News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules

Author Topic: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation  (Read 27360 times)

SunGodPortal

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2016, 07:03:33 pm »
It's def a matter of preference. Personally, I like foreign entertainment that isn't heavily localized because I'm more likely to learn something from it. If I don't know what gyoza or takoyaki is I can look it up and then I've discovered something new. I guess I don't really blame people for just wanting to read about burgers and pizza though. Most people seem to want things that are a little more obvious.
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Seihen

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2016, 08:04:37 pm »
I really think the food examples are bad ones, because it's something that can easily be explained as a simple word you don't know. There's a lot of American food that I've never even heard of, despite having spent the majority of my life in the states! Those are just word replacements -- and Japanese food DOES exist in the West -- so I think it's not really an accurate representation of the benefits of localizing.

More to the point would be something that requires a cultural understanding to get. Idioms are a prime source of this (the popular Japanese idiom meaning "I'm really busy" translates literally to "I'd love to borrow a cat's paw" [猫の手も借りたい]), but monster names and items in RPGs generally have a strong connection with either cultural norms or Japanese wordplays and puns. In that case, by not translating the name, the English-speaking user (often unaware that there's a reference at all) is getting an inferior experience to the Japanese player. For example, I just researched the roots and history behind all of the monsters-of-the-day used in the first series of the Sailor Moon anime for my blog. You could argue either way, but if you don't localize at least some of the names, the Western audience is getting less out of it than the Japanese audience did.

A famous example of this is the Octopus statue in Mother 2 which was replaced with a giant pencil. This was to keep a similar wordplay gag while at the same time making it something the western audience could more easily understand.

The reverse is also true in the old Commodore/NES game "Maniac Mansion." In the very beginning of the game, you need to get into the mansion by finding a key to unlock the front door. Where's the key? Under the doormat, of course! Many Japanese gamers -- where there isn't a running gag on TV or social norm of putting keys under your doormat -- weren't able to get past this screen because the had zero reason to check under the doormat when looking for a key.

So anyway, just figured it worth mentioning that there are more things that need to be considered than just simple word replacements. Cultural norms you grew up with also have a huge impact on your thinking of cause and effect and can greatly color the experience of the player. Just some food for thought!

SunGodPortal

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2016, 08:27:23 pm »
We've already had this conversation before so it's probably best to not let it go much further. :)

A totally literal translation of an entire game is a bad one. A translation that erases all cultural identity from a game is also a bad one. Something in between is good. What more needs to be said?
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Seihen

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2016, 08:41:12 pm »
We've already had this conversation before so it's probably best to not let it go much further. :)

A totally literal translation of an entire game is a bad one. A translation that erases all cultural identity from a game is also a bad one. Something in between is good. What more needs to be said?

Agreed! I suppose I just find it a fascinating topic, and one that's pretty relevant with new, fan-run translations. As mentioned earlier in the thread, fans have their own established history and names for series which were never brought over to the West that may be best to conform to in some cases.

I dunno, just something I find interesting!

SunGodPortal

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2016, 08:57:49 pm »
Quote
I dunno, just something I find interesting!

Me too, I just figured if it went on for too long it might turn into an argument or something. I'm very opinionated. LOL
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gc8tech

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2016, 06:29:49 am »
Just a quick question. I presume you have worked out the txt compression?? What did they use?? Was it LZSS or some form of it?

I'm interested if there are any common compression methods used on the SNES. It would take a long time to message all the people that had done translations and ask.....

Thanks,

D.


DackR

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2016, 12:09:00 am »
Just a quick question. I presume you have worked out the txt compression?? What did they use?? Was it LZSS or some form of it?

I'm interested if there are any common compression methods used on the SNES. It would take a long time to message all the people that had done translations and ask.....

Thanks,

D.
The text is not compressed (at least none that I've found), just encoded strangely (super bomberman 5 is just as bad, lol). The font and various other game graphics are compressed, however. This actually uses a unique combination of LZSS, and RLE in certain cases. I recently learned that Fire Emblem 4 uses the same or very similar compression method. I wish I would have known this before reverse engineering the compression. Luckily, it was fairly easy to reverse because it was mostly straight-forward and clean in execution.

I've been in touch with ddstranslation and he has shared some of his hacking notes and various translations by Honookatana. The notes are quite helpful and should put me many weeks farther ahead than I would have been otherwise. Big thanks to these two for all of their hard work!

I did this today...
Before:

After:
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 12:14:43 am by DackR »

ObiKKa

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2016, 11:22:50 am »
*A surge of excitement has jolted through my arms!* Nice font. I love it! Ooh, is that a subtle suggestion that you could be looking into retrieving the latest unfinished beta of an English translation patch for Fire Emblem 4 on this site here and complete it as you'd know all about the compression used therein?

