News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules

Author Topic: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!  (Read 20920 times)

Tom

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2016, 02:28:19 am »
I don't think the name calling is warranted. Byuu cares about his craft. I do too. That said, there is some truth to what you say. It really does seem to be a matter of decades considering the scope of what byuu wants to do with the debugger. It may not be realistic to wait that long.

I think I'll post a video showing some of the issues with the current rom to put the problems with the game in perspective. I'll have to record it and edit it, and I'm bad about that sort of thing, but I'll see what I can do. I'll let you know after I upload it.

So far, the project hasn't  involved many people, only three. (I did the script, Lost Templar did the hacking, and byuu customized the script editing program. I think all three of us have been integral to bringing the game to the point where it is today.) I hope that people not only respect the work that I put in, but the work that they put in as well.

I agree with Cargodin in that rushing the game out in a buggy state would not do the game justice.

Hiei-

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2016, 03:29:04 am »
I re-established contact with LostTemplar by email a matter of months ago. He mentioned some personal matters and said that he wanted to finish a different project first, which I suppose must have been your project. I'm sorry to hear that you've had no progress, both for your sake and mine as well.

I don't think it was my project because it wasn't really a "real" project. It was just someone I know who translated Arabian Nights from japanese to french with a canadian hacker who seems to have dropped the project, so we had just planned to ask and use LostTemplar work to reinsert the french version.

LostTemplar was okay about that idea, we started working on it but after a while, he dissapeared (and yeah, I supposed he had some personal problems so I haven't retried to contact him to not bother him).

What I mean is if it's this project he was referring to, then it won't be a big problem as most of the work is already done.

Quote from: Nightcrawler link=topic=22799.msg31a9549#msg319549 date=1475710517
I'm not clear on this. Is the script available for a hacker to pick up and complete said hacking? Or should this topic just be ignored as no new news? If you want your work to have a large impact, you might want to get it out there sooner rather than later before someone else's work on the game takes that spot instead. For all practical purposes, this project was abandoned years ago and other efforts may have started.

From what I read, the english main script is already reinserted (so basically, the work left to do is everything else) so I guess if someone want to redo everything one day, there won't really be any script to share but rather a rom where the hacker should extract the english script from it (which is not a bad thing, it would avoid to remodel the script or copy-paste it in a new dump format).
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 03:55:43 pm by Hiei- »

Pennywise

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2016, 06:55:27 am »
I'll just say that it's a waste of time to count on byuu. He's his own special person...

He's been saying the same thing about Bahamut Lagoon for 10+ years now as well and nothing has yet to come of it. Given that he's made no progress on FEoEZ, he probably never will.

Tom

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2016, 12:20:20 pm »
Thanks your clarifying the situation with that project, Hiei-.

I don't think counting on byuu's a waste of time. The main issue with byuu is that he wants a proper debugger before working on fan translations, but his passion is not for fan translations. He'd rather do emulation work, and I can see things from that perspective. If he can make most effective use of his time getting closer to 100 percent accurate emulation, that will do more in the scheme of things than focusing on a debugger to work on Tengai Makyou Zero and Bahamut Lagoon, two games that practically no English speaking gamers even know about.

However, Nightcrawler said something that resonated with me. If no progress continues, then clearly people will think of it as a dead translation and begin working on it on their own. I guess it's up to me to make the project come back to life. I'll send a few e-mails out to byuu, Lost Templar, and Gemini on the weekend. Personally, I'd like Gemini to pick up the reigns, even if he's not comfortable with the SFC platform, because I know Gemini never cuts corners, and works hard to get things right. If not, well... We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Pennywise

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2016, 01:05:15 pm »
I don't have anything against byuu, but in my opinion he's just lying to himself about this need for a special debugger. It's not necessary, not that it wouldn't be welcome.

While I don't believe the SNES has the best debugging tools of all the old school systems, what's out there is more than capable of getting the job done. LostTemplar hacked the majority of FEoEZ without a special debugger and a few other hackers have incorporated proportional fonts in all aspects of text, even some menu-heavy games without a special debugger. So really, I don't think FEoEZ is really that extraordinary that it needs a special tool. Whatever's out there is more than likely enough to make a beautiful hack.

