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Author Topic: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation  (Read 43425 times)

Mugi

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #60 on: April 23, 2017, 07:11:04 am »
Im working on the engine side for now until i figure out what to do with it. (or something else that I find worth doing.) I have plenty of projects that could use my attention
(utawarerumono portable, utawararerumono 2, utawarerumono 3, girlfriend of steel 2nd still needs a bugfix patch, the first girlfriend of steel i hacked some aeons ago and could just work out too, magna carta for psp is halfway there, the list is endless...), but ultimately they all have the same issue; they're missing a translator. I could google translate things and spit out a new translation patch once a week if i so wished, but what good would that serve ?. not much.

To be honest with you, the thought of just recompiling my own version of the script to put back things i didnt like you changed did cross my mind, but I figured that's not a cool way to roll, If i was translating this game, and someone would just silently take up the entire script i worked on being all "it's so nice and all" and then just change it without saying a thing, i'd be more upset than the fact i was directly told something doesnt personally please me.

i voiced my opinion to you since i thought that we are working on this together and whether or not we would agree on this or that, it would atleast be fair to discuss the matter. i can't put enough weight on the fact that what i told you is simply my stance on it, and even so, the script work is still yours to do as you wish. I'm pretty sure i would enjoy the game just as much whether or not you changed X's or Y's name to suit your tastes better, and i honestly didn't expect you to be upset enough about it to entirely hop off the project. We all have our opinions and preferences, there's no way to please everyone.

there is also the fact that since there is practically no material existing from zill o'll in english aside a few lists of character names and several location names, you could practically rewrite half of the game and i wouldn't even know it.

naturally i am working on this game because I want to play it and i want to get it translated so that i can play it, i would have to be completely out of my mind to take on a project of this magnitude if i wasnt doing it for myself. I never said i work only for myself, but obviously, I am my primary audience.

the reason why i said im dropping the project is because this is now the 4th time of me taking on this game, and im about had enough of running allover the internet like a retard trying to find someone who has even heard of it, let alone possesses necessary skills to do something with it. if people arent interested, then they aren't interested. I can't do it myself and now its just not worth my time and effort anymore.
The combined time i've already used on this game i could have used to spit out some 3-4 moderately sized games fully hacked off for someone to translate. This is my #1 game to work on ever since 1999, but i have my limits too.

speaking of porting the soundtrack from the ps1 version anyway, that's not the only thing i ported from it :P

(still a WIP)



« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 07:25:16 am by Mugi »
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Tom

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #61 on: April 23, 2017, 08:07:56 am »
If you never told me that you made a private version for yourself, and changed the names to whatever you saw fit... Why would I care? I wouldn't even know that you did it.  On the other hand, telling me that my translation style made you cringe... Obviously, I'm going to care more about that. Maybe I shouldn't let my ego get the best of me, though.

From my perspective, yes, the fan base is small (even in Japan, it's not exactly a mainstream title)... If the English patched version is someone's first experience with the game, and they see the name "Karula," it won't seem familiar to them like it does to you. They haven't read the guidebooks and artbooks and all of that.  It will just look like Engrish, and their opinion of the game will not be as good as it might have been otherwise. They won't care that the spelling doesn't match a Japanese artbook. They won't care about what honorific was used or removed. They won't insist that Lulluantha refers to herself in the third person like she does in Japanese. If they did, they'd have to be pretty darn familiar with the Japanese script, and if so, then why would they be playing the English patch?

Anyway, I don't want to crush your dream. I'll resume work on it, if you want. And I'll even give you my blessing to make whatever edits you see fit to your own private copy. I feel kinda bad that I'm not the ideal translator for the project, but I'll man up and offer to help again, if you're willing to take it.

Mugi

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #62 on: April 23, 2017, 08:45:02 am »
it's really up to you, as I said, if you work on it, it'll be your work, and I will not be editing it.

the keyword here is preference. I've sat on whatever little I've had from this game for almost 20 years now so obviously Im stuck on it.

