towards fixing the unnecessary changes that were made under their localization, but at the end of the day, their goofy decisions still made it possible for those of us who were kids at the time to enjoy some fantastic stuff that would otherwise have been inaccessible. Even if their design practice was questionable, they still did us all a huge solid.

Well yeah. And while that is true no one else would do it, the point of it remains is that the Unworking Designs project is suppose to fix up the bad translations of the games and letting others experience the games from how they were from Japan. Like what they did with Cosmic Fantasy 2 for example.

Escaeva

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Have you tried using a frontend such as xdeltaUI to try patching the files?

Thank you for the reply.

I tried using it...so I understand select the patch...then source file as .bin1? or .cue? and output file just any name? I got an error XD3_INVLID_INPUT.....I feel like I'm getting closer though!

And thank YOU for your amazing romhacking work! Never thought I'd be able to play Megami Tensei II for the famicom in English among others....your a legend!~
« Last Edit: June 18, 2022, 10:24:40 am by Escaeva »

FlamePurge

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Well yeah. And while that is true no one else would do it, the point of it remains is that the Unworking Designs project is suppose to fix up the bad translations of the games and letting others experience the games from how they were from Japan. Like what they did with Cosmic Fantasy 2 for example.
i know that the project collection is misnamed, but un-worked designs doesn't change the translations at all, aside from some typo correction. it's purely just reverting the gameplay changes. (in fact i've seen some people fuss about un-worked designs under the impression that they're full retranslations while keeping working designs' gameplay. insane, i know.)
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Escaeva

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Thanks for your reply,

I mean I don't know how to manually apply this patch with xdelta using command lines.

I tried doing it but it was met with failure haha. I'm using Windows 8, I tried making my bin/cue files into an ISO but it made into a SINGLE iso without the .wav files needed for the iso hack.

Is there an easy to use program for converting bin/cue to ISO's with multiple wav like the patch needs?

Here is what I did;
1. Applied the Battle Reduction patch to bin1 (Vay). That seems to work fine.
2. put all the contents of the Unworked patch and the bin/cue files in the same folder.
3. Tried dropping the bin file on the binpatcher which didn't seem to work. When I did it with the vay.cue file it created the unworked .bin files BUT all 1kb and the rom would not load.  :banghead:

Any help is appreciated, a ELI5 style explanation would be greatly appreciated!

I realize maybe I should have asked his in the beginner board, sorry,

So I think I'm almost there...I just have a question about the BinChunker command prompts,

So after navigating to the folder with the .bin/.cue files (which are named "Vay (USA).cue" and "Vay (USA (Track01).bin (through track 22)

I enter

bchunk -w Vay (USA).bin Vay (USA).cue Vay (USA)_

but I get the message "could not open BIN vay (USA).bin: no such file or directory.

If I do the same but

bchunk -w "Vay (USA) (Track 01).bin" "Vay (USA).cue" "Vay (USA)_"

It generates the 22 proper files but all are like 44 kb except "Vay (USA)_22.wav which is 141 mb

Am I entering the wrong command prompt? Do I need to enter each Track individually?  :-[

Thanks for reading.

-Kiri

Pennywise

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You have to apply the patches to the BINs as those are basically ROMs. CUE files are essentially a table of contents for the BIN.

Escaeva

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Just an update for anyone interested

insane has released an updated Version of the Vay: Battle Rate Reduction Patch!

This includes versions that work with the original and Unworked Designs Patch!

Makes the game MUCH MUCH more enjoyable and the difficulty hits the sweet spot!

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/6814/


« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 11:23:25 pm by Escaeva »