News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules

Author Topic: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin  (Read 5091 times)

John Enigma

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 428
    • View Profile
Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« on: June 05, 2016, 05:34:19 pm »
I don't know if this hasn't been discussed before (probably because nobody has ever thought about this, or because they just don't care) but hasn't anybody thought of separating the Gamecube emulator and the Wii emulator from Dolphin and make them sole console emulators?

I ask this because, in my opinion, (correct me if I'm wrong, but please be nice) Dolphin is open source, and also because the only way Dolphin would be even more great (no bugs, easy for iso hacking, easy to port, easy to keep track of whenever it needs fixing [Github], etc.) than before, would be to actually separate them in DolphinGCT (Nintendo Gamecube/Triforce) and DolphinWii (Nintendo Wii).

Also, I don't know if nobody has noticed but there were other sole Nintendo Gamecube emulators before Dolphin (I think), according to Zophar.net. As for the Wii, there's only Dolphin.

Edit: I wanted to have this discussion in the "Romhacking Discussions" forum, but I wanted to put it here because this is more of (emulator) coding talk, rather than romhacking talk.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 05:40:40 pm by John Enigma »

FAST6191

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3357
    • View Profile
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2016, 05:43:04 pm »
The wii is basically an overclocked gamecube though.
http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Wii_Hardware
http://hitmen.c02.at/files/yagcd/yagcd/frames.html

At some small level you might see, if not priorities shift then coding choices made that might not be as optimised (optimal might be the wrong word), but I can't see it suffering in a major way.

Equally with many of the enhancements going on the distinction becomes even less, and they are slowly working their way towards having a decent debugger as well and I would rather not split it up.

There might be some scope to have a separate UI but I am struggling to see the benefit of splitting the code base. On easy to port then a while back they ran into a speed wall and opted to go for newer hardware rather than continue to bodge it. That is always going to make porting it out an interesting prospect.

John Enigma

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 428
    • View Profile
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2016, 06:01:35 pm »
Equally with many of the enhancements going on the distinction becomes even less, and they are slowly working their way towards having a decent debugger as well and I would rather not split it up.
I did notice that the Dolphin team is on their way of releasing Dolphin 5.0 after four years since their last update.

But again, you see many forks of Dolphin including Ishiiruka's Dolphin fork, Dolphin VR, and Dolphin for WiiU, but yet, there are so many programmers on the Internet that nobody had the idea of separating those consoles from Dolphin.

Seihen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 402
    • View Profile
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2016, 06:58:55 pm »
I guess the biggest question is: what do you perceive is the benefit of splitting out the emulators? And why is it not possible for them to do what you're proposing when both emulators are together in the same project?

John Enigma

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 428
    • View Profile
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2016, 07:07:57 pm »
I guess the biggest question is: what do you perceive is the benefit of splitting out the emulators? And why is it not possible for them to do what you're proposing when both emulators are together in the same project?
Would you call me crazy that is because of a principle of mine? The principle that I prefer to use sole console emulators.

MathUser2929

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1645
    • View Profile
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2016, 07:23:14 pm »
I kinda wish there was seperate emulators as I figure a gamecube emulator would have lower system requirements. My current laptop don't have the specs to run a Wii emulator, But Since gamecube is a generation behind that there's a chance that might run. I just wanna play Twin Snakes.

Seihen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 402
    • View Profile
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2016, 12:42:53 am »
Would you call me crazy that is because of a principle of mine? The principle that I prefer to use sole console emulators.

If there's nothing to be gained from doing it, I'm afraid I just can't see any reason for it, other than the fact that you would effectively lose out on any improvements that could be made for both systems if programmers were working separately.

I kinda wish there was seperate emulators as I figure a gamecube emulator would have lower system requirements. My current laptop don't have the specs to run a Wii emulator, But Since gamecube is a generation behind that there's a chance that might run. I just wanna play Twin Snakes.

Honestly, it's highly unlikely that it simply being separate would make the Gamecube part run any better, unless the emulator isn't optimized at all. When it's emulating the Gamecube, it's not using many (any?) of the other Wii emulation features, so I doubt that would be contributing to the slow down.

