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Author Topic: I\'m designing my own 3D Goemon clone - set in ancient Israel, not ancient Japan  (Read 5236 times)

PunkFrog

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The working title is Amashi (which is also the name of the protagonist), and it is a 3D platformer/action RPG in the same vein as the first Mystical Ninja on N64. I feel that Jewish culture, especially as told from a Jewish perspective (i.e. not Western/Roman Catholic/etc), is extremely under represented, so I want to be the first to change that. Plus, I'm tired of waiting for Konami to make a new Goemon, so I've decided to do it myself, only with a Hebrew spin on it. So far, I've compiled a basic plotline (which is really just an excuse for Amashi to travel the land of Israel and smash demons :D), a bestiary (see below), and some gameplay ideas. Amashi ben Ishmerai starts off as a shepherd in a small village, living with his elder Shammua, wife Na'arah, and daughter Tamar. But while he is away, his city is destroyed by the plishtim (basically the Hebrew name for Philistines, which means "invaders"). The entire village is slaughtered, and all of the women and children are taken as slaves. Amashi, of course, is having none of it, and decides to go after the Philistines using his shepherd's cane as a makeshift bo-staff. He makes his way to their stronghold, but before he can confront their king (who has already set sail on his ship, slaves in tow), he is attacked by the Lotan (Leviathan) beast. Although the Lotan is defeated, it collapses onto Amashi's ship, catapulting him all the way to Mount Azazel, where he battles an army of se'irim (the Near Eastern version of satyrs) and defeats Azazel, the Se'ir king. Arriving in Yerushalayim (Jerusalem), he tries to enter the temple to pray to Elohim/YHWH, but is denied entry. This means he must seek permission from the king, leading to a romp through a trap laden palace in the center of Jerusalem, ending in a confrontation with Solomon's guardian golem. The king is outraged and forbids him from entering the temple, so he has to sneak in. El hears Amashi's prayers, and instructs him to seek out the powers of the other gods (basically the gods of our polytheistic/Canaanite pagan ancestors) so that he may eventually defeat Ashmedai (the demon king who is responsible for the return of the plishtim), reunite with his family, and bring peace back to Israel.

Yeah, it's not the most original story of all time, but I am still reasonably confident in it. After all, there aren't many games out there with a Middle Eastern setting (let alone an ancient Hebrew one) where you aren't playing as some American soldier gunning down al-Qaeda or whatever. I have a lot of ambition for it. I just hope I'm not biting off more than I can chew. :D

January 17, 2017, 12:50:33 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I tried to post the full bestiary, but it wouldn't let me since it's too long.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 12:50:33 am by PunkFrog »

Grimoire LD

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That's a shame that you couldn't post the full bestiary, I'd try a free notepad like site (the main one is skipping my mind at the moment) to put it on and then link to it. This is an intriguing story and as you mentioned a classical Jewish video game is... well basically non existent, so it's also expanding the field. I'm looking forward to see where you go forward with this.

PunkFrog

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A bestiary and god description.

Undead warriors: skeletons wearing traditional Hebrew battle armor and head coverings.

Scorpions: self-explanatory.

Plishtim: Philistine warriors.

Golem: short clay/mud dolls vaguely resembling humans. The color of their head coverings (pink, green, blue, or purple) will determine what weapons they carry. Pink is default, green carries a curved sword, blue shoots projectiles, and purple carries a shield.

Solomon's guardian golem: a gigantic golem, more powerful than any other. Wields a giant sword. It is the boss of Solomon's palace.

Doll shooters (name still in progress): based on ancient Canaanite figurines/dolls. They shoot things at you. These are a few examples.

Corrupt wooden dolls: self-explanatory, here are some examples.

I also plan to include one of the Israelite high priest, see here:

The high priest is in the center.

Cherubim: statues are gold in color and modeled after the Canaanite cherubim. A fresco or mosaic of a cherub carrying a flaming sword and standing before the tree of life will appear in certain temples.

Demonic cherubim: torso and tail of a horse, scales of a reptile, wings of a bird, and a demonic red human face with horns and a black beard/eyes.

