News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules

Author Topic: Sega embraces game modding.  (Read 36546 times)

Azkadellia

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Sega embraces game modding.
« on: April 20, 2016, 08:44:54 pm »
http://www.sega.co.uk/news/sega-mega-drive-classics-hub
That's right folks. Sega's adding steam workshop (among other things) for PC releases of Mega Drive/Genesis games.
Current Projects: On hold indefinitely.
I do the Twitter thing now: https://twitter.com/MistressSaeko (expect lots of game streaming announcements)
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Chronosplit

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Sega endorses romhacks.
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2016, 09:13:34 pm »
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/04/sega-embraces-legal-console-game-modding-with-new-genesis-pc-emulation-hub/

Not only that, they're welcome on Steam Workshop for their package thingy (though IMO I don't really know why you would buy that).

Synnae

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Re: Sega endorses romhacks.
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2016, 09:19:13 pm »
Wow, this is great news. It makes me happy. :)

Now if only other companies had the same mindset.

Lilinda

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Re: Sega endorses romhacks.
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2016, 09:42:31 pm »
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/04/sega-embraces-legal-console-game-modding-with-new-genesis-pc-emulation-hub/

Not only that, they're welcome on Steam Workshop for their package thingy (though IMO I don't really know why you would buy that).

So you can legally hack shit and release it.
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Spooniest

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2016, 09:47:13 pm »
This impresses me. This makes me like Sega.

I wonder if it's a PR move that is intended to offset the image problems that Sega and other game companies have faced in the post-90's gaming world. I don't know about you, but as I've learned more and more about standard practices in the game industry, my desire to be a part of it in any meaningful way has keeled over and died.

I'm not used to a game company doing something that pleases me so much.
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nesrocks

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2016, 09:52:01 pm »
This is pretty incredible news, thanks SEGA  :woot!:

zonk47

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2016, 10:12:13 pm »
Well that's just the thing to start a bunch of rabid Sega fans trying to take this place (and other hacking sites) down. Some of you may like this, but the reality is that Sega just created a new legal argument against this website.

Not sure how this will play out otherwise, but it's likely very bad news for Kickstarter.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 10:17:16 pm by zonk47 »
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Spooniest

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2016, 10:16:57 pm »
Well that's just the thing to start a bunch of rabid Sega fans trying to take this place (and other hacking sites) down. Some of you may like this, but the reality is that Sega just created a new legal argument against this website.

I don't think that's how the law works.

If Sega wanted to take down hacking sites they could have done it by now much more easily and quickly and efficiently than this. They created a virtual reality style Living Room for goodness sake.

Another Thought: If all 3 Streets of Rage games are on that list, where does that leave the Streets of Rage Remake that Sega C&D'd a while back? Isn't it technically just a repurposing of the assets present in those games?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 10:24:25 pm by Spooniest »
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Chronosplit

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2016, 12:12:55 am »
Well that's just the thing to start a bunch of rabid Sega fans trying to take this place (and other hacking sites) down. Some of you may like this, but the reality is that Sega just created a new legal argument against this website.

Not sure how this will play out otherwise, but it's likely very bad news for Kickstarter.
You forget Sonic Retro slightly; it's a site Sega more than knows exists, and yet it breaks even more rules than we do (for example, their downloads aren't patches).  They really could've nuked that from orbit way faster than RHDN.  And yet this is where Taxman came from, who made the engine behind Sega's best retro ports.

Spooniest

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2016, 12:22:27 am »
And now, watch a video with music appropriately titled, "You Can Do Anything:"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccpY14bXcug

Genesis does what Nintendon't, indeed. How exciting!

Yamero~~!

zonk47

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2016, 12:53:43 am »
Quote
You forget Sonic Retro slightly; it's a site Sega more than knows exists, and yet it breaks even more rules than we do (for example, their downloads aren't patches).  They really could've nuked that from orbit way faster than RHDN.  And yet this is where Taxman came from, who made the engine behind Sega's best retro ports.

But that would be bad PR. There are a lot of people who think ROM hurts the industry. This is of course bullshit, but the companies say that because it's strategic to protecting their intellectual property which some hackers really are of course trying to muscle in on.

