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Author Topic: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project  (Read 197591 times)

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1160 on: May 06, 2018, 05:58:22 am »
It's not as good as the originals, but there's still a lot of content. You got a lot of bang for your buck. The polygonal models are Barbie-dollish and not as charming as the PC Engine entries. The battles are pretty slick and fast-paced, but the game still feels like something of a slog.

(But then again, so do the original PC Engine games.)

It was originally planned to be on the PC Engine. There are even screenshots of it. (I heard they eventually turned THAT story into a novel, and when they decided to finally make the game years later on the PS2, they decided to change things up.)

Since I can emulate PS2 games now, I'm definitely willing to work on a translation of Namida when the time comes.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 11:29:37 pm by Tom »

Lentfilms

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1161 on: May 06, 2018, 07:25:26 am »
Thanks for sharing Tom.
And yeah, it seems like there was a version of Tengai Makyou III on the PC-Engine, then it moved to the PC-FX and finally was reimagined like you said for the PS2. But then Shoji Masuda took the original story and made it into a novel in 2007, although I think all the references to Tengai Makyou were removed and it added a new female protagonist. In fact the protagonist from those novels makes a cameo in Oreshika, a Vita game created by Masuda, as one of the many gods in the game.

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1162 on: May 06, 2018, 08:16:13 am »
I found some reviews of the novel. They say it's really thick, and was also split into two parts. The reviews are mixed, so I wonder if it's worth translating.

One review said it mentions the Fire Clan in the book, so not ALL of it was changed, apparently.

And thanks for telling me about the connection to "Oreshika." Is the cameo only in the Vita sequel, or is she also in the first PS1 game, or in the PSP remake?

Lentfilms

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1163 on: May 06, 2018, 09:54:27 am »
I am pretty sure she is not in the oringianl PS1 game but I did a quick Google search and it looks like she is indeed in the PSP remake.

KingMike

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1164 on: May 06, 2018, 02:03:42 pm »
Tengai Makyo III was also planned for GameCube, perhaps explaining why Manjimaru was chosen as one of the games in Hudson's collection of older game remakes for the system.
"My watch says 30 chickens" Google, 2018

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1165 on: May 07, 2018, 12:24:49 am »
It's crazy that ports/remakes of Manjimaru are playable on PS2, GameCube, DS, PSP, PS3, and Vita.

(Too bad they're all censored.)

They even have a pachinko machine version of it!

RetroGaijin

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1166 on: May 24, 2018, 05:13:46 pm »
I just wanted to offer a big thank you and congratulations to everyone involved in bringing this project to fruition. It really is an astonishingly complete translation, of a great game, and having read the thread front to back I feel I can only appreciate by the merest degrees how much blood, sweat and tears you all must have shed to bring it to  our side of the globe. Especially Tom - I remember the threads on byuu's old forum, so I know this has been a hell of a road for him to hoe.

I have cherished memories of playing this game, decades ago, with a friend on his Super Famicom. It was the first RPG I'd ever seen, and I couldn't understand why the enemies were waiting for us to take our turn. But the charming graphics and (especially) the sight of
Spoiler:
giant robots duking it out
really grabbed my imagination. Years later he returned to Japan and I've long since lost contact with him. Being able to finally play TMZ in English was a special experience for me, to say the least.

There was discusion earlier in the thread about how it's hard to put a finger on exactly what makes this game special. If you'll spare me the indulgence, I'd like to offer a few thoughts on some of the things that stuck out as special for me. This will probably be a lengthy and spoiler-riddled ramble, so if that's not your cup of tea, this is probably the point to jump off (assuming you even made it this far!)

SPOILERS FROM HERE TO THE END OF THE POST!

Things in TMZ I found special:
 
   The music, the art, the whole presentation
      Need I say more? The game is looks and sounds amazing. There's a bunch of great tracks and the sprite work is beautiful. I love the shrine theme and the early boss theme especially.

