Tengai Makyou Zero translation project

[Hiei-]

Why not just ask DDS to extract/reinsert the remaining graphics?

He seems a pretty good romhacker with everything he has already done so I guess he should be capable to do it.

[Tom]

I asked DougRPG if he wanted DDStranslation to help extract/insert a while back, but he ignored my message and just said "I'll send something later." (Every once in a while, I get an e-mail from him saying that he's working on it and he'll send some progress later... Then there's a long stretch without any further word from him, until I get another e-mail that he's working on it and he'll send some progress later.)

Earlier, DDStranslation said that he wasn't good with working on graphics, and appreciated the fact that he could focus on the menu hacks without having to worry about the graphics hacking. It would be nice if, at least, DougRPG could explain the process to DDStranslation so the project wouldn't sit for another month untouched. If DDStranslation wants to hack the graphics to help the project, he can let me know... But it's a lot of work to do all of it by himself. There are TONS of files that I'd have to sort out of my e-mail inbox to send him too... Tons of revisions to sort through, too. It'd be extremely confusing.

If anything, maybe that's what's taking DougRPG so long. He said he wanted to redo the old work... I don't know how he's organized the files, but there are TONS of image files sent between him and FlashPV. Maybe it's hard keeping track of what's what.

The only recent progress with the project as a whole would have to be with the English packaging... The box is nearly complete. There's just one segment of the front cover that needs to be reworked. (It's a very tricky edit to do.)

[praet]

I have to applaud you, besides the outstanding progress you've made with this translation to also work on the box and manual's translation. It'll be appreciated for certain - doesn't happen everyday with SNES translation projects... then again this isn't like your everyday translation project!

When you think about the amount of views this topic's gotten in just the past 4 months, it does speak for itself, a lot of people including this humble viewer thank you for keeping us well updated.

[travel27]

I have to applaud you, besides the outstanding progress you've made with this translation to also work on the box and manual's translation. It'll be appreciated for certain - doesn't happen everyday with SNES translation projects... then again this isn't like your everyday translation project!

When you think about the amount of views this topic's gotten in just the past 4 months, it does speak for itself, a lot of people including this humble viewer thank you for keeping us well updated.

Ya, Tom strikes me as a humble person.  But when you consider the views, it IS crazy.  This is a top 100 thread according to views (#70 exactly, as of now) and Top 20 in regards to responses (#12 and closing in one top 10) in the personal projects forums and many of the threads ahead of this one have been around a lot longer.  People are indeed watching as I said previously!

[Tom]

More than notoriety or views, I just want the game out so people can play it! And you know, it's pretty easy to be humble when the project isn't even out. After all, how can I really be proud of something that nobody's played? Anything could happen that could stall the project indefinitely...

It's easy to forget that this project was "almost ready" five years ago, and it's still "almost ready" now. I sent another e-mail out today asking about progress, but there's not much else I can do with the project. How proud should I be after another month passes, another year passes? There's nothing to take pride in here.

I've been jumping between a few other projects in the meantime. Even my own interest in this project will eventually fade, sooner or later. I just wish that there was more I could do now... Even if people are watching this thread, they might as well be watching paint dry; I'm afraid that there's been "zero" progress these days.

[FlashPV]

I hope nothing bad happened to Doug.
He didn't tweet anything since last month...

[Tom]

FlashPV, every week or two, I get a message from DougRPG saying that he's working on it, and that he'll send something in a bit... Then silence for another week, and then another e-mail saying the same thing as before... Tweets aside, he last e-mailed me on March 30th, so I'm pretty sure he's okay... It's just that after he beat the game, his quick progress slowed to a crawl. I'm guessing he lost interest in the game once he'd beaten it, since working on it wasn't as fresh and exciting as it was before. It's easy to get busy with other things when something loses your interest like that.

Of course, I don't know what's going on with him. Any number of very serious things could be happening with him. I can speculate all I want, but for whatever reason, he's dealing with stuff that's more important than the game right now, and he's got every right to do that (as frustrating as it might be to the rest of us). He's gotta deal with work and life, and so on. It's just sad that there are only three small graphics left to extract... You're waiting for them. The manual editor's waiting. Everybody's just waiting around with our hands tied.

[VicVergil]

Why not work with the pre-extracted graphical packs used in the old versions of Snes9X in the meantime? These would have the graphics you're waiting for. You could edit them (they're in uncompressed SNES 2bpp/4bpp format), at least the tile data, and wait for DougRPG to reinsert them.

Just google a certain spanish alpha translation patch for TMZ. He included the graphical pack for the standard version (but didn't actually modify it). You can test it with Snes9X 1.43 and tell it the folder with the uncompressed files, to see how it appears in game were it re-inserted. And by the way, this pack overrides the actual SPC7110 data in your translated ROM, so everything would be back to how it appeared in Japanese (with potential garbage-looking text in menus but nothing big).

You could, in theory, distribute a batch patching tool for this pack and and the ROM in a worst case scenario (if you still have all those uncompressed files DougRPG sent you).

[Tom]

I don't know enough about graphics hacking to fully comment on your suggestion, Ghanmi.

All I know is that the graphics are 99.9 percent extracted and edited right now.

Asking FlashPV to totally redo the editing based on graphics packs would be quite a request. I doubt he would very happy about that, as he's got his own projects to do.

[mikeprado30]

It's weird...

