Tengai Makyou Zero translation project

[KingMike]

I'm okay with the US date format. 
Either way, someone's not going to be happy. Not unless you spell out the month.

Although using the US date format and then 24-hour format is strange. (I'm looking at you, Pokemon Gen 5. Why use 24-hour format in the US and 12-hour in Japan?)

[Hiei-]

From DDS :

Worked on the Equipment screen, and moved some fields and cursors around. Still need to fix item names so they don't overwrite each other.


January 01, 2017, 11:04:52 PM - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
From DDS :





Item names should appear in dialogue windows correctly now.



Got item names to show for Inventory in combat, and moved the window for the bookmark names. Item description still needs 24 tiles though.

[Tom]

Noooooooooo.  Please do not use the horrible (US) date format. Everybody else will get confused by this.
When I read dates (on the internet/in games) I always hope to find one with a day >12 to make sure I get it right...

I'm American, born and raised, so this translation follows American English rules for spelling and grammar.
It's only natural that it will follow the American English pattern for date order.

I can understand your disappointment, though. I know how confusing an unfamiliar pattern can be.
(I sometimes get a bit thrown off when I see Date, Month, Year, or 1.000 instead of 1,000...)

At least you have a heads up, so you won't get TOO confused, even if it's not your preference.

If (as KingMike suggested) DDS can hack the game to show A.M. and P.M. distinctions instead of military time, that would be a change that I would welcome! However, if that turns out to be problematic, I think it's okay to show military time. Military time is certain unconventional in America, but it's not entirely foreign.

Finally back from my vacation, by the way.

Happy new year, everyone.

[cccmar]

I'm American, born and raised, so this translation follows American English rules for spelling and grammar.
It's only natural that it will follow the American English pattern for date order.

I can understand your disappointment, though. I know how confusing an unfamiliar pattern can be.
(I sometimes get a bit thrown off when I see Date, Month, Year, or 1.000 instead of 1,000...)

At least you have a heads up, so you won't get TOO confused, even if it's not your preference.

If (as KingMike suggested) DDS can hack the game to show A.M. and P.M. distinctions instead of military time, that would be a change that I would welcome! However, if that turns out to be problematic, I think it's okay to show military time. Military time is certain unconventional in America, but it's not entirely foreign.

Finally back from my vacation, by the way.

Happy new year, everyone.

Fahrenheit to Celsius temperature conversion seems somewhat similar. The US is the only country where Fahrenheit's scale is in official use and, even though we Europeans generally know how the Fahrenheit scale works, it just seems out of place somehow. It makes more sense to me that when it's cold you say that it's -10 C for instance than 14-15 F, but perhaps that's just me.

"Officially", like on the weather forecast etc., the temperature is given in Celsius, although the forecaster does give equivalents in Fahrenheit sometimes. We swapped systems a while ago, so there are now quite a lot of people used to both systems, but also quite a few people who refuse to use the "new method." Still, I grew up with the Celsius, so it seems more natural to me. Translators always have it rough, it never rains but it pours.

[Tom]

Fahrenheit to Celsius temperature conversion seems somewhat similar. The US is the only country where Fahrenheit's scale is in official use and, even though we Europeans generally know how the Fahrenheit scale works, it just seems out of place somehow. It makes more sense to me that when it's cold to say that it's -10 C for instance than 14-15 F, but perhaps that's just me.

"Officially", like on the weather forecast etc., the temperature is given in Celsius, although the forecaster does give equivalents in Fahrenheit sometimes. We swapped systems a while ago, so there are now quite a lot of people used to both systems, but also quite a few people who refuse to use the "new method." Still, I grew up with the Celsius, so it seems more natural to me. Translators always have it rough, it never rains but it pours.

You're right, it's all about what you grew up with.

When it comes to punctuation and ordering, it's not a very substantial thing when it all comes down to it... But it's a pet peeve of mine when the units are entirely changed in a way that contradicts the setting. For instance, there's a Japanese comic I read. It was called "Green Blood." It was a cowboy sort of story. The main character was asked how far he would have to travel, and he said something to the effect of "twenty kilometers."

I thought THAT was kind of odd, as no cowboy back in those days would have given the distance in kilometers. I understand that they wanted the Japanese audience to understand the distance, but I think saying "miles" would have been a more immersive experience, even if the actual distance wouldn't be as clear that way. Regardless, it is what it is. I might have even done the same thing in some of my earlier translations, so maybe I shouldn't criticize this sort of style too harshly.