Tom

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2016, 08:50:22 pm »
Byuu never said that it was necessary, just that he didn't want to use any shortcuts. He wanted something that he could implement directly into his emulator. Considering that his goal is to make the perfect emulator, and not simply to facilitate translations, it makes sense in hindsight that the fan translations would be an afterthought, not the priority.

I realize that Tengai Makyou is certainly hackable using what's out there. It's just that I want to respect the people I've worked with. I'm confident that he would be able to make good on his word... But people are impatient, and sooner or later, someone else will try to finish the game up. I might as well try to make it happen on my own terms.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 09:16:32 pm by Tommy »

elmer

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2016, 09:41:10 pm »
Yeah, that's right. Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished! The Holy Grail of SNES RPG's is finally translated by Tom's translations!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8kWIm-Bcas

The only thing left to do is to hack a few menus and compile all the data into a patch.

Hmmm ... this isn't a dig at you, but may I ask what you actually do have working in-game, in a ROM that you can burn onto an Everdrive (or equivalent) and run on a real SNES without a programmer manually loading up your decompressed translation into memory in an emulator. i.e. without an emulator, or a custom script-editor's tricks?

I ask, because I've spent the last year (pretty-much-fulltime, since I'm semi-retired) picking up a project that "only needed a little menu work", and taking it from something that the translator honestly believed was a "complete translation", into something that actually really is a "complete translation" that runs on the original machine.

Depending upon what you've actually got running "bug free" on real hardware ... there can be a long time and a lot of work between where you are and something that really runs properly in the game engine, just like the original text did.

Tom

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2016, 12:02:30 am »
Elmer (and everyone else), I think I need to clarify something. Dejan07 (the person who started this thread) has nothing to do with the project. They're just someone who saw the footage on my Youtube channel, and started this thread about how the translation was "finished," a misleading word. They left me a message on my Youtube channel telling me to come to this thread.

Nobody actually involved with the project (and certainly not I) have said that the project is complete, only that the script translation is complete.

And it is. The text is inserted (though the menus are left in Japanese, due to the way the small font is handled, I believe). All of the menu text has been translated despite this fact. The menus in the current rom that are left in Japanese are only shown that way so the game can still be played without the small font incorporated.

The fact is, the project itself is nowhere near complete. Only the script is. It's not running on "real hardware." It's running on bsnes with a font file for the large font appended to the emulator. It needs a dedicated hacker working directly with me to solve the remaining issues... (A new smaller font, some text overwrite issues like when a long string appears before a short string in battle, traces of the long string will remain in the battle feed window, for instance). Graphics are entirely unedited as well. Some things may need to be cut (like selecting from a list of kanji to stand as four in-battle customized strategies). This feature is meaningless in the English version, and will have to be handled differently in English.

Although the game is crash free up to the credits (where it finally crashes), it's not glitch free. As I said, the battle text has overwrite glitches, some longer enemy names become invisible... And there are also some tiny things to spruce up. For instance, place names appear twice when you enter a town, once in kanji and another time in kana. This is redundant in English, so it should be altered to only display the name once. There might be other little snags that will require substantial hacking efforts.

Nothing impossible, but it's certainly not something that can be done in an afternoon, if you know what I mean. With the hacking and beta testing, it'll take at the very least several months to complete the hacking, and plenty more time to fully test it.

The only thing that hasn't been completed translation-wise is the manual... I could finish it up easily if I had some pressing reason to do so, though. Getting an image editor to do the manual while compiling the English screenshots using a fully hacked final version of the rom will also take some time, but that's something that could be done during beta testing.

elmer

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2016, 12:58:06 pm »
Elmer (and everyone else), I think I need to clarify something. Dejan07 (the person who started this thread) has nothing to do with the project. They're just someone who saw the footage on my Youtube channel, and started this thread about how the translation was "finished," a misleading word. They left me a message on my Youtube channel telling me to come to this thread.

Nobody actually involved with the project (and certainly not I) have said that the project is complete, only that the script translation is complete.

Thanks for the clarification!  :)

It's great to have folks happy that a translation is being done ... but it's hard for them to understand the implications of each step of the development from the "outside".