But again like I said, changes such as changing the way Lulluantha refers to herself, or honorifics (I simply said from start, that when I do work on scripts, I tend to keep them as per my preference),
I honestly dont mind either way, it is just as it is, a preference. For instance, I did notice that Lulluantha refers to herself in 3rd person when I played the game in japanese, but changing that on the english patch never occurred to me. You, on the other hand decided that it'll be better if changed. Cool beans, so be it.
For honorifics in zill o'll... I'd propably prefer it without, the text doesnt read out in a way that it would serve any purpose to have Belzeva-sama running after Nemea-senpai. :P

If you want me to elaborate on that, it mostly comes from my earlier projects such as utawarerumono, from which the translator provided me very stiff, formal and generally rough translations as per my request, which I then typesetted alone to my liking. It really boils down to the type of game Im working on, and in the case of utawarerumono which is a wet dream of any weeaboo to begin with, I saw it very fitting to leave them as they are (not to mention that having them on the text matches the voicing, which again, we dont have in zill o'll.) Utawarerumono also has a character who refers to herself in 3rd person (must be a japanese thing ? :P) and I chose to leave that there too. I could have changed it, but didn't see the need to.

and if you're just thinking that im stone set on not changing anything from the canon, that's another miss, the msgsec000 file is a very solid proof of that.

When I provided you the initial script, I handed you several files already worked, including the msgsec000 containing every character name in the game, from which A LOT were already made non-canon by yours truly, simply because they just did not work, canon or not. The bottom line is that if I see something in your texts that I think would be left untouched, Im not afraid to voice my opinion about it, who knows, maybe you can listen to it and consider whether or not the choice you made was the right one. If not, then not.

I fully trust your judgement as far as making the script and the texts work as a whole, but just because you're an experienced translator and I'm not, doesnt mean you should simply not even listen to what I have to say and instantly jump off the project. we both work on it, not you only, not me only. That's what discussions are for.

can't please everyone is my favourite saying ever since I decided to do translation hacking.
I'm pretty sure there will be people from both sides on this game too (there always is) those who want the canon names and those who dont.
The fact that we have translated roms that incorporate things like choosing a set of translated skill names or romanized skill names on a game
(I forgot which game had this, some tales of phantasia maybe ?) is a good proof of that.

for those interested, this is what the typesetting of a noob looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw7GB0oSxi4 (first round of edits, still contained issues to solve.)
before anyone asks, utawarerumono is on hold due to aforementioned lack of translator. (the game is ~65% done)

what comes to being "preferred translator" I dont know, I'm having a little hard time sitting on this sentence to be honest. I'm flexible, and just because I happen to be used to certain type of translations doens't mean I dont enjoy the other types at all, and unlike this unfriendly potato who instantly labeled me as a weeaboo and obviously prefers your way over having honorifics and whatnots;

so basically mugi wants tv-nihon-tachi tier translation? ugh

I'm sure there are people who would like to have things like romanized skill names and/or honorifics and/or whatever else we possibly could hypotethically do in multiple ways.

edit: Im just putting this right here tho, If the project does continue for now, there wont be multiple variations of it with an attempt to pleave everyone, the game is enough work as it is. it will be hacked in a way I feel like hacking it, and translated in a way Tom feels like translating it. If it doesnt please someone, they can greet my ,,|,,
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 09:11:18 am by Mugi »
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Tom

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #63 on: April 23, 2017, 09:30:50 am »
I fully trust your judgement as far as making the script and the texts work as a whole, but just because you're an experienced translator and I'm not, doesnt mean you should simply not even listen to what I have to say and instantly jump off the project.

Hold on there.  You're saying I jumped off the project without listening at all, and that's just not true. I did listen to you. I understood your complaint fully about Karla/Karula, and I addressed it directly, but you said that it made you cringe, and at that point, it became more of an insult, rather than a simple suggestion or question. I listened, and I took it to heart. I realized that my translation would not be in line with your vision.

I wanted you to find a translator who WAS in line with your vision. I made the decision to back out fully expecting to find someone better suited to translate your dream project. You said that you were a perfectionist, and I didn't want you to have to settle. That's one of the reasons why I backed off. These are the two main reasons I did:

1. I felt insulted and depressed when you said my translation made you cringe.
2. I felt you could find someone better suited for your vision.

Hearing that it's nearly impossible to find a translator (and frustrating enough to make you quit trying entirely) made me put aside number 2, which meant the only reason I had to not work on it was my own ego. I can put that aside, but I would appreciate it if you didn't say that I'm not listening to what you say... Because I am.