The clock, the grammar, the punctuation (and so-on) aren't really referenced directly in the main dialogue of Tengai Makyou Zero, so they shouldn't be too jarring.

[bailli]

I'm American, born and raised, so this translation follows American English rules for spelling and grammar.
It's only natural that it will follow the American English pattern for date order.

I can understand your disappointment, though. I know how confusing an unfamiliar pattern can be.
(I sometimes get a bit thrown off when I see Date, Month, Year, or 1.000 instead of 1,000...)

At least you have a heads up, so you won't get TOO confused, even if it's not your preference.

If (as KingMike suggested) DDS can hack the game to show A.M. and P.M. distinctions instead of military time, that would be a change that I would welcome! However, if that turns out to be problematic, I think it's okay to show military time. Military time is certain unconventional in America, but it's not entirely foreign.

Finally back from my vacation, by the way.

Happy new year, everyone.

I totally understand that you chose the US format. I have no problems playing a game using that format, I was simply exaggerating a bit

Anyway, really nice work from everyone involved. Keep it up

[Tom]

I totally understand that you chose the US format. I have no problems playing a game using that format, I was simply exaggerating a bit

Anyway, really nice work from everyone involved. Keep it up

Yeah, I'm really impressed at everyone's rapid progress. At this point, I'm kind of fighting to keep up the pace myself with my revisions! And I regret that I haven't touched the manual translation in ages. Considering that a lot of terminology has changed since I started (like scroll names), that was probably a good idea, though. Now that everything's pretty much finalized, it's a good time to start working on the manual. Still, I want to play through it to make sure that everything's up to snuff for the hackers. It's getting hard to prioritize things, and I really want to start up Zill O'll translation this month as well.

But to bring the discussion back to date order... While going through some of the text about halfway through the game yesterday, I noticed a spot that has iffy formatting when a date is referenced in a conversation. (I sort of can't fix myself, I think it will require some hacking to look decent). There's one character that tells you to return in 48 hours, but she does it by referencing that future date and time through variables.

My style is to spell out numbers whenever feasible in spoken dialogue... So, if I translate a game, the script will generally have something like: "Bring me a thousand pieces of gold." instead of "Bring me 1000 G." (It's just the way I prefer it.)  I'm not insisting that things always have to be spelled out. I'll use numbers in the dialogue when necessary.

However, there's a WIP line that currently reads "Bring me a thousand ryo on day 3 of 2 month, at 3:30 A.M." (Yeah, it's really ugly at the moment, but that'll be changed by the time it's out. It's really just placeholder text.)

The variables that stand for each number are common number variables (A.M. and P.M. are also variables, which makes me think that it might be possible to avoid the use of military time in the final patch. No guarantees, though. I know screen space is already extremely tight.) I'm hoping that DDStranslation will be able to find a way to make these lines look cleaner.

I suppose one way to make it cleaner is to add the year variable. (The character originally gives only the day and month.) If the line said: "Bring me a thousand yen on 3-10-2017, at 3:30 P.M." That would look a lot better than "Bring me a thousand yen on 3-10, at 3:30 P.M."

Currently, due to a flub with an overwritten save state, I'm starting over in the second area of the game... (I was halfway through the third area.) Got a lot of catching up to do! It sucks because I JUST got the crane's sword, and now I'm back to garden shears! Argh!

[patuli]

It is posible to use month abbreviations to avoid confusion?
Instead of:
"Bring me a thousand yen on 3-10-2017, at 3:30 P.M."
Something like this:
"Bring me a thousand yen on Oct./3/2017, at 3:30 P.M."
Anyway It seems you guys, have the game almost complete, thanks for everything!

[Tom]

It is posible to use month abbreviations to avoid confusion?
Instead of:
"Bring me a thousand yen on 3-10-2017, at 3:30 P.M."
Something like this:
"Bring me a thousand yen on Oct./3/2017, at 3:30 P.M."
Anyway It seems you guys, have the game almost complete, thanks for everything!

Naturally, that would be ideal, but I believe the variable tags it's using are common "number" tags that are used with other things, not just months. Not saying it isn't possible. Just saying it's not that simple.

It's all up to DDStranslation. All I did was put in the placeholder text and cross my fingers that a good solution will pop up.

Make no mistake, there's still a lot that needs to be done. The almanac is still a bit weird about some entries, and the battle graphics are going to take some collaboration between FlashPV, DougRPG, and DDStranslation (and me) to make a system that works in English.