   Hisui
      There's something about the way this character was handled that I really liked. She makes the world feel bigger: she's an established member of the Fire Bear nation, who already has a life and a place in the world before the hero comes along. You speak to people, learn about her, go to where she lives and recruit her. In doing so she leaves her old life behind and the world changes to reflect that (through newspaper articles and npc dialogue. In general I loved the newspapers, they really made the world feel alive, reactive, and were generally so fun to read.) This is in contrast to many games whose party members just stumble in from stage left - literally run onto the screen from nowhere during a cutscene - and force themselves into your company from out of the blue. I don't know quite how to put it... they did a great job with the party members in this game. They all have a reason to join Higan on his quest, and he doesn't pick them up like some kind of entourage. The developers really put in the spade work to made them feel like significant, fleshed-out characters.

      While Higan is just starting out in adult life, Hisui knows she is coming to the end of hers. This telegraphs that your time together will be temporary, a smart move from the developers because a) nobody appreciates an Aerith-style rug-pull, so when a party death is coming it's good to be able to brace yourself for it and b) it defines their relationship of these travelling companions as, well, travelling companions - somewhat unusual when most RPG parties operate more like guilds that offer life-long membership. I feel like the reason that matters is because early on you spend a big chunk of the game, perhaps as much as 15-20%, alone. It's lonely! And kind of hard! You don't have a healer! So you value her companionship, not just as a character but as a helping hand against the hardships ahead. And when she's gone, you don't just feel sad for her passing, but also the return of the loneliness of the road. The narrative moment in the game, the emotional state of the player, is reinforced by means of the gameplay. This is a simple thing, but it's effective.

   Mizuki and Tenjin
      Oh boy, these two. What I love about their part in the story is that, tragic as their situation is, the game never feels the need to beat you over the head about it. The back-story between the pair is built up gradually. We have to piece it together through encounters with Sara and Juri, two strongly characterised villains with a lot of their own stuff going on, who provide you with information that's clearly partial and not entirely trustworthy. We know that Tenjin loved Mizuki, but we're not quite sure what became of her or where she is. Then, in a big reveal, the mandala flute is played, and in an instant and we realise the tragedy of the pair. Alive, immortal (?), so close as to share the same body - and yet separated forever. And yet the game never resorts to melodrama. The lovers bear their pain with sad, stoic dignity.

       While they're all a colourful bunch, Tenjin is the misfit in the party. He's pensive and reserved, even condescending. This contrasts with Higan and Subaru, much as their circumstances contrast - they out on their first adventure of their lives, he carting around the baggage of an accumulated 600 years. He loves to show off using riddles, which confuse everyone to whom they're offered. Mizuki seems to have a more natural affinity with the people she meets, perhaps reflective of their shared status as creations of Ninigi, and of her decision to defy him in order to defend the world.

       And then we have the mirror scene. It's not a long conversation, but they manage to pack an awful lot into it. I liked that Mizuki was able to answer Tenjin's riddle immediately, confirming the strength of their bond. It's a small detail, but a well told story is one that gets its small details right. Speaking of small details, I loved that they  made unique animations for this conversation, to communicate the little things that go unsaid: Tenjin looking sorrowfully at the ground as he tries to apologise (he says he 'kills her'.. I couldn't tell if he was actually confessing to have dealt her the fatal blow, or blamed himself for failing to protect her.) The gesture Mizuki makes as she says 'they're things we have within each of us', the way she wraps her arms around her chest, was heart breaking. Unable to embrace Tenjin, she instead holds herself, closing her eyes tight. I'm not ashamed to admit this scene actually made me cry!

   The setting and the villains
      The sad, embittered emnity between Agni and Ninigi is a compelling dynamic, at least as far as RPG lore goes. I liked that most of the major villains some substance - a driving philosophy, or at least a motivation beyond common or garden evil. In the memorable scene where you meet her, Agni is able to reconcile her ambivalence, her curiosity and hostility regarding the creatures of the Earth. I'd hoped Ninigi would have a similar epiphany regarding the worlds and peoples he sought to conquer.. he almost seems to have one in his final speech ('do you hate me that much, Agni?'), but ultimately he comes off as a little flat.

