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Author Topic: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...  (Read 19744 times)

Bregalad

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2016, 04:27:31 pm »
The problem with Japan -> English/French translators is that they are quite rare, and so we "take what we have", even if they don't have good skills in their own languages.
You got a point.

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but I've played French translations so badly written that I switched to the English one : at least, if they were bad written, my English was not good enough for me to notice :)
Same here.

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stop thinking that one's opinion is better than somebody else's opinion, or that the quality of a translation can be measured objectively as a hard fact.
What makes you believe I ever thought either of those points?

Isao Kronos

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2016, 08:46:44 pm »
i'm sorry for your loss bregalad-kun-sama-chan

Jorpho

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2016, 11:23:02 pm »
I think I already mentioned once that apparently the official Rayearth sub insisted on translating the suffix "-chan" as "-ster".  So, it's not entirely absent from English.

My bugbear is when "Kore wa... [trailing off]" gets translated as "This is...", which is not a way people in English talk, ever.  Something like "What's this?" or even "Huh?" would be more appropriate.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 08:43:31 am by Jorpho »
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Isao Kronos

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2016, 11:36:55 pm »
rub a dub dub thanks for the grub

Rotwang

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2016, 02:34:26 am »

jink640

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2016, 02:38:29 am »
Please tell me that picture is not an official published translation

Rotwang

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2016, 03:00:41 am »
It's apparently from an infamous fansub. I don't know where exactly it came from, some of my friends who are into anime showed it to me.

reyvgm

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2016, 03:43:30 am »
I've never really minded san/sama (as long as it isn't overused), but I've always had an issue with the  "big brother" translation. No one calls their big bother -> Big Brother. You call them by their effin name.

SunGodPortal

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2016, 04:05:44 am »
Here's something I'm curious about and this seems like a good time and thread to ask.

I was watching an episode of Cutie Honey: The Live and when Yuki got kidnapped she was very sympathetic to her captor and kept referring to him as what I guess equates to "criminal-san". Suppose this were a translation where keeping the honorifics wasn't desirable. How would some of you translate this without losing the joke in the process?
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jink640

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2016, 04:08:07 am »
Here's something I'm curious about and this seems like a good time and thread to ask.

I was watching an episode of Cutie Honey: The Live and when Yuki got kidnapped she was very sympathetic to her captor and kept referring to him as what I guess equates to "criminal-san". Suppose this were a translation where keeping the honorifics wasn't desirable. How would some of you translate this without losing the joke in the process?
Probably make her talk in a very polite way. ya know, without calling the kidnapper a piece of shit or whatever.

SunGodPortal

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2016, 05:03:06 am »
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Probably make her talk in a very polite way. ya know, without calling the kidnapper a piece of shit or whatever.

heh Yeah. I guess she could call him "sir" and stuff. LOL

To expand a little, I was thinking of this as applying to a video game translation (instead of where I got the idea, which was a TV show) where you would have plenty of freedom for possible ways that you could deal with this situation: someone being kidnapped, being excited/enthusiastic about it once they knew what was going on and going so far as to begin helping the kidnapper to the point of eventually doing everything for them (even taking him back to your house and having your friend call in the ransom demand when he is unable to continue his role due to feeling sorry for himself). That's what happened in the episode anyway. Good show. :D
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jink640

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2016, 04:50:47 pm »
I just realized while playing Persona 3 that the san sama chan stuff doesn't really bother me unless voice acting is involved. I guess I am getting used to seeing honorifics in English text now  :D

SunGodPortal

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2016, 07:06:39 pm »
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I just realized while playing Persona 3 that the san sama chan stuff doesn't really bother me unless voice acting is involved. I guess I am getting used to seeing honorifics in English text now  :D

I've always played the undub so it's seemed natural to me. Even added a little charm in a few situations.

