Tengai Makyou Zero translation project

[Pennywise]

You guys should all use BSNES+. It's like the qt core of BSNES before the emulator shot itself in the foot and it has all the current SNES emulation advancements and then some.

[DougRPG]

You guys should all use BSNES+. It's like the qt core of BSNES before the emulator shot itself in the foot and it has all the current SNES emulation advancements and then some.

I tried Bsnes+ but I like the v086 debugger more. I can change directly the code and recompile very easily (linux and windows). You can do whatever you want changing directly the debugger's code.
Probably you can also do this with Bsnes+, but I've already gotten used to v086 and the code already have lots of changes.
I don't know what DDS uses, but I think it's Bsnes+.

[chicco30]

DougRPG: so there is no chance to play this translated rom on my Xbox360 or Ps3? (SNES9x GX)

[DougRPG]

DougRPG: so there is no chance to play this translated rom on my Xbox360 or Ps3? (SNES9x GX)

Someone needs to release a new emulator version for Xbox/Ps3 compatible with the game.
Like I said the change is minimal, but the problem is to find someone to recompile these especific emulator versions for you.
I don't know if these emulator projects are still active today.

[chicco30]

Someone needs to release a new emulator version for Xbox/Ps3 compatible with the game.
Like I said the change is minimal, but the problem is to find someone to recompile these especific emulator versions for you.
I don't know if these emulator projects are still active today.

Oh, i see. Retroarch emulator(for Ps3) is active yet and its working with core based on SNES9X. So i just needs to find someone who could modify the SNES9X source (https://github.com/snes9xgit/snes9x ) and after compile a new Retroarch version with the updated SNES9X
@DougRPG: are you sure that the translated, modified rom wont run on SNES9X?

[Tom]

Going through the current rom, I've established exactly how much graphics work remains before testing can begin.

1. Geisha lodge mini-game icon
2. Pub posters at the Big Tiger Town
3. Flower Circle Town jail lanterns
4. Flags in the Royal Dragon Town
5. Stone floor dragon symbol
6. Liquor bottles throughout the lands
7. Redo glitched graphics in the Fire Bear Shrine Town

[LynxxLancer]

I'm almost at the end of the game. I'm excited to play this soon. Can I used the save from the original rom to this translated rom? I'd like to play new game+ in English. 

[Tom]

I'm almost at the end of the game. I'm excited to play this soon. Can I used the save from the original rom to this translated rom? I'd like to play new game+ in English. 

Japanese save files carry over, yeah. You'll be able to use them for "new game +" (called "restart +") with the English version.

It might not happen as soon as you think, though. The project has hit another wall. There are a handful of minor graphics to do, as well as one really complicated graphic that I thought was done... But it turns out that it was only a mock-up. That last complicated graphic will require the actual town layout programming to be hacked in order to move around he floor tiles and spell out the divine symbol of the dragon instead of just the kanji for dragon in the Royal Dragon Town. DougRPG has just been extracting and inserting graphics, not doing layout hacks... And DDStranslation said he doesn't know how to edit it either. From what I understand, neither of them know what to do about it, and DougRPG has gone quiet again ever since he sent enough of the graphics to finish the manual.

The project is effectively dead in the water right now. Not canceled, of course, but I'm beginning to question if it will even be released this year, let alone soon.The beta testers are going over the manual, but that's about it in terms of progress. Nothing that will make the game come out sooner. I thought about at least beta testing the script with incomplete graphics, but even the beta testers are too busy with other stuff at the moment. In fact, only a couple of them are actually even submitting reports. It's just not a priority for most people, unfortunately. But that has become less and less surprising to me as time has gone on.

I think what really sets this project back the most is the apathy most people have for the game. And now it's almost infected me. Just cross your fingers that this project doesn't become vaporware.

[Ishkabibble]

I think what really sets this project back the most is the apathy most people have for the game. And now it's almost infected me. Just cross your fingers that this project doesn't become vaporware.