      His underlings are a more interesting bunch. Juri and Sara are great, Kinging too, and the Akamaru twist really managed to blind-side me. From reading the manual, you get the impression that he's the standard goofy comedic relief sidekick, and his appearance in game definitely matches up with that.. up until the moment he reveals himself as a villain! I only refused to give him the key to the airship because I was messing about -you can have a lot of fun winding up Subaru by refusing to act like a proper hero. Imagine my surprise when I initiated a fight!

      Speaking of Amakamaru, I really appreciate that you went the extra mile to translate the Kansai dialect and not just substitute it out for Southern USA, my friend! Meaning is often as much bound up in the way words are spoken as it is in the words themselves, so the substitution of a foreign dialect is not a decision to be taken lightly. Localisers who are happy to substitute cultural 'nearest neighbours' risk allowing a great deal of meaning to slip through the cracks while introducing other, unintended association foreign to the original work. I know that a certain amount of this is inevitable in any translation, but I think sometimes people are too relaxed about it. And all so that an audience never has to look up, for example, what ramen is or why there's no jury in the courtroom (damn you Capcom!)

   The Takamagahara hermit
      "Winding by without a sound, like time. Fluttering quietly, like the wind. Murmuring softly, like the stars. Cloudy Grotto, where time and wind fly by... Cloudy Grotto, where the stars do twinkle... I, the Takamagahara Hermit, am the only one here. [...] I must watch over it alone. I alone must watch the passing of time."
      
      This was just a beautiful little piece of dialogue. I don't expressly know why the developers chose to put it in. It doesn't really exposit information relevant to the plot.. but there's nothing like ruminations on time and eternity to make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.

      I don't know. It's just one of those moments that happen sometimes in games, where you find a character or a location that just stays with you.

Anyway. I could go on but this post is already beyond excessive in length. Really I just wanted Tom to know that people are still playing the game, enjoying the game, thinking about the game, and that it's all thanks to his efforts, as well as those of DDSTranslation, DougRPG, FlashPV, LostTemplar and Byuu. Reading the thread my feeling was that his mood was a little despondent, but rather than a funeral for the series, I hope he might come to share my perspective, which is that that his work has given this game new life.


Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1167 on: May 25, 2018, 04:59:43 am »
Wow! Thank you so much for posting this, RetroGaijin. I enjoyed reading your reaction, thoughts, and your story.

You -get it-. You really understand Tengai Makyou Zero, and I'm glad you appreciated all of those little details.

After finishing a translation, I always try to find out what people thought... I hop around on the various sites, hoping to hear people discussing the plot, sharing their favorite moments... But I rarely encounter people who really get into it.

A reaction like yours is a real treasure to me.

dejan07

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1168 on: May 26, 2018, 06:36:51 am »
RetroGaijin you should do a youtube video review and use that post as a script for the video.

PersianImm0rtal

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1169 on: June 12, 2018, 04:41:12 pm »
Wow! Thank you so much for posting this, RetroGaijin. I enjoyed reading your reaction, thoughts, and your story.

You -get it-. You really understand Tengai Makyou Zero, and I'm glad you appreciated all of those little details.

After finishing a translation, I always try to find out what people thought... I hop around on the various sites, hoping to hear people discussing the plot, sharing their favorite moments... But I rarely encounter people who really get into it.

A reaction like yours is a real treasure to me.

I am going to start the game soon too! Going to be playing it on my Sony PVM monitor. Will the PC Engine titles in the series ever be subbed, dubbed, or fully translated either?