Quote
The fact is, the project itself is nowhere near complete. Only the script is. It's not running on "real hardware." It's running on bsnes with a font file for the large font appended to the emulator. It needs a dedicated hacker working directly with me to solve the remaining issues... (A new smaller font, some text overwrite issues like when a long string appears before a short string in battle, traces of the long string will remain in the battle feed window, for instance). Graphics are entirely unedited as well. Some things may need to be cut (like selecting from a list of kanji to stand as four in-battle customized strategies). This feature is meaningless in the English version, and will have to be handled differently in English.

Although the game is crash free up to the credits (where it finally crashes), it's not glitch free. As I said, the battle text has overwrite glitches, some longer enemy names become invisible... And there are also some tiny things to spruce up.

...

Nothing impossible, but it's certainly not something that can be done in an afternoon, if you know what I mean. With the hacking and beta testing, it'll take at the very least several months to complete the hacking, and plenty more time to fully test it.

Excellent ... this is the kind of info that I was curious about, thanks for the details.  :thumbsup:

Sounds like you've got the important extraction/translation/basic-insertion all sorted out, but now you're going to need a lot of programmer-time to fix-up the memory overruns that it sounds like you're suffering with the longer English text.

Then there's also all the extra stuff that you mention.

Everything sounds "solvable" with enough time and passion, but yes, "it's certainly not something that can be done in an afternoon".

You may be surprised at just how long it takes a programmer to fix-up those things, depending upon the program structure and data layout.

At least with the SNES, you should have possibility of expanding the ROM size to give yourself some extra breathing-room for code/data if you need it (although that can have its own problems).

Tom

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2016, 04:44:01 am »
Yes, many people are under the impression that the script translation is the hard part, and the hacking is the easy part, which couldn't be further from the truth. I know all too well how much time and effort it takes to properly hack a game. That's why I want to be sure it's done right, by a hacker I can trust.


Hiei-

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2016, 04:01:58 pm »
If LostTemplar is back, I would say the best is just to wait until he's free to finish the project (except if you find another hacker you are fine to work with).

He's the one who started the hacking (and who did near all the actual hacking if I read correctly), so he might be the best person to do the job.

Even if it take years, I guess it would still be faster than Byuu (which seems to have awesome skills but which doesn't seem motivated from his answers when people were asking for news about the project on his board, it even seems he deleted the thread? Searched for it a while ago and haven't found it back).

Jorpho

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2016, 07:45:59 pm »
The last time I heard of Byuu, he'd completely and utterly had it with all of his projects and with coding in general.  Did he change his mind?
This signature is an illusion and is a trap devised by Satan. Go ahead dauntlessly! Make rapid progres!

Tom

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2016, 08:40:46 pm »
Hiei: Well, LostTemplar is not "back," exactly... But I have contacted him, and he is aware of the situation. He certainly seems like the best alternative to byuu. Back in the day, LostTemplar said to me... "Either I can hack the project, or byuu can do it. Byuu will do a better job with it, though. Who would you like to hack the game?" He had just said that byuu would do a better job with it, so naturally I went with byuu. You are correct in your understanding that LostTemplar is the one that has done all the hacking thus far. Byuu's contribution to the project was the customized script editor (which I still absolutely love).

LostTemplar understands Japanese and has played through the Japanese version. He has worked on a German translation, and as far as I know, either finished it or was very close to finishing it. (His translation was based on the Japanese script, not derived from my English translation.) He thoroughly understands exactly what needs to be hacked, and where, so less guidance would be necessary from me. He seems like the best alternative to byuu... But like I said earlier, he has other obligations and another project that he needs to take care of first.

By the way, byuu did not delete the old thread about Tengai Makyou Zero. He changed his message board to a different website, so the old posts didn't carry over.

Jorpho: Byuu went through a period (shortly after I'd completed the translation), in which he wanted to do other things instead of programming, because he wanted to broaden his horizons, so to speak. However, he still is interested in working on his multi-system emulator, Higan. (Oddly enough, Higan is the name of the hero in Tengai Makyou Zero.) At the moment, he is very passionate about adding accurate Genesis support, as well as redumping carts to get totally uncorrupted dumps of every game.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 09:36:53 pm by Tommy »

tvtoon

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2016, 10:33:10 am »
If you can change the menus and so, then the "fast" work is preferred.
As I recall from byuu forums, the clock just rewinds itself, so it is not a big deal. Playing the game as it was intended is better than packing up expensive hacks in a translation.