First LittleBigPlanet, now Mario Maker have proven that people are perfectly willing to vent their creativity towards community altruism instead of trying to make it in the industry. (of course many of these people are living on state aid but that's another matter). A proliferation of free games that you have to pay a monthly fee to access is sure to consolidate the markets in favor of the big boys. Of course, a lawsuit might put an end to this... could make a very strong case that there is collusion between the major players to squeeze out smaller competitors, although it would indeed be difficult to articulate legally because this is a new kind of protectionist strategy that the laws have not foreseen. If successful, the lawsuit would end protection strategies such as "green lights" and sweetheart deals between online exchange stores (like Steam) and major developers. And of course it would enable you to sell your mods openly, even on the developer's exchange.
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Spooniest

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2016, 01:37:57 am »
But that would be bad PR.

It was already bad PR when they took down the Streets of Rage Remake Project.

I'd honestly be quite surprised if this was a move on their part to try to minimize the modding community or neutralize it in some way. Giving publicity to the thing you want to discredit is not an effective strategy at all, much less officially sanctioning it in any form.

The fact that a game developer as famous as Sega would even speak publicly about mods grants a certain credence to mods' existence, but Sega is making it look very much like they're saying "we are cool with this." To do that, and then turn around and sue the living shit out of everyone who's been doing it up to this point would be absolute PR suicide on an unprecedented level.

Is Sega really in a position financially at this point to weather a storm like that? Somehow, I don't think so.
Yamero~~!

zonk47

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2016, 01:56:34 am »
I never suggested that they would sue fans... that would be pointless. Rather, I think they are going to use fans as a weapon against independent developers, and that these developers should sue both them and Steam before it's too late.

Companies know that high tech sells better than low tech; it also fits in with the "big tent" company style that megacorps subscribe to (Westerners are unaware that unions are still strong in Japan, and that the courts side with them enough that to get rich there you have to go big or go bust). The proliferation of low tech, very cheap games is presenting a dilemma as the big publishers are slowly dying from a thousand cuts. Talk to a factory worker and you'll realize few of them are willing to buy a game anymore without cutting edge graphics... these soft core gamers are a big market now, bigger even than the movie industry, and everyone wants a piece of the pie. Hard core gamers play both these games and lighter, more traditional games (and a segment play RPGs). The question of how to retain share of these smaller market segments has been bedeviling publishers for some time; as we've seen, Nintendo is suffering seriously from competition with license-free competitors operating from Steam and Google Play. The market is getting swamped with decently drawn 2D games thanks to the development of easy to use tools which reduce content creator reliance on career programmers (if you want to see these, check out indieDB). The question has been how to repress this growing freedom and self-assertion among the creative classes (which is likely to result in stronger, more diverse competition and more upward wage pressure for in-house developers) while optimally monetizing the consumer. This appears to be their answer: to create a juxtaposition of profit-seeking content creators against non-profit seeking creators (leading fans) while monetizing the latter all through sustained psychological gambit (community management, appeal to nostalgia, and brute force advertising/endorsement).

In other words, companies are paying attention to what's being done here and at other fan game sites, and they want to take it to a high enough level that it eclipses everything. Killing two birds with one stone.

Hopefully it dies within the first couple months. People will balk at the creative straighjacket of 64 colors and 2 operator FM sound. If they do enhance the emulator beyond this, then it will still beggar belief why people don't just grab something off of indieDB and go nuts making something that might allow them to quit their day job and even garner them a measure of fame. A triumph of advertising over common sense that will doubt bring about an deeper level of cynicism of the American consumer.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 03:25:07 am by zonk47 »
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Spooniest

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2016, 08:17:14 am »
I'm sorry but you lost me.

I don't know if it's just early in the morning or what but this all sounds like a bunch of overthought doomsaying, dude.

I've been obsessively searching and reading every scrap of information I come by, and other forums as well. You are literally the only person I've run into who has these concerns, and may I ask, what is your experience in the legal profession? What do you base all this hypothesizing on?

Because if you aren't a lawyer, then uh...well. I'm not sure I trust your opinion on murky legal matters like this. The fact that you have gone to such mental lengths to create this doomsday scenario for the game modding world out of Sega's announcement seems far more likely to point to a high level of fear of that outcome on your part.

I deem your scenario to be far far to Machiavellian a strategy for an old time player like Sega, who frankly is a little financially down on their luck. I mean, when did the last Sonic game come out? I don't think it was a big seller.

Sega could far more easily recoup such losses by taking down as many romhacking sites featuring patches for their content with a little legal finagling. They don't need to jump through legal hoops the way you are describing, they already had a legal leg to stand on in the first place.