It might not be THAT hard to work around the issues in the battle system. (They're not THAT bad.) But they will require us all to work together, and all be on the same page about what needs to be done.

For the moment, the four of us have largely been concentrating on our own areas... DDStranslation has been focused on the menus, DougRPG on locating, extracting, and inserting... And FlashPV has been focused on graphics editing.

I think the four of us will need to get together in IRC or something one of these days, but as we're all in different areas of the world, that's easier said than done!

---------------

P.S. I checked DDStranslation's twitter account just now.

https://twitter.com/DDSTrans/status/816543532781633536

Looks like he got rid of military time in the main menu. Well done.

[Hiei-]

From DDS :

Converting numerical months to the name of the month in dialogue, as requested by Tom. Also fixed time display

[mikeprado30]

Great advancement this one!

[Tater Bear]

The publishing centers will have a paper and feather pen...

Any chance of using a brush and paper? (Too keep with the oriental feel)

[Tom]

Any chance of using a brush and paper? (Too keep with the oriental feel)

I like this suggestion. Staying true to the setting is important.

I'll ask FlashPV and DougRPG about it. It's more work for them, but we're still pretty early in, so it shouldn't be too much trouble.

Hope you enjoy seeing a brush on the sign when you play the game!

[Lentfilms]

Really exciting to see each barrier being overcome so quickly with this project. It is almost becoming a comedy routine with Tom mentioning how something will be really difficult to hack and DDS solving it a few hours later. Loving it 

Keep up the awesome work guys and a late Happy New Year to you all as well!

[Tom]

To be honest, I know next to nothing about how hard something is to hack. I just know that it's complex enough that I can't solve it through creative wording or formatting.

The current display method, as I hear it, is not flawless. It looks fine when the time is 9:28... But because of the way the minute variable is listed in the Japanese script for that line, minutes from 00 to 09 would appear without the zero at the front...

In other words...

January 12
7:8 P.M. (instead of 7:08 P.M.).

DDStranslation is going to try to hack in an extra zero before single digits. There's more work to be done before it's just right! (At the rate he's going, though, he'll make quick work of that, too.)

On my end, I'm going through and testing almanac entries to make sure they don't break the window or crash... I've tested and revised nearly a hundred of them today to make sure they all fit JUST right!

[Tater Bear]

Hope you enjoy seeing a brush on the sign when you play the game!

That would be great!!!  . Earlier you mentioned swords were also going to be used. Were they going to be in the straight blade style of the "Tsurugi/Ken" or "chokutō" used before the 10th century in Japan or are they based on the curved blades used after the 10th century (Such as the Katana)?

[Tom]

They would be tsurugi on the sign. They look the kind of sword Higan carries on his back (albeit shorter). There is also an icon for katana, but it doesn't appear on the shop signs. It appears in the smaller item font, used for katana that had names that were too long to spell out. The size of that tiny font icon is so small that it's not possible to convey that slight sense of curvature for the katana icon, but it gets the point across (also, most items get their names spelled out in the item description, with a few exceptions).

[dejan07]

Since in-game requests are now in how about hacking in alarm clock to wake me up in the morning? The sound should be the bells from Chrono Trigger!

I will not stop playing this game so why not incorporate this game into my daily routine?

[Tater Bear]

They would be tsurugi on the sign. They look the kind of sword Higan carries on his back (albeit shorter). There is also an icon for katana, but it doesn't appear on the shop signs. It appears in the smaller item font, used for katana that had names that were too long to spell out. The size of that tiny font icon is so small that it's not possible to convey that slight sense of curvature for the katana icon, but it gets the point across (also, most items get their names spelled out in the item description, with a few exceptions).

Thanks for the reply! I look forward to the completion of this translation!!! 

[Tom]

Since in-game requests are now in how about hacking in alarm clock to wake me up in the morning? The sound should be the bells from Chrono Trigger!

I will not stop playing this game so why not incorporate this game into my daily routine?

Ha ha! 

You know, there was a special cart released for Tengai Makyou Zero that had a built-in clock... I doubt it had an alarm in it, but that would have been useful.

There's probably some modder out there that could actually include it!

Thanks for the reply! I look forward to the completion of this translation!!! 

Thank you, too! I'm working hard to make it happen (and DDStranslation is, too!) He doesn't seem to post here, but he's been posting a lot on his twitter account.

Right now, I'm making sure the item/spell descriptions don't break the windows or leave fragments behind, using a very useful character/tile counting tool that DDStranslation made!