11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Started by Supper, January 17, 2017, 04:59:17 PM
Quote from: Supper on February 17, 2017, 12:53:57 AMGonna try to finish up with the script corrections tonight (15 maps to go), then fix the handful of remaining gameplay/graphics changes (turns out LunarNET knew a couple things I didn't). After that I'll do a quick test run through the game, and hopefully then it'll be good to go.
Quote from: vivify93 on February 17, 2017, 10:54:19 AMSounds great, I'm excited! Will you be implementing the new font in Lunar 2 as well?
Quote from: Supper on February 01, 2017, 05:00:39 PMI didn't know about rental games being banned in Japan, though -- that's really nuts. Seems like Japanese law is way too corporate-friendly, at least when it comes to games.
Quote from: GHANMI on February 03, 2017, 07:20:48 AMHave you been already noticed by senpai...?It's funny how much hate torrent is coming your way from there about being a purist weaboo not understanding the unreachable secrets of the localisation craft, despite the patches still not including translation changes, or Vic Ireland himself admitting that Exile 2 and Lunar 2's balance changes were indeed a mistake, among other similar less direct comments explaining why they had to do these changes, not that they were good or improvements in any way (about Silhouette Mirage, Popful Mail, and other games).
Quote from: Supper on January 17, 2017, 04:59:17 PMSo if you haven't heard the story by now, Working Designs was an American game publisher in the '90s that specialized in licensing niche Japanese games, totally rewriting their scripts to insert crude jokes and pop culture references, completely wrecking their difficulty by jacking up all the enemies' stats and adding other cheap impediments, then releasing them in the US. (If you like the sound of that, these patches probably aren't for you.)Most of the games they put out are sufficiently esoteric that no one's interested in doing a retranslation, so often, these butchered versions are the only way to play the games in English. That seemed like a real shame to me, so lately I've been working on this little project to restore the gameplay from the Japanese versions of these games. Since I'm not a translator, I can't do anything about the made-up dialogue, but I'm aiming to at least get the difficulty back to what it was intended to be (and for Lunar, to get the script in lower case!).
Quote from: Unworked Designs Popful Mail Patch v2 NotesOther changes in the US version (e.g. the new title screen music, using C instead of Start to open the menu, the horrible horrible made-up script) have been kept.
Quote from: Unworked Designs Lunar 2 Patch v2 NotesThis is a patch that fixes many issues introduced in the US version of the Sega CD game Lunar: Eternal Blue by its publisher, Working Designs. As you're probably aware if you're reading this, the US release of the game was heavily bastardized; ...* The opening cutscene, which was mildly censored for the US version, has been replaced with its Japanese version. This has the not-unpleasant side effect of removing the obnoxious Working Designs credits. (They're still in the ending.)(Ed: Cheering about removing the original localizers/voice actors credits from the game is kind of disrespectful. Given the tone about the removal in the opening it is ambiguous if Supper's comment about the ending credits is and admission to assure the reader that credit is given at the end, or disappointment at not being able to remove it at the end.)
Quote from: Supper on February 02, 2017, 10:12:41 AMMy main point here is that the rewritten script might be subjectively "better" or "worse" than the original, depending on your tastes, but it's just that -- rewritten. It's not presenting the Japanese more effectively, it's making up something new. And do see Vic's insane defense of the changes, as quoted above (from a Gaijinworks thread about these very hacks, I might add).
Quote from: Victor Ireland 1-3-2017My localization philosophy has been evolving over the last 25 years! You have to remember, when I started, there were no real guidelines - you had pretty much direct translations, or...nothing. Localizing content the way I did it was pretty revolutionary, and while it was over-the-top initially (again, nothing to use as a guide in the beginning), it's evolved over time. That said, almost everyone else doing Jrpgs headed my direction to varying degrees once I laid it all down and we started releasing games localized in a very different way from what was out back then. The rep for Game Arts said it best one of the times he was visiting. He said, "For such a small company, you cast a long shadow."LUNAR PSX translations were based on the SEGA CD version to a point. LUNAR 2 was supposed to be Zach writing it, but I ended up re-writing quite a bit of what he did, because he had just broken up with one of the other employees at WD and wrote the female characters (most notably Jessica) like total bitches and sex objects, which was wildly inappropriate. Then I had to finish what was left (while recording in the studio, too), because when the text was supposed to be done, he wasn't even close, making excuses about computer crashes, etc that were total BS. It's also the reason Nall is talking about stuff that isn't there in the PSX version of LUNAR 2 in the cave. That was copied verbatim from the SEGA CD version by Zach and missed in the rush to rewrite/finish the text by me. It was really a terrible last 1/4 of that project.