I only played the stock version for a few minutes. LOL
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Azkadellia

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2016, 07:45:20 pm »
FLCL really got away with honorifics.
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Jorpho

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #54 on: April 29, 2016, 09:49:20 am »
I was watching an episode of Cutie Honey: The Live
They made a series ?  I saw the movie, but gee, this is news.
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SunGodPortal

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2016, 03:23:00 pm »
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They made a series ?  I saw the movie, but gee, this is news.

Yeah. It was from 2007. 26 eps.

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ckrit

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2016, 11:30:44 pm »
Here's something I'm curious about and this seems like a good time and thread to ask.

I was watching an episode of Cutie Honey: The Live and when Yuki got kidnapped she was very sympathetic to her captor and kept referring to him as what I guess equates to "criminal-san". Suppose this were a translation where keeping the honorifics wasn't desirable. How would some of you translate this without losing the joke in the process?

Mr. Criminal

Sounds as silly as in Japanese and you have a perfect translation right there.

Hiei-

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2016, 01:56:25 pm »
I've never really minded san/sama (as long as it isn't overused), but I've always had an issue with the  "big brother" translation. No one calls their big bother -> Big Brother. You call them by their effin name.

Depend, it can be the case with very young kids even in Western countries but for adults, it's clearly never happen or it's very rare.

I don't like to see -san -chan -sama and such kept but the big bro doesn't bug me that much, as it's sometimes hard to put the name, especially if this name is near never used (in a anime for example), as they near always use the family name and so seems completely off.

The problem with Japan -> English/French translators is that they are quite rare, and so we "take what we have", even if they don't have good skills in their own languages. I'm lucky : I worked with 2 translators (Hiei- and Eien Ni Hen), and both of them did a marvellous job (go play Phantasy Star Generations  2 and Psy-O-Blade if you don't believe me), but I've played French translations so badly written that I switched to the English one : at least, if they were bad written, my English was not good enough for me to notice :)

French translations are pretty good since a few years ago. For example, if you try the Earthbound or Mother 3 translations, you can see they feel pretty nice. But I'm okay with you for translations which was made like ten years ago, they were often done from english (and english ones weren't also pretty good 10-15 years ago) and the biggest problem at that time was how to fit all the texts in the game, which were often fixed by cutting some texts, like the old official translations.

The general rule I noticed is "the more texts the game have, the better the translation might be" as bad translations I saw are often for games with a few texts (NES games for example) that everyone can hack/translate. When it's a game with a lot of texts, it's often mean "a big/deeper hack" so the size of the translated texts are rarely a problem, which often give a far better translation. I did some old translations back in the day, before I learnt japanese, and you often had to keep a specific size for the texts, so you were forced to cut some lines and remove some of the dialogue contents (It's also what happened to the official french translation of Secret of Mana. The translation doesn't look that bad for a 20 years one but when you compare it with the japanese version, it feel like 2/3 of the dialogues were cut to fit in the rom, probably to spare some money and avoid using a 32M cartridge, as Secret of Mana is a 24M one).

And, of course, if it's a translation made from english, the english one should be good or else it'll also impact the french translation. But I'm one of those who think it's better to translate a game from a good english translation rather than translating directly from japanese with some limited knowledge of the language.

Japanese to English translators are a lot more common than Japanese to French translators, unfortunately for the french romhack community. I guess I know most people from the french romhack community and I don't think I'm wrong when I say that I saw less than ten Japanese to French translators in the whole community during the last 15 years.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 02:22:21 pm by Hiei- »

BlackDog61

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #58 on: May 21, 2016, 04:27:45 pm »
The general rule I noticed is "the more texts the game have, the better the translation might be" as bad translations I saw are often for games with a few texts (NES games for example) that everyone can hack/translate.

Interesting point.
Ah - wait! Doesn't that explain why good translators are all the harder to find? (They're busy for a long time on a long project.)

Hiei-

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Re: Message for translators: Please no NOT use -san / -sama / etc...
« Reply #59 on: May 21, 2016, 05:12:31 pm »
At least, it's was I noticed about french translations, I wouldn't be able to tell if it's the same about english ones ;)