The "canon" in this game is further complicated by the existence of Trinity: Souls of Zill O'll in English on the PS3. How many people who played the PS3 game will want those canon terms for a consistent experience, moving from the PS3 version to the PSP? What about the artbook canon? Which canon is more important? A serious argument could be made in favor of both, and neither one would be wrong.

I'm not trying to match the artbooks. I'm not trying to match up with the PS3 version either. If the artbook canon sounds better, I'll go with that. If the PS3 official canon sounds better, I'll go with that. If both of them seem off, I'll do something different. But whatever I do, I do it because I feel the script will be stronger for it.

GHANMI

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #64 on: April 23, 2017, 09:34:04 am »
so basically mugi wants tv-nihon-tachi tier translation? ugh

Do you think adding to the fire is helping this situation?
The previous screenshots don't have honorifics and you know it, and Tom and rainponcho aren't replying with the intention to dogpile on Mugi or expose him/her as a crazed weaboo - they're discussing creative differences in a pretty respectful way including romanisation choices for names already in English even in the Japanese version, and when deviating on them should be done. It was a creative difference that could be solved with a ctrl+f search&replace, but even before that everyone involved was pretty flexible and said upfront they're open for compromise.

You just want to get to say non-constructive stuff like this for your personal gratification. To be fair, it's the more effortless way to go when one can't contribute with actual help or constructive discussion. This is already a thankless job so there's no sense adding attacks and negativity on top of that.

Mugi

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #65 on: April 23, 2017, 10:11:43 am »
Hold on there.  You're saying I jumped off the project without listening at all, and that's just not true. I did listen to you. I understood your complaint fully about Karla/Karula, and I addressed it directly, but you said that it made you cringe, and at that point, it became more of an insult, rather than a simple suggestion or question. I listened, and I took it to heart. I realized that my translation would not be in line with your vision.

I wanted you to find a translator who WAS in line with your vision. I made the decision to back out fully expecting to find someone better suited to translate your dream project. You said that you were a perfectionist, and I didn't want you to have to settle. That's one of the reasons why I backed off. These are the two main reasons I did:

1. I felt insulted and depressed when you said my translation made you cringe.
2. I felt you could find someone better suited for your vision.

Hearing that it's nearly impossible to find a translator (and frustrating enough to make you quit trying entirely) made me put aside number 2, which meant the only reason I had to not work on it was my own ego. I can put that aside, but I would appreciate it if you didn't say that I'm not listening to what you say... Because I am.

The "canon" in this game is further complicated by the existence of Trinity: Souls of Zill O'll in English on the PS3. How many people who played the PS3 game will want those canon terms for a consistent experience, moving from the PS3 version to the PSP? What about the artbook canon? Which canon is more important? A serious argument could be made in favor of both, and neither one would be wrong.

I'm not trying to match the artbooks. I'm not trying to match up with the PS3 version either. If the artbook canon sounds better, I'll go with that. If the PS3 official canon sounds better, I'll go with that. If both of them seem off, I'll do something different. But whatever I do, I do it because I feel the script will be stronger for it.

I know i worded myself in a very bad manner and for that I apologize (again.) but I really got the feeling that you simply just quit the project because I did not happen to agree on a change you imposed into the script. I never asked you to not make the change, did I ? I asked you to reconsider it based on an argument I gave you, tacked along with the fact that it was indeed my personal preference.

What comes to my vision of how this game should be translated, If you really want to go there, we can do that, but I doubt that it will happen. I am a perfectionist indeed, up to the point it disgusts myself on most projects I deal with atleast in one occasion. If I can bend everything into my total control over the outcome of this game, then this is how it will happen:

you translate me the scripts as accurately as you possibly can disregarding anything else (linebreaks, space limitations, typesetting, weeabooism, whatever) and I will then single handedly proceed to rape your translation to match my weeabooism tastes, completely disregarding whatever it was you wanted from the game or it's texts. then I will throw out a patch for people, and you take the shit for doing an amateurish translation at best.

lets not go there okay?, im a perfectionist, but im also down to earth or whatever is the expression you wish to use, a realist :P
there are things I wish I could do but that are simply unattainable no matter how many years I put into it and how much im willing to waste time with it.