Double headed demonic cherubim: same as a default demonic cherub, but without the reptile scales and horns. The double headed cherubim has both a demonic human head and a lion head facing in opposite directions, and carries hot coals in its hands. It is red in color.

Four headed demonic cherubim: same as the double headed cherubim, only it has a demonic human head in addition to a lion's head, an eagle's head, and a default cherub head. This version also carries coals.

Avenging Cherub: looks similar to a regular cherub, but is much larger.

Se'irim: satyrs that are more goat than human, fully covered in fur. They dance in the wilderness and do *not* resemble the Greek satyr.

Azazel the Se'ir King: a larger, more regal, and more powerful version of regular se'irim. He is the boss of Mount Azazel.

Seraphim: body of a scaly serpent with a scorpion stinger at the end, demonic face with horns, eagle wings, and a reptilian tongue.

Flying Seraphim: an airborne seraph that is engulfed in flames, has red skin, and possesses a demonic reptilian face as opposed to a human one. It breathes fire.

Burning Seraphim: resembles a human with four wings, two of which can shield his face, and has hair resembling the sun. It rides on a cloud of smoke and has a demonic human face.

Serpentine Seraphim: a seraph that roughly resembles a demonic mermaid, with flames emanating from its ears.

Behemot: a massive land dwelling monster with the face of an elephant and body of a hippo, residing near the northern springs.

Lotan: an enormous multi-colored seven headed dragon with seven serpentine scorpion tails.

Ziz: a colossal griffin-like bird whose wings can blot out the sun when unfurled.

Mazzikim: harmful spirits, very similar to Arabian genies.

Adramelekh: a demon with a human torso, mule's head, peacock tail, and peacock limbs

Shedim: desert dwelling demons that are half human/half eagle. They are similar to tengus of Japanese mythology.

Dabaqim: possessed humans with dark black skin and pupil-less red eyes.

Aluqah: female vampires with turquoise skin and drenched all manner of jewelry.

Khol: sand birds.

Winged sorcerer: similar in appearance to an Israelite king, only with four wings.

Pazuzah: two pairs of wings, head of a dog, talons of an eagle, scorpion's tail. Appears in the southern deserts.

Utukkah: humanoid lion-esque demons that carry weapons.

Lilit: a screeching owl-like demon queen whose lair is not far from Be'ersheva. She regularly steals children from the town.

Amelekite bandits: thieves dwelling in the southern desert.

Nephilim: shadowy giants with two eyes and no other facial features.

Sheshai, Talmai, and Ahiman: 3 mountain dwelling giants near Hevron. They have hairy faces and a single eye, and they all wield giant clubs.

Tannin: enormous sea dwelling crocodile with a double tail.

Nakhash: a trickster serpent who lives near lake Kinneret and attempts to trick Amashi into consuming a poisonous fruit.

Asherim: trees decorated lavishly with idols, incense, chains of precious metals, and pendants. They are not enemies.

Takhash: multi-colored creature that dispenses helpful advice.

Agrat bat Mahlat: demon queen

Ashmedai: demon king, and final boss

Shekels: money

Pomegranates: restores partial health

Gad: God of luck who only appears in statue form. He has turquoise skin, a golden robe, and a black beard. Collect 4 to increase overall health.

Golden lion statues: extra life.

Papyri: checkpoint.

Khamsa: defense against magic.

Elohim/Yahweh: appears only in golden figurine form (under asherim and at certain shrines) and as a large statue (at Solomon's palace) throughout the game. Speaks to Amashi in Solomon's Temple as a disembodied voice. This is what he looks like:

Anat: appears in large shrine (basically a temple/dungeon) outside of the city of Anatot. She has yellow skin, red eyes, and black hair. She wears a golden helmet, grey skirt, a belt made of severed hands, and a necklace made of skulls. Her weapons consist of both an axe and a spear. She empowers Amashi's staff and trains him in combat (enabling him to learn new combos) when she is defeated.

Arsai: appears in a large shrine located deep in the jungle of the river Jordan, and has brown skin, long flowing black hair, and red eyes. She is the goddess of floods, and bestows the powers of tempest to Amashi when defeated.