Quote from: Supper on February 01, 2017, 05:00:39 PMIf anyone is interested in comparing the JP/EN scripts for themself, I can upload my dialogue extraction tools.
Quote from: MadoKage on February 18, 2017, 07:28:25 PMMost of the patches works on Wii-Mednafen and Genesis GX Plus (Genesis Emulator for Wii)The only problem I have is Lunar Eternal Blue, in the crystal cutscene, when the screen fades to black and shows the moon, it does some strange loop and it desyncs through the whole cutscenethis doesn't happen on Fusion
Quote from: Furluge on February 18, 2017, 12:47:45 PM
Quote from: Supper on February 19, 2017, 01:29:33 AMIn case anyone missed my earlier post, you'll notice I haven't changed the cutscene subtitles (they're still in all caps, or missing entirely in voiced scenes). Those are a major headache to edit, so I haven't bothered with them yet. I may add them in a later version of the patch.
Quote from: Furluge on February 18, 2017, 12:47:45 PM-Snip-
Quote from: Digitsie on February 19, 2017, 03:03:58 PMBeing hearing impaired, lack of subtitles in voiced scenes annoy the heck out of me too. I don't know how you're gonna add them in though.
Quote from: DantzB on February 19, 2017, 04:42:16 PMJesus, did really have to white knight Victor like that? *Some* of the things they did were great *at the time*, the rest have aged like milk in the sun.If he wants to be critical of the quality of the games, he's not wrong too. A lot of the stuff Wrecking Designs did is objectively bad, thus them earning the name.
Quote from: Piotyr on February 19, 2017, 04:45:46 PMHeck that quote from Victor even says when they started it was a new thing and not everything they did was the right thing to do.
Quote from: Midna on February 19, 2017, 04:21:53 AMAlso, Battletoads was a Rare (based in the UK) production.
Quote from: Midna on February 19, 2017, 04:21:53 AMIt's possible to be appreciative and critical of someone at the same time.
Quote from: Kallisto on February 19, 2017, 07:53:25 AMOo..there was a female half nude monster in the SegaCD version of Lunar 1? Just how different was this game compared to the remakes!?
Quote from: DantzB on February 19, 2017, 04:48:58 PMThe blatant white knighting is what bothers me the most though, as if Ireland is going to spontaneously burst into tears because somebody harshly criticized his work.
Quote from: Furluge on February 19, 2017, 05:31:31 PMTL;DR: Yeah I understand why you might not like the translation 20 years later but that doesn't mean you need to be an asshole about it.
Quote from: Sara-chan on February 19, 2017, 05:52:42 PMYou know, balance changes are such an interesting topic to me in general when comparing regional versions of games. I've sometimes had suggestions made about (mostly very minor) balance changes for things I've worked on professionally, though rarely did anything make it in. When I worked on Bunny Must Die's official English PC release, though, it was really interesting because I was handed a version with way different balance and various changes compared to the version people knew to begin with, even before the localization process begin.I wonder how many times stuff like that ended up being a case of that? It certainly has been the case many times, for games that were basically "further finished" for their overseas releases. I find it fascinating.
Quote from: Piotyr on February 19, 2017, 05:54:14 PMOnce you put something up for sale you lose any right to have your feelings protected in this sort of thing.People paid for Lunar and got fart jokes, we are allowed to call it what it is, a bastardization. If this was a fan translation I could see how you would want us to be more respectful since it was done using someones free time but this was his job. I don't care if it was one of the first, I don't care if it paved the way for the future, in the end it is a bad translation and I will gladly call it like I see it.I cut him some slack but I don't cut his work the same slack.
Quote from: Furluge on February 19, 2017, 05:31:31 PMSince you aren't catching the nuiance of what I have been trying to say, here is a TL;DR just for youTL;DR: Yeah I understand why you might not like the translation 20 years later but that doesn't mean you need to be an asshole about it.(Or I dunno DantzB, maybe you think removing stuff like credits from someone's work is cool or something?)
Quote from: DantzB on February 19, 2017, 06:56:20 PMTl;dr, you're butthurt over something 99%, that even give a shit about this in the first place, thinks is bad. Shitty localization is shitty localization. Mario 2 = good localization, Yakuza 3 = shitty, and various games in between with varying offences.And about the credits, I think it's a little funky but who the hell really cares (besides you?) People who've already played Lunar are these patches main audience and I bet most don't even give a shit in the first place.
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