perfectionism is a really relative subject for me atleast, perfectionism is a pixel perfect font, a crisply graphic void of dithering left there by original developers, a fully translated script that is consistent over everything else.

my perfectionism is my biggest stepstone on anything I do because the little voice in my head always tells me that I need to do it the way I want, even though it's a piece of work completely out of my range.

that was also one of the major issues I faced when I decided that now is the time to finally get this game out there. I absolutely required it to be done by one single person, who will work through every single thing in the game. Why? one word. consistency. whatever else may happen, consistency must stay, and now that you have seen the script files and their layout with your own eyes, Im relatively sure you can understand why this game cannot be done by multiple translators.

I said earlier that im a flexible person, by that I did mean it, just because the way you changed some things was not what I would have chosen to do, doesnt mean I wont appreciate the work, or that I would somehow think it's cringey.
Just because I think the change of that one name is a cringey change, doesnt really weight much in the cup at the end of the day. I will live with the change, I will get used to it. it's also completely unrelated to the quality of your work as a translator. it's removing one letter from a name that was written in english on the official page of the game to begin with. dont really need a translator to do that change.

The cringe came from the fact that it was a really unexpected change in my eyes, I did not and still dont see any reason to make it. But since you did, then so be it.
To be honest, Im way more interested of seeing how are you going to solve this:

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Tom

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #66 on: April 23, 2017, 11:07:55 am »
I wrote a long response, but I erased it because it was pointless.
I'm going to end the discussion here; I'm tired of bickering about it.

I'll work on it again.
You do your part, and I'll do mine.

Here's what I need from you:

There is an NPC that crashes the game... A line that I don't believe I've edited, and I'm not sure why it crashes the game.

Create the iso using the files I've sent you, and go the item store after you get to Rostohl in the Small Town opening. Go down the stairs. You'll see two men. One is a blacksmith. The other crashes the game.

Also, one other question: Are some weapon names pieced together on the fly?

Lulluantha's weapon is named グランディア, however this string does not appear in the game's script. グラン and ディア do appear, but in separate listings, along with what might be other segments. Is the game piecing together parts of weapons and defensive gear names and arranging them on the fly? Or is this another one of those bits that doesn't appear in the main script?

Mugi

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2017, 11:41:44 am »
the weapon/armor and I believe accessory names do not appear in msgsec, they are inside a convoluted mess of a binary file located elsewhere,
here's the full list:

Spoiler:
ソード      Sword
グレートソード   Greatsword
スピア      Spear
アックス      Axe
ショートソード   Short sword
ボウ      Bow
ナックル      Knuckle
シールド      Shield
クロース      Robe
ブレストプレート   Breastplate
ボディアーマー   Body armor
プレートアーマー   Plate armor
素手      Bare hands
月光      Moonshine
剛刃      
浄化の月杖   
閃刃      
デスサイズ      
日光      Sunlight
七竜剣      
破滅の槍      
マジカルステッキ   
カフジエル      
アフ      
緋炎の宝剣   
ロッチナ      
蒼流の聖槍   
斬岩の霊斧   
疾風の魔弓   
バトルブレード   
破邪の剣      
ジンガハンマー   
いばらの杖      
神罰の鎚      
アルヒェ      
ソルベンジュ   
メテオフィスト   
封魔の槍      
ストラスエッジ   
賢者のローブ   
青の魔鎧      
黒のビスチェ      
ネメアの鎧      Nemea's armor
白のローブ      
派手な服      
エルフマント      
ヘヴンバインド   
革の鎧      Leather armor
貴族の外套   
奴隷呪縛衣   
ライジングサン   
樫の棒杖      
マジックヴォルト   
魔炎弾      
ランカ      
ランバーアクス   
竜破      
ウィンドミル      
閃光の弓      
アルトロン      
剛刃      
閃刃      
エメルの弓      
火柱の指輪   
流水の指輪   
沃土の指輪   
涼風の指輪   
清浄の指輪   
漆黒の指輪   
煉獄の腕輪   
流氷の腕輪   
大地の腕輪   
旋風の腕輪   
清廉の腕輪   
無常の腕輪   
闘士の心得   
必勝のお守り   
盗人奥義      
豪腕の首飾り   
体力の首飾り   
知恵の首飾り   
精神の首飾り   
敏速の首飾り   
技巧の首飾り   
朝日のお守り   
柔軟のお守り   
砕石のお守り   
光明のお守り   
不惑のお守り   
覚醒のお守り   
解毒のお守り   
饒舌のお守り   
祝福のお守り   
健脚のお守り   
灯火のお守り   
城塞の宝玉   
神秘の宝玉   
大空の羽飾り   
ゴーレムの腕輪   
水鳥の羽飾り   
火蜥蜴の腕輪   
戦神の腕輪   
智神の指輪   
運命神のピアス   
天空神の魔除け   
精霊母神の護符   
パワフルコイン   
ミスティコイン   
魔道の指輪   
マノンタリスマン   
普通のフライパン   
伝説のフライパン   
炎呪の手袋   
形見の剣      
魂狩の刃      
クルセウス      
ソリアスの戦斧   
水鏡のグローブ   
狂戦士の拳器   
ナックルダスター   
グランダガー      
大地の衣      
自作の槍      
深淵の鎚      
烈怒の槍      
バイアスのローブ   
シルフィード      
グランディア      
烈破の炎弓   
毛髪のローブ   
エプロンドレス   
火の巫女装束   

