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Author Topic: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)  (Read 74454 times)

Mugi

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #260 on: June 08, 2019, 03:33:25 pm »
i was gonna say the same, but decided to just stay quiet since the emulator lovers always attack me for being an emu-hater :P

at any rate, it's definitely an issue to worry about exactly because of what Disch said.
In PSP we trust.

Chaos Rush

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #261 on: June 08, 2019, 04:32:07 pm »
I’ve looked over at some of the replies from the past 2 years and I think it’s safe to say that there is definitely demand for a hardware-compatible version.

Despite me saying on the previous page that I have no interest in maintaining this, I’ve come to realize that if I were to leave this behind and leave that audience hanging, it would be a dick move of me.

Rodimus Primal is free to continue on with the MMC5 version and it can be looked at as the “fully translated, definitive, non-abridged version” for people that have emulators compatible with it and want to experience something very close to the DS version in 8-bit style.

Given that at this point I’m probably the only person semi-active in the community that’s most familiar with how FFIII’s text system works, I realize that it would be wrong of me to sit back and be all “well good luck everyone, bye”. I’m going through some ideas in my head, and I think I can come up with something, but I’m not sure of the timeframe. Even though I said I’m not interested in condensing the script, maybe I can instead just do a new translation from scratch with minimalism in mind, and I would still get value from it since I get to work with Japanese text after all (I’m not interested in doing an English—>English project but I’m open to doing a new Japanese—>English project). All I’m saying is that I don’t want to leave you guys hanging.

In the mean time, I’d like to ask, for those of you that have played FFII on GBA and my FFII on NES, how did they compare? Did the FFII:R felt like it left out a lot of details or did it serve its purpose well? I’m asking because, though I don’t want to ignore Bregalad’s compression notes, I think simple DTE compression might be the way to go, but if that route is taken then you can expect the quality to be similar to FFII:R.
Because I was part of the Pokémon ROM hacking community for over 10 years, if you find a patch made by someone that’s an addendum to a patch of mine, make sure you credit the person who made the patch as the author, not me :)

mariosmentor

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #262 on: June 08, 2019, 07:48:47 pm »
Well, I had a wall of text planned, but I realized I was missing the point of the question.

Special

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #263 on: June 08, 2019, 08:30:01 pm »
And 100 other ways to ensure your hack will not be future proof and will only work on select emulators.


The hardware is the standard.  If it works on hardware it will always work on every emulator ever made now and forever.

But if it doesn't work on the hardware, it's very possible your hack will be unusable in future generations of emulators as they grow more accurate.  It's "this hack only works on NESticle '95" all over again.


So... yes... worry about hardware issues.  Absolutely 100%.

Okay... The point here is what's done is done, he has no interest in starting from scratch again to make this hack work on real hardware, and is now discouraged to even fix what little there's left to fix in his current hack because of the incompatibility issues, I'm saying he shouldn't fret over that so much because it's a very small minority of players, would you rather him just not bother at all? Like no shit if he were to go back in time before you started anything he should go the method of real hardware compatibility, but that's not an option.

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #264 on: June 08, 2019, 10:44:28 pm »
I’ve looked over at some of the replies from the past 2 years and I think it’s safe to say that there is definitely demand for a hardware-compatible version.

Despite me saying on the previous page that I have no interest in maintaining this, I’ve come to realize that if I were to leave this behind and leave that audience hanging, it would be a dick move of me.

Rodimus Primal is free to continue on with the MMC5 version and it can be looked at as the “fully translated, definitive, non-abridged version” for people that have emulators compatible with it and want to experience something very close to the DS version in 8-bit style.

Given that at this point I’m probably the only person semi-active in the community that’s most familiar with how FFIII’s text system works, I realize that it would be wrong of me to sit back and be all “well good luck everyone, bye”. I’m going through some ideas in my head, and I think I can come up with something, but I’m not sure of the timeframe. Even though I said I’m not interested in condensing the script, maybe I can instead just do a new translation from scratch with minimalism in mind, and I would still get value from it since I get to work with Japanese text after all (I’m not interested in doing an English—>English project but I’m open to doing a new Japanese—>English project). All I’m saying is that I don’t want to leave you guys hanging.

In the mean time, I’d like to ask, for those of you that have played FFII on GBA and my FFII on NES, how did they compare? Did the FFII:R felt like it left out a lot of details or did it serve its purpose well? I’m asking because, though I don’t want to ignore Bregalad’s compression notes, I think simple DTE compression might be the way to go, but if that route is taken then you can expect the quality to be similar to FFII:R.

That would be awesome if you were able to make an updated script. Like you said, you're probably the ONLY (semi)active person who understands the inner workings of the game. Of course, that would only be the first part of the equation. After looking at the item screen again (its been a while since I played it), I can see WHY you did the changes to the item menu in battle, but it's not that necessary. I can always go in and create the tiles the same way I did with Namingway Edition so that items have the proper room to do what is necessary. It might give you the free space you need to keep the game within the boundaries of the size limitation. As for the script itself, I think using the DS translation as a reference isn't a bad thing, but you might want to go with the same route you did with FFII and keeping it truer to the original Japanese with Square's official names of course.