Asherah: appears in Yerushalayim as a giant golden statue. She also appears as a golden figurine and on frescoes in certain countryside shrines (some miniature, some slightly bigger) and under asherim. She is half naked, carries a date palm leaf in each hand, sits on a pile of skulls, wearing elaborate jewelry, and has a distinctly Near Eastern crown.

Ashtoret: appears as a figurine and on frescoes in harems. As the goddess of love, she has voluptuous, exotic features.

Attar: appears in statue form at resting spots throughout the countryside, representing the morning star. Brown skin, golden eyes, black hair, carries a staff with a silver morning star on it, and has a silver morning star on his forehead. He wears a purple robe, blue cape, and golden bracelets.

Ba'al Hadad: god of storms and rain, appears in his own temple on Mount Eval where his powers are being blocked by the Ziz, who is perched on top of it. Destroying the monsters in his temple results in him bestowing you with the power of lightning, which you can use to defeat the Ziz. He wears miniature loins (or skirt, forgot what they are called), a helmet, and carries a sword in one hand and a bolt of lightning in the other.

Dagon: appears as a giant mermaid with the top half being brown skinned and the bottom "fish" half being multi-colored. He appears in a large temple at Lake Kinneret, and bestows earth powers to Amashi once he is defeated.

Elsh: El's cup bearer, does not have a particularly important role, only appearing in figurine form in shrines dedicated to El. Has a green skirt, olive skin, black hair, green eyes, and a ram's horns.

Eshmun: god of healing, figurines of him appear at inns. See:

Ittum: god of sheep, appears on Har Azazel after defeating Azazel the Se'ir King. He resembles an anthropomorphic goat with a blue robe and a staff similar to Amashi's. He does not have any powers to bestow, but directs you to Yerushalayim.

Khemosh: appears as mini-boss in Anat's shrine, and is holding her captive. Gold helmet/bracelets, demonic red skin, black beard, green eyes, grey and brown armor/kneepads, and is equipped with a shield and spear.

Khoron: appears in large shrine in Kadesh and has control over snakes. His face turns black with rage when he sees any type of serpent disrespected. He has yellow skin, a black beard, a black helmet, black eyes, a red shirt, and a black skirt. Although he is a boss, Amashi does not acquire anything when he is defeated.

Kinaru: appears in wealthier houses in figurine form as the god of the lyre and music. Sometimes these figurines come to life and play music.

Kottar: appears in Eylat, has a blue face, white robe with Egyptian colors/embellishments, and tools for forging weapons. He works on Amashi's staff, crafting it into an even more powerful weapon while also granting him some more magical powers.

Mavet/Mot: god of death, appears in underworld palace just before you ascend Har Pisgah (where Ashmedai and Agrat bat Mahlat await). He has dark brown skin, demonic red eyes, white horns and fangs, demonically pointed ears, a golden head bracelet, black cape and robe, and a grey shirt.

Melqart: appears in figurine inside and outside of training buildings (you might call them "dojos"). He has a muscular build, black beard, and a blue robe.

Molokh: appears in shrine of Gei Hinnom, just outside of Yerushalayim. Green skin, red beard, eyes, and horns, golden bracelets with large red jewels embedded on them, golden Near Eastern crown, red loins and orange shirt with exposed chest. He plays a terrifying drum beat as he leads children into the fire. Bestows powers of fire when defeated.

Nebo: appears on frescoes in city libraries, has a green robe with white clothing underneath, pale skin, green eyes, green hat, and black hair/beard. He also carries a papyri and writing utensil.

Nikkal: appears in large temple at the sea of Kinneret. Her skin is dark purple, has green eyes, light purple hat and shirt, dark green skirt, and grey hair. She is the goddess of fruits and restores fertility to the land once she is freed.

Pidrai: goddess of mists, appears in large shrine just outside of Yahaza. Once defeated, she grants the powers of mist. She has golden hair and eyes, yellow skin, and tan robe/shirt.