simply work on them and send the txt back to me and i will add it to the game (the texts have to be inserted manually with hex editor, we never bothered to make a separate tool for that one single task.)

the NPC in question is the npc that allows you to change the elements of your weapons, there shouldnt' be anything going on with him as i recall talking with him earlier during my initial tests.
it might have something to do with the new revision of the text tool. (i did state that the new multi line dumping mechanism that got us the missing lines is a bit scetchy, it's really hard to comprehensively test it with every possible scenario.) I'll take a look at it. It might also have something to do with the emulator, I found a new pile of things that cause the emulator to simply crash when encountered, and i tested in on more or less all possible versions of the scripts i had too, until i eventually tested it with the vanilla game... look and behold we have a crash... the emulator's instability with zill is really not helping the work.

im glad you decided to continue working on it, but I'm still going to type this out; you dont exactly owe me anything so if you really feel like dropping out of this, then by all means, do so. doing something as a hobby you dont enjoy doing serves no purpose whatsoever. Im working on this game because im still enjoying watching it all getting together piece by piece despite all the drawbacks it's had so far, if that changes, i will abandon the project myself without second thoughts. hobbies are for fun, not an extension of daily workload.


Edit: tested the NPC you said, and it does crash, however, it only crashes when i used all the files, if you exclude msgsec056 and msgsec133 from pami, it will function as intended, (both 056 and 133 are exceeding the 64kb filesize limit.)



edit2: forgot to say that the equipment list above is the one that is limited to 16 symbols per name, with little to no hope on lifting that restriction,
not only the file containing them is a complete mystery at the moment, using longer names will also lead to reforming of the entire menu layout. i will look into it if absolutely necessary, but from what i saw on that list with google translate so far, it should be manageable with said restriction in mind (replace necklace with amulet to shorten it, etc...)
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 12:04:33 pm by Mugi »
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ObiKKa

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #68 on: April 23, 2017, 12:27:35 pm »
Im working on the engine side for now until i figure out what to do with it. (or something else that I find worth doing.) I have plenty of projects that could use my attention
(utawarerumono portable, utawararerumono 2, utawarerumono 3, girlfriend of steel 2nd still needs a bugfix patch, the first girlfriend of steel i hacked some aeons ago and could just work out too, magna carta for psp is halfway there, the list is endless...), but ultimately they all have the same issue; they're missing a translator. I could google translate things and spit out a new translation patch once a week if i so wished, but what good would that serve ?. not much.
...

Oh, I just realised after learning from the rather difficult to read Wikipedia page on the whole Utawarerumono series that both sequels (On PS3, PS4 and PS Vita. No longer PC and PSP like the original.) will be released worldwide next month and in the fourth quarter respectively this year. Perhaps, most likely, only the PS4 ports of both sequels may be released in English like some competitors (ie. Persona 5).
I checked before then that both of those games do have rather nicer looking engines that I like more than the original iteration (No judgment on your choice of games nor translation. The visuals for the first game look alright and are cohesive if a bit dry.).
So the question is why would you want to be working on translation hacks for both of those sequels if they'll come in English?