Speaking of FFII, I think most of us who've played it now consider it the best version of the Famicom original by a long shot. I don't recall running into any bugs last time I ran through it.

With the current state of the project, the only major translation error since the current version is from Vanya. I don't know if any other translation errors were addressed before that in perticular, but I can double check.

tc

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #265 on: June 09, 2019, 02:21:53 am »
New games (or hacks) don't necessarily have to work on an existing cartridge. Mappers were frequently introduced throughout the system's life, after all. It should, however, meet technical standards Nintendo would've permitted if proposed as an official NES release.

Lord Igniz

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #266 on: June 12, 2019, 03:43:22 am »
I’ve looked over at some of the replies from the past 2 years and I think it’s safe to say that there is definitely demand for a hardware-compatible version.

Count me as another one of those requesting a hardware compatible version. Would love to try this translation out, but I don't use emulators, would be amazing to play this on the real thing, many thanks if you decide to go through with this!

Chaos Rush

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #267 on: June 12, 2019, 05:49:21 am »
Just gonna day that I’m officially committing to making a 512kb hardware-compatible FFIII translation. Not sure if I should start a new thread for it or not when it’s ready, but at this point I kinda want people to forget about the MMC5 version so I may end up starting a new thread for it when it’s ready.

I spent a good few hours today working on the new version and I think the final result will be worth it for all. The script won’t be as fluffy as the previous version that’s based heavily off the DS version but the DS script had a lot of extra fluff anyways. The DS version had often times lines that were just “Thanks!” in the Japanese version were fluffed up into, “Thank you so much for graciously helping me with [relevant plot situation], warriors of light!” (slight exaggeration) and unfortunately a lot of that fluff is in the 1mb FF3:R. However, I think fluff in localizations is a good thing given that one has the space to do so, simply because Japanese is a high-context language where context is “read from the air”, while English is a low-context language where context must be clarified. But obviously in limited-space situations, you’d want to minimize the fluff.

With that said, this new script I’m working on is essentially a retranslation from scratch, but obviously I’m also cross-referencing the previous script for context, so it’s going pretty quickly (already about 10% done). Only information communicated in the original Japanese text will be in, and I think I’ll be able to fit it all in a 512kb ROM with my tools and DTE compression. I think I can produce something that still feels like the full complete FF3 script while maintaining hardware compatibility. Stay tuned everyone :)
Because I was part of the Pokémon ROM hacking community for over 10 years, if you find a patch made by someone that’s an addendum to a patch of mine, make sure you credit the person who made the patch as the author, not me :)

Thirteen 1355

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #268 on: June 12, 2019, 08:08:33 am »
Woah that's some great news! Good luck with it! I guess I'll wait for your newest work before playing FF3.

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #269 on: June 12, 2019, 11:17:58 am »
Just gonna day that I’m officially committing to making a 512kb hardware-compatible FFIII translation. Not sure if I should start a new thread for it or not when it’s ready, but at this point I kinda want people to forget about the MMC5 version so I may end up starting a new thread for it when it’s ready.

I spent a good few hours today working on the new version and I think the final result will be worth it for all. The script won’t be as fluffy as the previous version that’s based heavily off the DS version but the DS script had a lot of extra fluff anyways. The DS version had often times lines that were just “Thanks!” in the Japanese version were fluffed up into, “Thank you so much for graciously helping me with [relevant plot situation], warriors of light!” (slight exaggeration) and unfortunately a lot of that fluff is in the 1mb FF3:R. However, I think fluff in localizations is a good thing given that one has the space to do so, simply because Japanese is a high-context language where context is “read from the air”, while English is a low-context language where context must be clarified. But obviously in limited-space situations, you’d want to minimize the fluff.

With that said, this new script I’m working on is essentially a retranslation from scratch, but obviously I’m also cross-referencing the previous script for context, so it’s going pretty quickly (already about 10% done). Only information communicated in the original Japanese text will be in, and I think I’ll be able to fit it all in a 512kb ROM with my tools and DTE compression. I think I can produce something that still feels like the full complete FF3 script while maintaining hardware compatibility. Stay tuned everyone :)

That's awesome news. With that, will there be room for modern item, monster, and town names, and will the B Button Dash you added work?

Chaos Rush

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #270 on: June 12, 2019, 12:49:42 pm »
That's awesome news. With that, will there be room for modern item, monster, and town names, and will the B Button Dash you added work?
Yes, everything regarding terminology will use the official Square Enix names as much as possible. Monster names, town names, spell names, and B Button dash is not an issue.

Now item names on the other hand, there are some difficult limitations to overcome with FFIII’s in-battle sliding item menu, but I’ll try and explore my options regarding that.