Chronosplit

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2016, 01:19:01 pm »
If you can change the menus and so, then the "fast" work is preferred.
As I recall from byuu forums, the clock just rewinds itself, so it is not a big deal. Playing the game as it was intended is better than packing up expensive hacks in a translation.

This.  You can always just make it an optional patch later, or an addendum.

Tom

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2016, 07:15:59 pm »
Tvtoon and Chronosplit, you said that the game should be played as it was intended, and I agree. However, it was intended to be played in real time, tied to the calendar. When it's Tuesday in the real world, it's Tuesday in the game. For instance, there may be a shop that is only open between certain hours on Tuesdays or Thursdays... If the calendar doesn't match the current year, the days and date will be out of synch.

Having the calendar hacked properly is critical to the "real time" experience of Tengai Makyou Zero. It's not something that's optional. It is an integral part of the original experience, and hacking is necessary to make it work in the English version. It's a corner that should definitely not be cut.

DougRPG

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2016, 09:15:48 pm »
Hi Tom, forget about Byuu doing this translation. He won't do it, 99,9% sure.
Like you said he likes emulation, not translations, so he will keep pushing this new debugger ad infinitum.

He is a nice guy and probably one of the best persons to do a great hack in this game, but time proved that he is not the guy you are looking for.

The guys I suggest to you are Bongo (he very active) and Nightcrawler.
As far as I know Nightcrawler finished the Glory of Heracles 4 hack, and from his messages about Glory of Heracles 4, this game has much more complex menus than FEOEZ. So I'm certain he can do an amazing work in FEOEZ.

Another option is wait for Lost Templar, but he is out of scene for years, so who knows when, or if, he could go back to romhacking.

Bonesy

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2016, 02:28:16 am »
in any case the real issue here is a community effort to inform and cut down on these sort of "OH HEY THE THING IS DONE BUT NOT ACTUALLY IF YOU ACTUALLY READ" threads

x5t

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2016, 05:04:53 pm »
The guys I suggest to you are Bongo (he very active) and Nightcrawler.
As far as I know Nightcrawler finished the Glory of Heracles 4 hack, and from his messages about Glory of Heracles 4, this game has much more complex menus than FEOEZ. So I'm certain he can do an amazing work in FEOEZ.

I would like to add to your thoughts. To do it, please let me quote Nightcrawler.

"It doesn't surprise me. He [Byuu] hasn't been serious about doing any ROM hacking in a very long time. BSNES and the cracking of the chip algorithms makes hacking this game quite a bit easier than it was a few years back. Few people remain with the skills necessary to do a translation for FEOEZ. I keep hoping someone else will do it and save me the time, but it looks more and more unlikely as time goes on. I am over booked at present, but I will see that this game is translated before I retire. I own a copy of this game too."

Source: http://transcorp.romhacking.net/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229220691/15#15

This post was five years ago. Byuu will never do FEOEZ. The way he treated people asking him about progress in his message board was quite dishonorable, by the way. Nightcrawler is an awsome hacker with an outstanding track record. Have a look at his finished projects. Just ask him, maybe he is willing to do it as it seems that work on Heracles 4 is steadily coming to an end. In my eyes he would be the perfect choice. Furthermore Bongo from Dynamic Designs (very active, gets projects done, good quality of hacking) or Lost Templar (impressive work with Arabian Nights!) come to my mind.

Melchior

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Re: Far East of Eden Zero translation is finished!
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2017, 01:50:09 pm »
Whaaaat!!?? some one actually finished translating it?! WOW and I didn't even see this post TILL NOW?!

sorry for necroing... ;p

well there is only one that I know of and that is Nightcrawler
maybe he could add it his site's list of projects....

EVEN if it TAKES A THOUSAND YEARS, I WILL WAIT FOR IT/THEM..!! ;) ;)
been waiting for more then a decade...

I keep a copy of the (J) ROM on hand FOR THE DAY THIS IS FINISHED!!! Wjhahaha
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 07:34:11 pm by Melchior »