DackR

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2016, 02:16:27 am »
*A surge of excitement has jolted through my arms!* Nice font. I love it! Ooh, is that a subtle suggestion that you could be looking into retrieving the latest unfinished beta of an English translation patch for Fire Emblem 4 on this site here and complete it as you'd know all about the compression used therein?

The Font is a combination of the partial upper-case english font that the game already contained in the Japanese version-- and the font that ddstranslation was using for their translation. I modified the ddstranslation font to include shadows so the font is a bit more readable. More or less just merged the two.

Unfortunately, I have no motivation to work on Fire Emblem 4 at this point. ;) Maybe someone else will be able to do something with it.

gc8tech

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2016, 07:29:37 am »
Thanks for the info... I'm still working on great strategy expert WWII. I relesed a version that just has the menus.. I'm hoping to one day do the rest. It would be cool if there was a utill that could scan through a file and show up compressed parts etc.

D.

The text is not compressed (at least none that I've found), just encoded strangely (super bomberman 5 is just as bad, lol). The font and various other game graphics are compressed, however. This actually uses a unique combination of LZSS, and RLE in certain cases. I recently learned that Fire Emblem 4 uses the same or very similar compression method. I wish I would have known this before reverse engineering the compression. Luckily, it was fairly easy to reverse because it was mostly straight-forward and clean in execution.

I've been in touch with ddstranslation and he has shared some of his hacking notes and various translations by Honookatana. The notes are quite helpful and should put me many weeks farther ahead than I would have been otherwise. Big thanks to these two for all of their hard work!


DackR

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2016, 11:11:55 am »
Thanks for the info... I'm still working on great strategy expert WWII. I relesed a version that just has the menus.. I'm hoping to one day do the rest. It would be cool if there was a utill that could scan through a file and show up compressed parts etc.

Some games have pointer tables for all of the graphical assets in the game (Marvelous, and Super Bomberman 5 have pointer tables for this purpose). However, generally, there are not many games that use the exact same encoding method for the pointer tables. These can vary in complexity, arrangement, and completeness. There isn't a one-size-fits-all approach besides learning how to read through the disassembly logs using a good debugger.

gc8tech

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2016, 09:10:03 pm »
Well i'm learning Assembly for the 6502 at the moment. I'm hoping that will help. Once i have done that it should be easy to move to 65816.

D.

DackR

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2016, 07:21:57 pm »
Well i'm learning Assembly for the 6502 at the moment. I'm hoping that will help. Once i have done that it should be easy to move to 65816.

D.

Good plan. :)

Here's a quick update:
I've been working some more today on my compression algorithm for Super Famicom Wars.

Here are some stats for the nerds:
Jp Super Famicom Wars Logo--
     Uncompressed: 7.33KB
     Original Compressed : 5.10KB
     New Algorithm: 5.45KB (Not a big deal because I've relocated this already)

ddstranslation's font--
     Uncompressed: 12.0KB
     ddstranslation compression: 6.70KB
     New Algorithm: 2.35KB

Current Font set--
     Uncompressed: 12.0KB
     Old Algorithm: 3.88KB
     New Algorithm: 2.90KB

Jp Font Set--
     Uncompressed: 12.0KB
     Original Compression: 8.09KB
     New Algorithm: 8.62KB

I suspect there are more optimizations to make, but I doubt I'll need to pursue them. I'm pretty happy with where it's at. For now.  >:D

gc8tech

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2016, 06:06:45 am »
If you need anyone to do testing on a real SNES. I can help there :-)

D.

ChronoMoogle

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2016, 05:54:52 pm »
I am super pumped for this! Super Famicom Wars has been a couch multiplayer game for me and some friends which are really into Advance Wars  for years, but the translation will make it much more enjoyable for a bigger range of people :)

Andromeda

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #55 on: March 22, 2016, 08:04:24 pm »
So, uh, any updates on the project? Really looking forward to this.

DackR

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2016, 10:44:14 pm »
Been working on this on-and-off over the last few months. Nothing significant to show at this point.

I've been debugging the VWF routine, but once that's all squared away, things should move a bit more quickly.

Sorry for the lack of updates, I've been distracted with other projects... ;)

papermanzero

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #57 on: April 12, 2016, 09:03:03 am »
Would you share the resources files (text font, psd file etc.) for the title screen?
I would like to use the same font and text for the title screen of the original famicom wars.
Or maybe (if it is not to much work) you can create the text for the original game, based on your resource files?



There is already a hack: http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2521/
However the text doesn't really fit to the perspective and the original logo.

gc8tech

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #58 on: May 06, 2016, 05:32:49 am »
Any updates?? Really looking forward to it :-)

D.

EightBitBeaver

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Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2016, 03:43:35 pm »
New title screen looks great, and I like the look of the font for the in-game menus too. Can't wait to see the finished project :D