GHANMI

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1170 on: June 12, 2018, 10:45:18 pm »
They even have a pachinko machine version of it!
I remember that one. It's less a legitimate version and more a self-parody, except it isn't that funny once you realize it was made under Konami's tenure just before they killed off Hudson.
Fubuki's scene was popular, so they included it there -- as floating orbs circling around her as she flails her hands at the screen, and of course you have to feed the machine more coins to remove all of these orbs and she does a defeat animation straight out of a Mario Party game. Fuck Konami.

Pretty cool Haruka made it to an Oreshika game too. Shoji Masuda's games are interconnected in ways that keep surprising me: even Linda Cube was conceived from ideas that never made it to Tengai Makyou 2 (and the unreleased 3). I hope the Haruka novel, in other words the real Tengai Makyou 3 script, gets translated in some way.

Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1171 on: June 13, 2018, 07:01:45 am »
I am going to start the game soon too! Going to be playing it on my Sony PVM monitor. Will the PC Engine titles in the series ever be subbed, dubbed, or fully translated either?

I'll get to Ziria with EsperKnight once we get Haruhi and Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Children - Ice Book squared away.

Unfortunately, I have no experience putting together a dub project. :(

I heard it wasn't possible to add subs to the base game, but maybe someone can make an "upgraded" emulator that can do what can't be done on hardware.

I can't imagine dubbing Kabuki's musical numbers without getting some really talented people who know how to sing and put together music in a way that doesn't sound embarrassingly amateur.

Pretty cool Haruka made it to an Oreshika game too. Shoji Masuda's games are interconnected in ways that keep surprising me: even Linda Cube was conceived from ideas that never made it to Tengai Makyou 2 (and the unreleased 3). I hope the Haruka novel, in other words the real Tengai Makyou 3 script, gets translated in some way.

I'll try to get both volumes, if I come across them.

Melchior

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1172 on: June 13, 2018, 10:50:32 am »
I don't know if I reported it yet,
BUT the Higan work in progress builds have borked the use of the given FEOEZ manifest file...
as Byuu changed layout of the bml manifest files around.... AND cheat files too...

https://gitlab.com/higan/higan/commits/master


Update to v106r18 release.
https://gitlab.com/higan/higan/commit/b69909be8db843716a20fb6726ec9f2c5a57cc4d
Quote
- major restructuring of board manifests


Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1173 on: June 13, 2018, 09:54:01 pm »
Byuu told us earlier that he'd make sure later editions of Higan won't require the bml at all for TM Zero. I told DDSTrans about it now, and he said that it doesn't warrant an update because when there is a proper update for Higan, it won't require a bml anyway - so there's no need to append a whole bunch of bmls for each increment before the full upgrade to Higan.

Melchior

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1174 on: June 13, 2018, 09:57:05 pm »
Ok, if you say so Tom..
I'm not much in a hurry to play it anyway, I can wait.

Darth Link X

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1175 on: June 14, 2018, 07:57:51 am »
Keep up the good work Tom. I immensely enjoyed both Zero and Oriental Blue and I'm really looking forward for the Ziria translation whenever  you may put it out.

dejan07

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1176 on: June 14, 2018, 10:47:55 am »
Ok, if you say so Tom..
I'm not much in a hurry to play it anyway, I can wait.

If you are waiting on Byuu to do anything you must have a Buddha-like patience. You will sooner achieve enlightenment before you will see that Higan update.

Thumbs up for Darth Link X and Ziria!