Doug was online recently in this board.

I hope his delay is because what you said early, Tom, that he's going to redo his graphic work for the game.

[VicVergil]

Before 2010, the SPC7110 used for unpacking the special compression (used mostly for graphics tile data and other things, possibly tile map data) wasn't emulated yet in any emulator. This caused these graphics to appear completely dark. These graphics are about everything in the game except for the message fonts and graphics, and the initial test screens.

These compressed graphics were ripped directly from the console as they were loaded and uncompressed by the real hardware around 2003 by the DeJap team, and old emulators like Snes9X would use these uncompressed graphics from a folder with dozens of files (what they call a "graphical pack"), instead of trying to load and uncompress them from the actual ROM.

Fast-forward to 2010, an emulator developer finally figured out how the decompression works, and wrote a decompressor tool (for the emulators when they would open the TM0 ROM) and a compressor algorithm he shared with LostTemplar so that a translation project might be started. All current versions of SNES emulators besides ZSNES (but that's because it's almost dead) just open the TM0 ROM without the need for that "graphical pack" because they can uncompress that stuff on their own.

My point is:
1) if you're waiting for DougRPG to send you an uncompressed graphic for FlashPV to modify, it's certainly in that pack, and it's almost certainly in the same format as all uncompressed graphics you have been sharing back and forth.
Just as a proof-of-concept of how easy it is:

Spoiler

[close]

2) if this is the final roadblock before this project is finished, and -god forbid- it caused it to go into development hell, you could get all of those uncompressed files you have been sending to DougRPG after working on them, and rename them to the appropriate file name in the pack, with no further modification involved. So it's not the end of the world! The Chinese TM0 translation released sometimes around 2012 actually did this. Of course, it's far too early to decide on that course of action, but it's a possibility that exists nevertheless.

[Bonesy]

And the point I'd like to make is it's Tom's project so let him do what he wants without trying to cajole him into producing a product he's unhappy with.

[Tom]

All I know is, I don't know anything about hacking, DDStranslation said he'd prefer not to do the graphics hacking, redoing everything in graphics pack form would be a ton of work for FlashPV (and he's already complained about having to revise work after I asked him to redo certain graphics for standardization purposes)... I can't in good faith ask him to redo everything yet again.

If this project goes to development hell, it would be depressing, but it wouldn't be the first time a translation I completed went nowhere.

[VicVergil]

And the point I'd like to make is it's Tom's project so let him do what he wants without trying to cajole him into producing a product he's unhappy with.

Tom was dedicated enough to manage a project of this scope and magnitude, I doubt a few posts by some random forum goer would be enough to sway him from his better judgement or his years-old vision for the project.

I also stressed out earlier how this is not a recommendation for how the project should be, but that it's a possibility that exists in a worst-case scenario. After all, its existence at all is better than nothing, and for that to be known could be worthwhile if only just for testing purposes, considering it's stalled by there not being any way to test those graphics in the game (but this would be a way -admittedly, a not so ideal way- to do that). That said I get your cue, it's causing a thread derail and I'd very much wish not to have this overshadow the actual project discussion.

[Tom]

Given the time and effort that DougRPG has put into the project, he deserves the chance to finish it. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. A month of zero progress may be frustrating, but I have to keep in mind that this project has been put on the back burner for five years already. It's just not that important to most ("sane") people.

I feel bad for having to string along the folks who've volunteered for beta testing. I feel like by the time the patch is delivered to them, half of the people on the list will not even be checking their inboxes.

As for derailing the project the discussion, Ghanmi, don't worry about it. Your comments are welcome. Rather than derailing the discussion, you are MAKING it... Because aside from your comments, there is simply nothing to discuss regarding this project... That is, until DougRPG does something.

Hope for an Easter miracle, folks... We're going to need it.

[Tom]

DougRPG made progress this time. For real!

Hopefully the remaining graphics can be extracted and inserted this weekend.

We'll see!

[khalismur]

Good news!!
I guess everyone can get a bit burnt out at times... I was not worried he'd vanish, just that he was not good in health.

I mean, the pace of the work previously was insane. I wouldn't mind a more relaxed progress tempo

Good luck finishing this legendary project, guys!!

[mikeprado30]

Good news!!
I guess everyone can get a bit burnt out at times... I was not worried he'd vanish, just that he was not good in health.

That was my thought also, and surely that's what surely happened.

But thankfully he's well and up again! 

CAN'T WAIT!!!

[Tom]

DougRPG said that he should have the remaining graphics extracted by Friday (in Brazil). FlashPV will probably be able to do the edits that same day, and on the weekend, DDStranslation can put everything together for the beta patch. Once that's done, I will take the last remaining manual pictures and send them to Cargodin for insertion into the English manual. I will do a quick test to make sure that things are in order, and then (providing there are no problems) beta testing will finally begin next week...

[WildWolf21]

DougRPG said that he should have the remaining graphics extracted by Friday (in Brazil). FlashPV will probably be able to do the edits that same day, and on the weekend, DDStranslation can put everything together for the beta patch. Once that's done, I will take the last remaining manual pictures and send them to Cargodin for insertion into the English manual. I will do a quick test to make sure that things are in order, and then (providing there are no problems) beta testing will finally begin next week...

Look's like your Easter miracle finally came true. Can't wait to play the final product!!!

Also, can someone confirm if this game works 100% on SNES9X GX???