I have checked that youtube link on your translation hack of the first game's PSP version and saw in the comments section that the battle gameplay had received huge improvements over the English-localized PC version. So that's all good and well.

Mugi

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2017, 12:59:25 pm »
Oh, I just realised after learning from the rather difficult to read Wikipedia page on the whole Utawarerumono series that both sequels (On PS3, PS4 and PS Vita. No longer PC and PSP like the original.) will be released worldwide next month and in the fourth quarter respectively this year. Perhaps, most likely, only the PS4 ports of both sequels may be released in English like some competitors (ie. Persona 5).
I checked before then that both of those games do have rather nicer looking engines that I like more than the original iteration (No judgment on your choice of games nor translation. The visuals for the first game look alright and are cohesive if a bit dry.).
So the question is why would you want to be working on translation hacks for both of those sequels if they'll come in English?

I have checked that youtube link on your translation hack of the first game's PSP version and saw in the comments section that the battle gameplay had received huge improvements over the English-localized PC version. So that's all good and well.

mostly because i can, more or less.
I hacked apart utawarerumono 2 as soon as it released and uta 3 is more or less uta 2 as far as engine goes anyway, didnt seem like a thing that would likely receive an official localization at the time, and since they now do, i've suspended the hacking of them. Im sure those will have enough censored things for me to uncensor once they actually do release in any case, if the original game is anything to go by.

for the first game, yes, the ps2 and the psp versions are vastly superior to the original pc release of the game as far as actual gameplay goes (it's a VN/SRPG hybrid) at the cost of losing all the +18 content of the game. My translation project for the psp version aims to get that upgraded content available in english and while im at it, revise the translation a little (The project started as a result of mirrormoon handing me the script from their PC version translation patch) but instead of implementing it into the psp port, we chose to retranslate for a more accurate approach. (and possibly bringing back the +18 content.) Unfortunately the translator responsible for working on the scripts went MIA, and the project has been on a standstill ever since.
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Tom

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #70 on: April 23, 2017, 07:04:10 pm »
The necklace items should fit, no problem.

Spoiler:
豪腕の首飾り   Strong Necklace
体力の首飾り   Stout Necklace
知恵の首飾り   Wise Necklace
精神の首飾り   Psyche Necklace
敏速の首飾り   Agile Necklace
技巧の首飾り   Finesse Necklace

Mugi

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2017, 01:57:50 am »
that's good news.

did you get past the crash on the spirit change NPC ?
as for now it looks like the only reason for the crash was indeed the filesize limit, but that' will be left to be seen once the files have been worked through. (the issue the line de-dublicator has that it currently has a very poor detection regarding dublicates of lines that are not xxxx.1) and since the decimal lines other than .1 do not have their own pointer in the text pointer tables, de-dublicating them simply doesnt work. easy way to solve that is simply to remove the de-dublicator, but seeing that the larger of these files is some 10kb larger than it should be, that might be a bad idea. We'll try and refine it a little more for the next revision that should finally have the gender variable too, it's being worked on.
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Tom

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2017, 07:26:49 am »
did you get past the crash on the spirit change NPC ?

I didn't know what you meant by "excluding" the file from pami. Are you saying that I should just not transfer the dat file over, and the line will remain in Japanese?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 07:33:57 am by Tom »

Mugi

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2017, 08:03:52 am »
for now, use the original data files to keep the filesize under the 64kb.

once the full file is translated it will hopefully shrink enough to fit  (most of the translated files ended up smaller than the originals.), if it doesnt, then we have 2 options.

1) try to reword the strings in it to make it smaller.
2) i'll reprogram half of the game to make the string addresses 4-byte long instead of 2-byte long and then rewrite all msgsec files to the new format.

edit: I did some testing with it, and the culprit is indeed msgsec056 being too large. I filled it with enough empty strings to make it's size below 64kb and now it loads properly.
Have you translated this file completely ? if so, is it still too large ?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 09:05:09 am by Mugi »
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Bonk

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #74 on: April 26, 2017, 12:52:07 am »
If you never told me that you made a private version for yourself, and changed the names to whatever you saw fit... Why would I care? I wouldn't even know that you did it.  On the other hand, telling me that my translation style made you cringe... Obviously, I'm going to care more about that. Maybe I shouldn't let my ego get the best of me, though.