Gotta get the game out then and prove them wrong.  The entire franchise is obscure outside of Japan due to not having any ports.  Somebody needs to get that first translation out there.

Also, I don't mind if it takes a while and also don't think that this project will be vaporware.  Well, technically it already is due to the long wait on byuu's to-do list before this recent activity dusted it off and got it going again.  But I do believe a finished English hack will happen and trust that DougRPG won't be gone for long.

[Jeimuzu]

That last complicated graphic will require the actual town layout programming to be hacked in order to move around he floor tiles and spell out the divine symbol of the dragon instead of just the kanji for dragon in the Royal Dragon Town. DougRPG has just been extracting and inserting graphics, not doing layout hacks... And DDStranslation said he doesn't know how to edit it either. From what I understand, neither of them know what to do about it, and DougRPG has gone quiet again ever since he sent enough of the graphics to finish the manual

I'm wondering if this is more trouble than it's worth.  Is it just for aesthetic purposes, or does it somehow help the player progress?  I have rudimentary hex editing skills, but moving just one tile would change hundreds of bytes when I was working on my hack.  It's hard for me to imagine how this can be done in a practical manor without an editor.  The choice is yours of course, but I'm not sure I would withhold a release if the divine dragon symbol isn't finished by the time everything else is.

[xZabuzax]

It might not happen as soon as you think, though. The project has hit another wall. There are a handful of minor graphics to do, as well as one really complicated graphic that I thought was done... But it turns out that it was only a mock-up. That last complicated graphic will require the actual town layout programming to be hacked in order to move around he floor tiles and spell out the divine symbol of the dragon instead of just the kanji for dragon in the Royal Dragon Town. DougRPG has just been extracting and inserting graphics, not doing layout hacks... And DDStranslation said he doesn't know how to edit it either. From what I understand, neither of them know what to do about it, and DougRPG has gone quiet again ever since he sent enough of the graphics to finish the manual.

As Jeimuzu said, is that graphic layout really necessary to enjoy the translation? I mean, will it affect the experience in finally playing this game in english?

Could the project be finished without it and add that missing graphic later this year (or next year) or something? A simple tutorial of how to bypass that missing graphic layout will do I suppose once we get there, I just don't know if all the trouble is worth it, this project is free afterall, is not like you're getting paid to release a professional product or anything.

This game had the worst luck in the english translation. We appreciate all the effort you guys are putting in releasing a professional finished product but is it worth the trouble to add that missing graphic?

[Tom]

Gotta get the game out then and prove them wrong.

I can't put the game out in an incomplete state. Even if I did, it wouldn't prove anybody "wrong." I don't believe anybody is wrong, in this instance. If somebody says that it's not worth their time, then it's not worth their time. They're not wrong. That's their decision to make. And thinking about it, if I did just put the game out, that would prove me to be part of the apathy that I find to be so disappointing. I would effectively be saying, "Who cares? I'll just release it. No big deal."

It's sad that I can't get the project moving... That it's just floundering because, hey, who cares if it takes a long time? I care... I hope each day that progress is made, but even that hope is fading. As I'm moving on to other things, TM Zero is fading from my mind too, and with it, maybe the hope of a release as well.

Jeimuzu and xZabuzax, the symbol on the floor is not just for aesthetic purposes. I believe there's a character who also mentions it in the dialogue, and I've written the dialogue as if that character is referring to the divine symbol, not the Chinese letter. Most of the remaining graphics are aesthetic changes that have nothing to do with the story, but the dragon's divine symbol is rather substantial... And it's also the hardest thing to hack. The small, superficial graphics could be done in one, devoted weekend, I'm sure... But that graphic... That's going to be messy.

I would absolutely not release a "missing graphics" version just to rush out a release. Whatever version gets released first is going to be the one that everybody plays. A post-release patch would be ignored by most people.

It's funny that you said "It's not like this is a professional release anyway..." Because I think professional developers would rush out the release because of deadlines (or especially in today's market, just try to post-release patch it). Because this is a free fan project, we have the luxury of making sure that everything is done right without having to rush it out and fix it later.