patuli

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1177 on: July 07, 2018, 12:15:18 am »
Well now that I finish the game, I have some questions
how do you get momoko back, I got 8 letter's and now she's gone!
I was able to get the fetish wife back, but I cant find momoko!
Subaru egg combinations, I was only able to do the 500 damage fairy because there was a post on gamefaqs about it.
but i want to know how to do the other ones, time and feeds!
I can't understand anything on the Japanese site (google translator is crap!)
The precious chest in turtle castle (the one that the princess gives you)
Is there a list of the prizes by time?
there's a Subaru ring that says 20% attack boost drop per hit, so .... every time Subaru hits is 20% for a drop?
so if i hit a enemy 5 times physical with Subaru a drop is guarantee?
BTW the fetish wife steal all my items! I have 2 or 3 of the requested items and she steals all not just one!
there was a crab family that tells me something about a cave and a monkey, give me a helmet, but there was nothing in the cave!
is that a new game + thing?
is there anyway to sort the items, weapons, armors, accessories in all pages and not per bookmarks?
or put bookmarks for a specific type of item, accommodate one by one per bookmark is a pain in the ass, with the quantity of items this game have.
another thing i notice is that hidden items have a specific position example if i search a pot by the side cant get the item but if i search a pot by front i get the item, the same thing happen in the turtle hidden treasure i have to search facing north, doing the search south didn't work!
How to do the robot special attacks? I only discover the missiles Hold X+hadouken+A
theres a hermit that gives you a pork spell, what does it does?
never notice anything, while casting other than a little pig on a tree!
that's all I hope someone could answer all that (I really want momoko back!)


Tom

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1178 on: July 07, 2018, 04:04:07 pm »
Did you read all of Momoko's letters? You can open each of them in the item screen. Once you do, you'll find out why you're unable to find her.

Here are the three other flies you can grow from the eggs at the hatchery:

1. 0 minutes to 23 h. and 59 min.
2. 24 hours to 39 h. 59 min. (or use Head, Heart, Body, and Mystery Kibble in that order, and hatch it instantly at zero minutes)
3. 50 hours to 59 h. 59 min.

Princess Mitsuko's chest times

1. Under 12 hours - Kusa Dango
2. Between 12 and 30 hours - Rainbow Shard
3. Between 30 and 50 hours - Love Pendant
4. Over 50 hours - Life Liquor

No idea if Subaru can stack the drop rate.

Miho rips you off. Get used to it!

The cave is empty until you get the proper combination of items. You are probably missing the Mortar Armor, which can only be obtained by eating mochi at a festival and then returning to the festival ground shortly after it's over and receiving it from the guy who is waiting in the empty lot.

You can organize the span of items covered by the bookmarks by highlighting and moving the bookmark in the item screen, but there is no way to automatically manage what goes into what bookmark. If you want to organize it a certain way, you have to do it manually.

The hermit explains the "Oink" scroll when you get it. It drops one random stat for one random character. It could hit anyone, even your own party memebers.

Ma-Djinn controls:
Punch: A
Shield: B
Missles: Hold X, down, down-right, right+A
Laser: Hold X, start on left, left-down, down, down-right, right+A

Super Money-king (player 2's controller, only at the arcade machine at some festivals)
Punch: A
Shield: B
Missles: Hold X, down, down-left, left+A
Tail: Hold X, down, down-right, right+A
Laser: Hold X, left, left-down, down, down-right, right+A

magictrufflez

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Re: Tengai Makyou Zero translation project
« Reply #1179 on: July 07, 2018, 04:48:36 pm »
No idea if Subaru can stack the drop rate.

I will confirm the drop rate does stack, but I'm not 100% sure on the math. Based on the King's Bracelet farming I did, I imagine it continues to multiply the rate by x1.2 for every hit/kill. So, for example, if the base drop rate was 5%, and you landed 5 hits/kills with Subaru, the drop rate calc would look something like this:

(((((0.05*1.2)*1.2)*1.2)*1.2)*1.2) = ~12.4%

Tenjin's mirror skill that replicates a weaker copy of an enemy will allow you to exploit this pretty brutally by replicating infinite copies of the enemy you want a drop from (IIRC the ones that drops the King's Bracelet and some stat boosters--all of which disappear after various plot points--are the only ones worth doing this for). When replicating AND using Subaru's drop weapon, you get increased drop rates AND a huge increase in drop opportunities (since each kill will be a chance for a drop, as usual).