From my perspective, yes, the fan base is small (even in Japan, it's not exactly a mainstream title)... If the English patched version is someone's first experience with the game, and they see the name "Karula," it won't seem familiar to them like it does to you. They haven't read the guidebooks and artbooks and all of that.  It will just look like Engrish, and their opinion of the game will not be as good as it might have been otherwise. They won't care that the spelling doesn't match a Japanese artbook. They won't care about what honorific was used or removed. They won't insist that Lulluantha refers to herself in the third person like she does in Japanese. If they did, they'd have to be pretty darn familiar with the Japanese script, and if so, then why would they be playing the English patch?

Anyway, I don't want to crush your dream. I'll resume work on it, if you want. And I'll even give you my blessing to make whatever edits you see fit to your own private copy. I feel kinda bad that I'm not the ideal translator for the project, but I'll man up and offer to help again, if you're willing to take it.

This this this. Proper localizations have to actually make sense in English and get the same intentions across to any native English speaker.

This extends to name changes, especially if the original makes no sense in actual English. A good example of comparing good name localizations IMO is Arc The Lad. Working Designs release of the games vs ADV's release of the anime. (Which has awful, cringe inducing name translations and name pronunciations.)

Tosh vs Toshu (Tofu?)
Gogen vs Gorgon (Turn me to stone?)
Kukuru vs Kukulu (Kukuwhata? This would be arguably ok, but it just doesn't read right in English.)

lexluthermiester

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #75 on: April 26, 2017, 03:46:43 am »
Come on folks, don't cancel this project. You've come so far. Go the distance even if you have to agree to disagree on some things. Just a thought..

GHANMI

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #76 on: April 26, 2017, 12:39:07 pm »
Come on folks, don't cancel this project. You've come so far. Go the distance even if you have to agree to disagree on some things. Just a thought..

As it should be obvious from the previous replies by Mugi and Tom, it seems this project was in fact un-cancelled.

Mugi

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #77 on: April 26, 2017, 01:15:33 pm »
The project is still going on, although a bit slow on the hacking side, as i've now been sick for over a week and starting to have some serious issues on focusing on what I do,
combined with the fact that the other half of the hacking side, binaryfail lives halfway across the world from me, leading into the fact that we are only capable of communicating at all if I stay awake at times past 4am or so, which I currently cannot do due to real life oblications.

some later updates on the hacking side is that we programmed a barebones test executable for seeing how the gender variable would be easy to handle within our current space limitations of the game's executable. (an update for elfhax executable expander is also on the works, as it turns out that the application still has it's fair share of issues to be solved.) That will hopefully progress more during the weekend when we are able to work on it on a proper manner with Binary.

The executable currently has 0x4D0 bytes of free space left which is partially reserved for remaining strings that are to be modified/updated within the executable, along with various little gimmics such as new stringbuffers that are to be allocated for currently non-working things like the job system (see 1st post for details.)

aside that, I patched out remaining alignment issues from the treasure chest opening minigame and fixed various graphical bugs from the main UI that were present on the vanilla game due to bad pixel coordinates on the relevant sprite sheets. Aside that I'm still currently working on trying to trace the code responsible for making the numerical strings shift by 8pixels per-digit which due to the new font is causing a 1-pixel offsynch per digit on numerical strings, and the code that is responsible for scaling down the font used to display player and enemy stats on the battle screens. (the goal is to remove the scaling and have the HP/MP displays use the same 9px tahoma font the game normally uses.)
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lexluthermiester

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #78 on: April 26, 2017, 05:20:50 pm »
Ah, ok cool. It's just the thread title still shows "(cancelled)". My bad bad, shutting up.

Mugi

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Re: Zill O'll infinite plus english translation (cancelled)
« Reply #79 on: April 26, 2017, 05:24:15 pm »
Ah, ok cool. It's just the thread title still shows "(cancelled)". My bad bad, shutting up.

fixed that for you.
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