[charlequin]

If you don't think enough people care about the game, nothing's going to build appreciation for it (both the quality of the underlying game and all the effort put into translating it) like putting it in people's hands. Updated patches are much more common than they used to be and this wouldn't be the first game to fix some lingering issues in a post-release version. If you're against making  a broad release with missing content of any kind, though, you're still more likely to find someone who can solve this last issue by taking the game to an early private beta than just going quiet on it. These last-minute roadblocks are definitely always frustrating, but it's still gonna be worth to push through it I'd think.

If somebody says that it's not worth their time, then it's not worth their time.

I'm pretty sure that was the poster saying maybe it wasn't worth holding up the release for this one graphic because the game is too good to go unfinished over one small piece, not that the game isn't worth people's time to play? 

[VicVergil]

-snip-

[Tom]

GHANMI: Well, don't worry. The symbol's hacked in now. It's on the ground and running in the game.

DDStranslation saw the post about the mock-up and just went ahead and hacked it in. He said that the only reason he didn't hack it from the start is that he was concerned that it might conflict with DougRPG's hacks. It shouldn't be an issue.

So really, this is now only a matter of DougRPG working on extracting the graphics and sending them to FlashPV. In theory, it could be done over a weekend, but at the rate we're going, it's more likely to take at least a month or two. That said, I'm now confident that the game can be released in a reasonable amount of time, but again, it doesn't depend on me. DougRPG's been rather quiet lately, but maybe the fact that the dragon symbol is done will be good motivation to do at least some of the remaining extraction work.

If you don't think enough people care about the game, nothing's going to build appreciation for it (both the quality of the underlying game and all the effort put into translating it) like putting it in people's hands.

I think there's been a miscommunication here. I'm not talking about a lack of audience appreciation. That has no bearing on the project whatsoever. My point was that DougRPG, for whatever reason, has set it aside... And releasing what he's done will not motivate him to work on it. The suggestion to just release what's been done to "prove them wrong" (whoever "them" refers to) is not really relevant to the issue at hand. The issue at hand is that the graphics extraction / reinsertion isn't progressing... And no matter what I do, I can't help the project move forward.

However, after seeing this thread, DDStranslation did make another substantial jump forward in the hacking. So maybe in a way I did help, as my post here caused a bit more work to be done.

Now the waiting game begins again.

[xZabuzax]

Oh nice, so the missing graphic issue is being worked on already, glad to know that hurdle won't be an issue anymore.

[Tom]

Update: I sent a beta to the testers telling them to ignore the graphics and just focus on finding text errors for the moment.

Then, right after that, I got an e-mail from DougRPG saying that he's going to have four days off! He's going to work on the rest of the issues during his break. Hopefully FlashPV is also available then. Let's hope that everything can be hammered out in that four day span of time.

Cross your fingers.

[Ishkabibble]

I can't put the game out in an incomplete state. Even if I did, it wouldn't prove anybody "wrong." I don't believe anybody is wrong, in this instance. If somebody says that it's not worth their time, then it's not worth their time. They're not wrong. That's their decision to make. And thinking about it, if I did just put the game out, that would prove me to be part of the apathy that I find to be so disappointing. I would effectively be saying, "Who cares? I'll just release it. No big deal."

I was not suggesting releasing it incomplete.  Rather sticking with it, regardless of how long it will take.  Well, at least until it is 100% hopeless, but we aren't there yet and hopefully never will be.

I agree, this should not be released incomplete.

[charlequin]

I think there's been a miscommunication here. I'm not talking about a lack of audience appreciation.

Yeah, I may have misunderstood your concern there a bit. Regardless, glad stuff seems to be worked out, it's very exciting to see this title close to release and y'all have done great work in getting it there. 

[Tom]

DougRPG's time off is from the 28th to the 1st. He said that he's hoping to do all of the pending tasks during this break, but I haven't received anything yet. I am hoping for even one graphic to be extracted, like the geisha lodge mini game graphic, which is probably the most substantial graphic that remains.