Resheph: appears in the palace near the Dead Sea. He is the cause of the plagues that have been affecting the townspeople. He is a red robed archer whose arrows can poison or immobilize Amashi. His skin is yellow, his beard and eyes are blue, and his hat is the same color as his robe. Once he is defeated, Amashi will be immune to poison.

Shadrapa: appears in figurine form at taverns, yellow skin, blue eyes, white cape and skirt, and is depicted holding a lion by its tail in one hand, and a club in the other.

Shakhar: appears on frescoes at inns, symbolizing morning. He has golden skin with orange eyes, hat, and skirt.

Shalim: appears on frescoes at inns, symbolizing dusk. He has bronze skin, dark blue eyes, and a turquoise hat/skirt.

Shapash: appears on frescoes at inns, holding up the sun. She has bronze skin, red eyes, orange skirt, yellow shirt and hat (the hat has a red winged emblem on it), and orange wings.

Sheger: appears at shrines in Gezer, is depicted as a brown anthropomorphic bull with a grey staff and a maroon colored robe/eyes.

Tallai: appears at shrines in the more arid regions of Israel. She has bronze skin, blue eyes, black hair, a dark blue robe, and a light blue skirt.

Ugar: appears at certain shrines in the Galilee fields. Has olive skin, green eyes, black hair, and green skirt/hat.

Yam: appears in large temple off the coast of Dor. He summons the Tannin in retaliation for Amashi slaying the Lotan early on in the game. He has turquoise skin, blue beard, green robes, a dark blue crown, red eyes, a light blue staff, has watery angel wings.

Yarikh: appears as a damaged statue in Yerikho, and on frescoes at inns, holding up the moon. He has light grey skin, a dark grey robe/hat, a blue beard, and blue eyes.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 02:12:36 am by PunkFrog »

Jorpho

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I have a lot of ambition for it. I just hope I'm not biting off more than I can chew. :D
It seems like you've put quite a bit of thought into this, but announcing grand game design plans seems to be a surefire way to ensure they will never come to fruition.
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PunkFrog

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I really let my dreams run wild when thinking about it, so I suppose you're right. It's just something I hope I can actually make one day. I've already put so much love into it.


Spooniest

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Practically speaking, you are talking about a full re-model (the people and monsters), making new backgrounds from scratch (I don't know if Ancient Japan is exactly suggestive of Middle Eastern architecture), doing new music (on the N64 spu!), and rewriting the dialogue to tell your story (which is killer, by the way, and I love it).

That is...hm...if I was gonna hazard a guess...at least a 5 person job, not including coding I don't think, so with the addition of a programmer or two, that's 7 people working for...I dunno.

Let's say 8 months? You don't have to do controls, physics or collision detection, so that saves some time, but 8 months with a team of 7 would be my estimate.

And you are going off of Goemon for the N64, so this is a held IP, you won't be able to sell it. So you better find 6 people with the talents you need and really be their friend, or offer to pay out of pocket, I'd say. You wanna code it from scratch, then your programmers are gonna want money I think.

If you're planning to do all this yourself, I'll see you in 2022. :)
Yamero~~!

PunkFrog

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By Goemon clone, I didn't mean literally cloning the game and slapping a Middle Eastern setting on it. It's an original game that I intend to build from scratch. Perhaps I should have said "Goemon inspired".

Assuming the game ever officially starts development, I probably won't be doing it alone.

Spooniest

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From scratch, and without experience (I presume you've never tried to do this before), you are looking at 18 months with a 7 person team.

4 weeks a month, 5 days a week, 8 hours a day...

That's...hm...

(Gets out calculator)

Nearly 3,000 billable hours of work...maybe a bit much, but that's what I guess I'd call a conservative estimate.

You can't just rip Goemon N64's control, physics, and collision detection code, you said "from scratch." You are talking about creating Ancient Israel on N64-style hardware.

My advice to you is: pick an easier system to work with. People were complaining to NO END back in 1995-6 about how hard the N64's architecture is to create games for. Its library never got to be very large, by comparison to other platforms. Ditto the Saturn, from what I hear. It's kind of the reason the PSX dominated that gen. I mean, I could be remembering wrong, maybe it was just that Nintendo are greedy assholes when it comes to per-cartridge royalty contracts. I don't think the N64 was a great system to develop for either, to be honest.

