News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Current Moderators - DarkSol, KingMike, MathOnNapkins, Azkadellia, Danke

Author Topic: Duck Hunt on LCD may be possible...?  (Read 6166 times)

Jason83

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Duck Hunt on LCD may be possible...?
« on: October 17, 2015, 01:10:39 pm »
I had a thought regarding getting Duck Hunt (and other NES light gun games) to work on modern TVs, and I'm here to see if anyone thinks my idea is feasible.

It would require original hardware, rather than an emulator, and a re-programmable NES cartridge (I've seen these available online that connect via USB to upload ROMs.

please forgive me if this idea has glaring holes or has already been though of, as I have next to zero knowledge on the technicalities of ROM hacking. My idea is to modify the Duck Hunt ROM in such a way that would introduce a delay between when the black screen/white target box are displayed, and when the game reads the output from the light sensor in the Zapper.

My understanding of how the Zapper works is upon pressing the trigger, the game turns the screen all black as a means to check whether the user is pointing the gun at the TV. The game then paints the target white to detect a hit.  Old analog tube TVs had consistent timing between models and the game was hard coded to that timing. Modern sets have a delay imperceptible to the user but way off to the NES.

Given that each model LCD may have a slightly different delay, the other part of my idea would include some sort of homebrew "game" where the user fires the Zapper at the TV repeatedly until the timing sequence is recognized and the delay can be added to the gun game (picture how Guitar Hero calibration is done, except automated due to the precision required and given the fact Duck Hunt doesn't have a manual calibration mode).

This homebrew calibrator could be a white screen that flashes black upon trigger pull, pulled repeatedly until the black screen is detected. Stage two would be another color, say, blue, that then flashes black followed by white, again adjusting the timing between pulls to set the correct interval between screens. The game can then be modified to delay the screen flashes by the determined period of milliseconds.

This was a lot longer of a write up than it was in my head. I hope it makes sense and I really hope someone out there with more knowledge than I have could attempt it.  If you made it this far, thank you!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 01:16:09 pm by Jason83 »

Disch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2814
  • NES Junkie
    • View Profile
Re: Duck Hunt on LCD may be possible...?
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2015, 02:10:49 pm »
Assuming the premise is correct (zapper fails due to latency on LCDs)...

You'd ultimately have to hack Duck Hunt (or whatever zapper game) to add a delay between when the trigger is pulled and when it actually checks for light.  Which is easier said than done.

Though yeah I guess it's do-able.

Jason83

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Duck Hunt on LCD may be possible...?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2015, 02:32:16 pm »
Assuming the premise is correct (zapper fails due to latency on LCDs)...

You'd ultimately have to hack Duck Hunt (or whatever zapper game) to add a delay between when the trigger is pulled and when it actually checks for light.  Which is easier said than done.

Though yeah I guess it's do-able.
Right, that's the concise version of what I was to suggest. I kind of figured it would be difficult, and why no one has done it. I know nothing of how these folks build these custom games, it amazes me!

Chpexo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 727
    • View Profile
.
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2015, 02:41:31 pm »
.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 12:04:34 pm by Chpexo »

SunGodPortal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2927
  • 2 + 2 = 5
    • View Profile
Re: Duck Hunt on LCD may be possible...?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2015, 03:17:50 pm »
Quote
Assuming the premise is correct (zapper fails due to latency on LCDs)...

One of my old CRT's has a flat screen and the zapper doesn't work on it. I don't know what the difference is but I believe the screen being flat has something to do with it as well.
Cigarettes, ice-cream, figurines of the Virgin Mary...

Maeson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 279
    • View Profile
Re: Duck Hunt on LCD may be possible...?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2015, 06:07:14 pm »
...Well, I don't know anything about this, but if it's in fact hard to do (As in "not worth the time"), you could always try to emulate it through a Wii.

There's an emulator that can use the Wiimote as a zapper, and you can play Duck Hunt or any of the zapper games on it. You can even put or hide a crosshair if you want (Although of course there wasn't one originally). Because it will be working through the sensor bar, you don't have to worry about the TV (Sorry if it sounds too obvious)...
I'm off for some time. If for some weird, strange, and important reason, you need to talk to me, just send me a PM and probably I'll read it whenever I come back.

J^P

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: Duck Hunt on LCD may be possible...?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2015, 07:44:36 pm »
One of my old CRT's has a flat screen and the zapper doesn't work on it. I don't know what the difference is but I believe the screen being flat has something to do with it as well.
Weird, my CRT is flat AND widescreen(576i) and it works perfectly with the zapper, and with ps1 guncon too :-\ .

SunGodPortal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2927
  • 2 + 2 = 5
    • View Profile
Re: Duck Hunt on LCD may be possible...?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2015, 08:07:06 pm »
Quote
Weird, my CRT is flat AND widescreen(576i) and it works perfectly with the zapper, and with ps1 guncon too :-\ .

Hmm. Weird indeed. Must just be something different about my or your TV.
Cigarettes, ice-cream, figurines of the Virgin Mary...

tc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
  • Lum Fan
    • View Profile
    • Eon Blog
Re: Duck Hunt on LCD may be possible...?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2015, 05:04:23 am »
Hmm. Weird indeed. Must just be something different about my or your TV.

Does your set accept 480p in any capacity? Then it's not in the purest sense an SDTV.

SunGodPortal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2927
  • 2 + 2 = 5
    • View Profile
Re: Duck Hunt on LCD may be possible...?
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2015, 04:44:40 pm »
Quote
Does your set accept 480p in any capacity? Then it's not in the purest sense an SDTV.

It says SDTV on the front. I don't know the exact specs though. I never liked that TV (it's too heavy and the colors always looked dull) and always use the smaller Magnavox CRT I have.
Cigarettes, ice-cream, figurines of the Virgin Mary...

Zoinkity

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 565
    • View Profile
Re: Duck Hunt on LCD may be possible...?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2015, 09:33:55 am »
Short answer is no, not without different hardware. 

Traditional light guns like the zapper receive light from the screen.  CRTs are like a light bulb in intensity, and the photodiodes aren't sensitive enough to detect weaker light emissions from newer types of screen.  Older light guns cannot be used on newer LCD and plasma screens.  Projection screens may or may not work.

Before anyone asks, the SNES Super Scope won't work either for a more complicated reason.  Not only does it need to detect the emitted light, it also tells what was hit by how long it takes for the CRT's light guns to reach the location it's at.