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Author Topic: Seiken Densetsu 2 Beta Map  (Read 4670 times)

Snatcher

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Seiken Densetsu 2 Beta Map
« on: June 23, 2016, 08:14:27 pm »
I've been purchasing Japanese Seiken Densetsu 2 guides on Ebay and recently got the Seiken Densetsu 2 Scoop Guide. When I was looking through it, I noticed that some the images are different from the release game.

Here is what appears to be a beta map of SD2. Most of the continents look the same, but a lot of the locations and towns are different. Also the desert area is larger and the Tree Palace is missing.



This is the text that's written above the map:


The map image isn't very good, it wasn't printed very well on the page. but if anyone is interested I can give link to the full page 600 DPI scan.
"This is a work of fiction. If you find any relation to real people, events, or locations, then you are obviously on crack."
-Kishimoto Masashi

FCandChill

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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2016, 08:25:06 pm »
 Comment removed because reasons...
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 04:02:22 pm by FCandChill »

Snatcher

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Beta Map
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2016, 08:33:38 pm »
tcrf.net would probably be interested in this

Thanks, I'll post it there too.
"This is a work of fiction. If you find any relation to real people, events, or locations, then you are obviously on crack."
-Kishimoto Masashi

Avster

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Beta Map
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2016, 11:23:54 pm »
.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 06:57:02 pm by Avster »

Tomato

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Beta Map
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2016, 12:35:57 pm »
Nice! Here's an even earlier one I found in a booklet about Square games


Chronosplit

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Beta Map
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2016, 01:42:00 pm »
Woah, those maps changed a lot between beta stages!

Speaking of beta, I remember reading once here that a lot of what was once planned for SD2/Secret of Mana was put into Chrono Trigger.  Can anyone confirm that theory?

VicVergil

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Beta Map
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2016, 02:53:05 pm »
Speaking of beta, I remember reading once here that a lot of what was once planned for SD2/Secret of Mana was put into Chrono Trigger.  Can anyone confirm that theory?

Original concept for Secret of Mana was darker than what got released. So it's possible.

A bigger shame is Nintendo's initial concept for SNES-CD Marvelous. 11 minutes of 90's anime with very different characters, unseen outside of magazine scans. Game was cut to 2 Satellaview releases and a regular SNES one (with lots of inaccessible/empty houses and plot hooks).

Snatcher

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Beta Map
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2016, 07:01:04 pm »
Nice! Here's an even earlier one I found in a booklet about Square games



Wow! It looks like they were working on setting up the locations for the story and didn't really have the world map planned out yet.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 08:25:03 pm by Snatcher »
"This is a work of fiction. If you find any relation to real people, events, or locations, then you are obviously on crack."
-Kishimoto Masashi

SageOwl

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Beta Map
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2016, 12:42:43 pm »
Woah, those maps changed a lot between beta stages!

Speaking of beta, I remember reading once here that a lot of what was once planned for SD2/Secret of Mana was put into Chrono Trigger.  Can anyone confirm that theory?
The theory can be confirmed, but it sure as shit cannot be proven. They really wanted to make Chrono Trigger and not another Seiken Densetsu. The were apparently what was cut off from more important projects and stitched together into a game. It's sad, but that's pretty much the truth of it according to the creators. It's amazing that they were able to make such amazing games with what they had to work with. Just goes to show you how gaming has changed in the modern age of clones and cashgrabs.
Even Xenogears was called "Chrono Trigger 2" in it's development.

From Legends of Localization's article on this, quoting Hiromichi Tanaka (the producer of the game): "After we finished FFIII, we started FFIV with the idea of a slightly more action-based, dynamic overworld rather than keep combat as a completely separate thing. But, at some point, it wound up not being IV anymore… Instead, it was eventually released as “Seiken Densetsu 2” (Secret of Mana), but during development it was actually referred to as 'Chrono Trigger'. (laugh)"

I'd wager it to be a massively different game if it had panned out the way it was supposed to be; maybe even a different game entirely. It was to feature a "seamless, side-view system" which makes me think of Y's 3. I read some where that FFA/Seiken Densetsu was actually supposed to be a 3D dungeon crawler that was to predate Dragon Quest as the first commercially available RPG in Japan. One could speculate it would have taken off like a rocket into the sky and everything would have been "Seiken Densetsu" in the 80's/90's, but that's debatable. Just goes to show you that they really did not have a clear image of what Seiken Densetsu was supposed to be, but that could be because they wanted to keep making Final Fantasy.
Personally, I think if they knew that the Playstation was going to come out and shelved the Nintendo game, then we may have actually had the real SoM/Chrono Trigger rather than the two games we got. If that would have been better is debatable. Chrono Trigger is a hard game to give up to the void, but if it could have been improved, then maybe it would have been worth it.

reconstructingmana

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Beta Map
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2016, 09:48:46 pm »
I was aware of Mato's map, but the first one is new to me.  I think the Lost Continent was a bit of a rush job.  Fascinating stuff, though.  Speaking of lost content and maps, there is one in the ROM (Map #135).  It has the basement of the Water Palace with the jail cell.  I don't believe this room was ever used in the game, but in the SoM Editor, Luka is present.  She never goes down there.  Am I missing something, or was this event cut from the game?

zhade

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 2 Beta Map
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2016, 11:46:55 am »

The map image isn't very good, it wasn't printed very well on the page. but if anyone is interested I can give link to the full page 600 DPI scan.


Im interested ;)

And btw, what else is in that "scoop" guide ?

Speaking of lost content and maps, there is one in the ROM (Map #135).  It has the basement of the Water Palace with the jail cell.  I don't believe this room was ever used in the game, but in the SoM Editor, Luka is present.  She never goes down there.  Am I missing something, or was this event cut from the game?

Luka do appear in the prison at some point, like you said on your blog. I used her as my test subject when looking into animation scripts and AI. It sure looks like something was cut in there tho as she just stays in prison once you open the cell, walking around randomly, which I always had found funny.