I'm telling you, zonk, they have been holding the sword of Damicles over our heads for years. They have sheathed it.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 08:38:28 am by Spooniest »
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MathUser2929

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2016, 08:30:41 am »
Segas out to get you dudes! He's gonna take down every rom hacker! No Sega game will ever be hacked again!

zonk47

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2016, 09:57:21 am »
Sega has like no legal options at all for going after ROM sites. Most warez sites are hosted in BRICs countries which don't play well with NATO-aligned nations. That's the only reason they are around.

I have no legal qualifications to speak of, but the logic of the situation seems sound to me.

Sega is most definitely trying to "deal with" the indie insurgency. Elsewise they wouldn't have been able to persuade their programmers to write these tools, because nothing threatens a programmer's job security like an easy to use multi-purpose tool. They must have told the programmers that this was a strategic imperative to recapture money from indie competitors in the 2D sector without actually redirecting money and manpower from big budget 3D (cause if you're a programmer then then the jobs are in 3D because that requires loads of different areas of specialization and manpower that 2D doesn't require). I mean, to me it makes perfect business sense. Machiavellian yes, but good business if you're cynical enough about your consumers to think them Philistines who can't appreciate your more intellectually oriented product. That kind of racism is actually quite rampant in Japan, and let us not forget this -is- Sega we're talking about, the company which defined "customer abandonment".

And they are hardly ailing. Rest assured they have plenty of money in offshore accounts somewhere... all the major publishers do. My understanding is they are doing much better now than at any time since the Genesis.

Oligarchies do exist. Companies do poach each others' people after all... it's all a big pool where continuous debates are waged at the coffee tables and in the chatrooms. "What if" scenarios shared between competing officials which develops into tacit insider consensus (we learned this in 2008...  every industry does it). It's not unique and nothing unites oligarchs like the fear of unrestrained, unpredictable competition.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 10:03:11 am by zonk47 »
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Spooniest

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2016, 10:02:22 am »
If Sega wants to stop fan modding, zonk, this is not going to do that, it's going to do the opposite.

I just don't see why that's hard for you to understand.
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zonk47

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2016, 10:26:42 am »
If Sega wants to stop fan modding, zonk, this is not going to do that, it's going to do the opposite.

I just don't see why that's hard for you to understand.

Like I said again and again, their target isn't fan modding. Their target is the Kickstarter projects that the fan mods will distract away from. You're thinking like a person in this scene... there are many gamers who only play games created for their market as a matter of principle. My cousin is one of these... he owns a copy of practically every console RPG ever released over here, but absolutely no imports at all. He won't buy them. Think of all that time that people have spent making games for Mario Maker, and playing games for Mario Maker... as long as Mario Maker remains fresh, then they have something to occupy them continuously and are less likely to think about buying additional games (and when they do, it's more likely Nintendo because Nintendo ads are the first they see). Companies have released editors in the past but they've never been pushed like this: we're gonna see a staggering amount of mods in the next few years on a rate and scale never before seen. The level of conditioning and manipulation is already awesome... the real reason this community is small is because people are afraid. So many people know this site exists and the tools, and they've been wishing for years that they could produce something meaningful with them but they know they risk prosecution by the publishers. (if I had a nickle for the number of single moms living on state aid who say they've experimented with the tools here...). Now they can. We've been willing pawns in their hype gambit.
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Revenant

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2016, 10:50:44 am »
Sega is not even close to the first company to make level-editing functionality available via Steam Workshop or any other means. To the best of my knowledge, it has never had any significant impact on the availability or sales of completely different games by different developers. Neither has Mario Maker, for that matter. It's something designed to appeal directly to people who are already dedicated fans of a given game/series.

Quote
The level of conditioning and manipulation is already awesome... the real reason this community is small is because people are afraid. So many people know this site exists and the tools, and they've been wishing for years that they could produce something meaningful with them but they know they risk prosecution by the publishers. (if I had a nickle for the number of single moms living on state aid who say they've experimented with the tools here...). Now they can. We've been willing pawns in their hype gambit.

So... it's bad because people will want to mod games using official means instead of unofficial tools developed by amateur hobbyists? Who cares?

zonk47

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Re: Sega embraces game modding.
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2016, 11:12:39 am »
I believe it sets a bad precedent to establish a cultural norm of people working for free for people who have no stake in their welfare.
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