I'd go with the PSX if I were you. Possibly look at taking Metal Gear Solid apart (I think it might be the code monster of the system, tbh...more complex than anything else released for the thing), and learning from what you see there. There are, additionally, many PSX games (FF7-9, Tomb Raider, Doom) that are also or were originally on PC, which I'm assuming is what you will use to code the thing.

Someone with more programming knowledge will no doubt have a far more detailed account to give to you of what this will take, but I'd go into it expecting to hire 6 people, do most of the work yourself, and have it done in 18 months.

That's my take.
Yamero~~!

Vehek

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Where was it ever said this project is a retro homebrew game? It may be inspired by a game from that era, but that's not the same as wanting it on the same hardware.

PunkFrog

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Where was it ever said this project is a retro homebrew game? It may be inspired by a game from that era, but that's not the same as wanting it on the same hardware.

Thank you.

I'm also aiming for it to look better than an N64 game, but I don't know if I'll be able to do that. It could end up being a 2D game for all I know. That would be disappointing, but it's better than nothing.

SunGodPortal

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I'm also aiming for it to look better than an N64 game, but I don't know if I'll be able to do that.

You've got it backwards. It would be pretty difficult to make a 3D game these days that looked as bad as 3D games from the 90's.
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PunkFrog

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You've got it backwards. It would be pretty difficult to make a 3D game these days that looked as bad as 3D games from the 90's.

I guess I still have a lot to learn.

I'm going back to school to learn programming and whatever else I need to start my own indie studio. I've also thought of going with a Japanese art style for this game. I know a guy who is really good with anime art.

Jorpho

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It would be pretty difficult to make a 3D game these days that looked as bad as 3D games from the 90's.
Aren't people cranking out crappy Minecraft clones left and right these days?  Of course, that's not really the same.

I guess I still have a lot to learn.

I'm going back to school to learn programming and whatever else I need to start my own indie studio.
The staggering number of Kickstarter projects that failed miserably, or that were fully funded and then failed miserably, speaks to the enormous difficulties involved here.
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PunkFrog

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I need to pray that I'm one of the lucky ones then.

SunGodPortal

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Aren't people cranking out crappy Minecraft clones left and right these days?  Of course, that's not really the same.

Yeah, that doesn't count because it's a stylistic choice. That would be like complaining that a punk or black metal album has crummy production values.

I need to pray that I'm one of the lucky ones then.

*fingers crossed*
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Jorpho

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I need to pray that I'm one of the lucky ones then.
I'd be inclined to exclaim "You make your own luck!" – but no, that's not true.  You need to be in the right place at the right time, to say the right things to the right people, who will then give you the tools you need and send you down the path ... to the next right place you need to be at the right time, and so on.  And then the years go by and you find that you're actually some place completely different from the original destination you set out for, but you make your peace with it, since it's actually not such a bad place and you picked up some pretty neat tools along the way and you're doing other things with them now.

So, yeah, pray that you're one of the lucky ones.
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PunkFrog

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My plan right now is to develop my ideas as much as possible on my own before fielding them to anyone else. This way, should anyone agree to fund it or join me, it's less likely that there will be crippling fundamental changes to my vision. The art style I have in mind right now is similar to this, albeit much more detailed and with more of a Japanese flair.


Jorpho

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it's less likely that there will be crippling fundamental changes to my vision.
I am left with the impression that you currently don't even known how to program.  "Fundamental changes" are quite inevitable at this juncture.  It's like planning to make a marble sculpture when you've never even picked up a hammer and chisel.

And anyone with sufficient skill to bring an exhaustively-developed vision to life probably has other ideas that he or she would prefer to work on.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 09:34:07 am by Jorpho »
This signature is an illusion and is a trap devised by Satan. Go ahead dauntlessly! Make rapid progres!

PunkFrog

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That's because I don't. I'm going to school to learn how.

But I am losing confidence, admittedly.

MitsukuHackbot

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But I am losing confidence, admittedly.

Nothing worth doing is easy.