I’m not looking at the other unofficial translations at all so really the only names I have to choose from are the official ones.
Because I was part of the Pokémon ROM hacking community for over 10 years, if you find a patch made by someone that’s an addendum to a patch of mine, make sure you credit the person who made the patch as the author, not me :)

John Enigma

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #271 on: June 12, 2019, 12:54:54 pm »
^ Nice.

I shall await for your new retranslation.

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #272 on: June 12, 2019, 01:21:28 pm »
Yes, everything regarding terminology will use the official Square Enix names as much as possible. Monster names, town names, spell names, and B Button dash is not an issue.

Now item names on the other hand, there are some difficult limitations to overcome with FFIII’s in-battle sliding item menu, but I’ll try and explore my options regarding that.

I’m not looking at the other unofficial translations at all so really the only names I have to choose from are the official ones.

I think that's where taking the route that I did with Namingway Edition will work to your benefit. There are some letters that you can use the extra font space for to fit longer item names. You can also abbreviate SOME things if it makes sense to do so.

NeonStreetlight

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #273 on: June 12, 2019, 06:07:12 pm »
Exciting to see this translation coming back to life! It’s funny how I can easily play any of the remakes, yet there’s something about the originals that are more enjoyable to me. So grateful to everyone who dedicates their time and energy to making these romhacks come to life.

Lord Igniz

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #274 on: June 12, 2019, 06:34:20 pm »
Chaos Rush, thank you so much for going ahead and making this project a reality. I thoroughly enjoyed playing the re-translated versions of FFI & FFII on my Famicom, looking forward to finally being able to play the entire original trilogy on my console. Good luck, we're all rooting for you. :thumbsup:

Heaven Piercing Man

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #275 on: June 12, 2019, 09:38:56 pm »
My two cents: it's okay to abbreviate stuff just for the in-battle menu, we already know what the item is from the "item get!" text boxes and the regular item menu.

Chaos Rush

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #276 on: June 13, 2019, 01:37:30 am »
I'm going to make a new thread in the near future so that people won't confuse this new project with the previous one, and to make sure that people are aware that the new version is hardware compatible running on the plain old MMC3 mapper.

But since I don't have enough to show for a new thread yet, I thought I would at least show this.



* A second pass has been taken at the item names, this time using more squish tiles to get the full name in

* Figured out a new way to give the appearance of abbreviation in the in-battle item menu. Unlike the MMC5 version, this does not use a separate list of item names - its reading from the same text data that the main item menu uses! (I'm pretty sure it's impossible to expand the in-battle item menu's width without expanding RAM due to the nature of it, so this is how it'll stay)

* Re-arranged the job menu to incorporate squish tiles. This also fixes that one glitch where the last job wouldn't show all of the info if you had an odd number of jobs. The full job titles have all made it in.

Again, all of these changes will only be in the new version because I am abandoning the old MMC5 version. As mentioned above, I'll start a new thread in the near future.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 04:58:47 am by Chaos Rush »
Because I was part of the Pokémon ROM hacking community for over 10 years, if you find a patch made by someone that’s an addendum to a patch of mine, make sure you credit the person who made the patch as the author, not me :)

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #277 on: June 13, 2019, 09:48:21 am »
I'm going to make a new thread in the near future so that people won't confuse this new project with the previous one, and to make sure that people are aware that the new version is hardware compatible running on the plain old MMC3 mapper.

But since I don't have enough to show for a new thread yet, I thought I would at least show this.



* A second pass has been taken at the item names, this time using more squish tiles to get the full name in

* Figured out a new way to give the appearance of abbreviation in the in-battle item menu. Unlike the MMC5 version, this does not use a separate list of item names - its reading from the same text data that the main item menu uses! (I'm pretty sure it's impossible to expand the in-battle item menu's width without expanding RAM due to the nature of it, so this is how it'll stay)

* Re-arranged the job menu to incorporate squish tiles. This also fixes that one glitch where the last job wouldn't show all of the info if you had an odd number of jobs. The full job titles have all made it in.

Again, all of these changes will only be in the new version because I am abandoning the old MMC5 version. As mentioned above, I'll start a new thread in the near future.

For some items and weapons, don't be afraid to abbreviate some things or to drop the name all together. For example, Leather Shield can be just (Shield) Leather. I had to do that in Namingway. Also, see if you can make use of squish tiles that use two tiles for 3 letters instead of 2 letters on one tile. It will make it look smoother overall.

Special

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #278 on: June 13, 2019, 02:21:18 pm »
Not a fan of those squish tiles, you should definitely go with abbreviations in situations like those, equipment also have little icons associated with them like the shield symbol, you could simple leave "LeatherShield" as "Leather" and the shield icon would make it obvious to the player.

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Re: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES (FFIII: Refurbished)
« Reply #279 on: June 13, 2019, 08:30:17 pm »
So I understand and not confuse whats actually happening with my wishful thinking.

You are going to release the translation again but without the expansion and mapper change?

So it just plays with the original Rom configuration just with a re-translation like how your Final Fantasy II re-translation was done?

Or is it something completely different?