John Enigma

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 428
    • View Profile
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2016, 01:26:09 am »
I kinda wish there was seperate emulators as I figure a gamecube emulator would have lower system requirements. My current laptop don't have the specs to run a Wii emulator, But Since gamecube is a generation behind that there's a chance that might run. I just wanna play Twin Snakes.
Yes! Someone who agrees with me.

hanhnn

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
    • View Profile
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2016, 02:03:21 am »
Honestly, it's highly unlikely that it simply being separate would make the Gamecube part run any better, unless the emulator isn't optimized at all. When it's emulating the Gamecube, it's not using many (any?) of the other Wii emulation features, so I doubt that would be contributing to the slow down.
But Dolphin always use Wii requirement or you can't use it properly at all.
No one has the option to choose if their PC can run Gamecube but not Wii.

henke37

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
    • View Profile
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2016, 05:20:15 am »
It's not a magic switch to "make things FASTER, but loose Wii compatibility". As pointed out already, a Wii is mostly just an overclocked GC. Dolphin already switches the emulated clockrates as needed. So in fact, it already pushes the magic "go faster" button.

Gemini

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2026
  • 時を越えよう、そして彼女の元に戻ろう
    • View Profile
    • Apple of Eden
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2016, 07:31:48 am »
If the emulator isn't working fine for you, then it's just your rig to be not suitable for GC or Wii emulation. In most cases a CPU upgrade is the only solution, which worked great for me when I switched to an i5 4590.

I just wanna play Twin Snakes.
IIRC that specific title is a bitch to emulate, which requires quite some intensive emulation for sound or something. Still, it's not like you're missing much - Twin Snakes is a joke.
I am the lord, you all know my name, now. I got it all: cash, money, and fame.

Jorpho

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5060
  • The cat screams with the voice of a man.
    • View Profile
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2016, 07:49:34 pm »
I heard Twin Snakes was supposed to be pretty nice?

Would you call me crazy that is because of a principle of mine? The principle that I prefer to use sole console emulators.
I might, yes.  It sounds like the sort of arbitrary, nonsensical requirement that would look right at home on http://www.clientsfromhell.net .
This signature is an illusion and is a trap devised by Satan. Go ahead dauntlessly! Make rapid progres!

John Enigma

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 428
    • View Profile
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2016, 12:10:26 am »
I heard Twin Snakes was supposed to be pretty nice?
I might, yes.  It sounds like the sort of arbitrary, nonsensical requirement that would look right at home on http://www.clientsfromhell.net .
Then I'm sorry.

KaioShin

  • RHDN Patreon Supporter!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5699
    • View Profile
    • The Romhacking Aerie
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2016, 04:48:43 am »
Would you call me crazy that is because of a principle of mine? The principle that I prefer to use sole console emulators.

Since that principle is completly irrational you'll have to fork it yourself if you want this so badly. Good luck.
All my posts are merely personal opinions and not statements of fact, even if they are not explicitly prefixed by "In my opinion", "IMO", "I believe", or similar modifiers. By reading this disclaimer you agree to reply in spirit of these conditions.

John Enigma

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 428
    • View Profile
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2016, 03:02:58 pm »
Since that principle is completly irrational you'll have to fork it yourself if you want this so badly. Good luck.
I wish I could, but I don't think I have the capacity to that. I would imagine the source code would be huge. And also, I've never used Github before.

But like I said above your comment, I'm sorry. I just wanted to make this discussion with you guys, for the purose of getting it off my chest.

tvtoon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
    • View Profile
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2016, 10:07:02 pm »
There are benefits for some multi-system emulators, like M.A.M.E., to split things up (because the binary keeps growing at an alarming rate). However, there is no gain for splitting Dolphin in two/three emulators, even though I moderately agree with your idea. It is mostly a time waster, unless you want to downgrade some ancient changes (OpenGL version upgrade and the likes), or change environmental stuff. :)

The rule of thumb is, if your computer can handle its GameCube emulation just fine, it will have minor problems with the Wii emulation.

henke37

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
    • View Profile
Re: Separating The Gamecube And The Wii From The Dolphin
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2016, 06:05:09 am »
If the binary is getting large then you split it into several modules and load them on demand. You don't need the code for snes emulation while running a dreamcast game and so on.