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Author Topic: Super Mario Maker in the future  (Read 5150 times)

thedarkbanshee

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Super Mario Maker in the future
« on: October 11, 2015, 02:06:29 am »
Super Mario Maker is going to have a HUGE problem in the future. As we all know from the Wii's hay day to the release of the Wii U the online service was great. Once the Wii U came soon came the server shut down. Now just think when that happens to the Wii U in the coming future and the upcoming NX. When the servers go down what will happen to all those user created maps. This could be a SERIOUS Nintendo downfall. Many people are already pissed off by Nintendo as is and have boycotted Nintendo. Shutting down servers with user generated maps with personal creation ideas filled to a deep personal hearts content. People will be attached to their levels. Sure I bet by then a viable Emulator will come along but that can only be valuable for make new creations or recreations. It is obvious there will be no way to save a creation forever. Nintendo will shut down the server when the time comes. No one can help the inevitable even after Nintendo makes an announcement of the date its to happen.

Any ideas?

SunGodPortal

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2015, 02:27:53 am »
Nintendo has surely made some money off of this. The rest, I doubt they care about.

All of the SMM creations being lost will anger and disappoint the fans but in Nintendo's eyes these people will move on and a younger generation will arrive to buy their product so they have no reason to care. They don't have to care about what the fans think because there will always be new fans arriving to throw money at the Nintendo brand just because "Nintendo is cool" and they've found a new way to repackage the same old crap.

EDIT: On second thought, that's a bit cynical and pessimistic. Regardless, Nintendo will do just fine. As I eluded to above, as long as video games are made and sold people will buy Nintendo for the same reason that any well-established brand is allowed to continue beyond their relevance. Name recognition, I guess.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 02:50:39 am by SunGodPortal »
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FAST6191

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2015, 03:57:09 am »
I believe it was the demise of gamespy that stopped the Wii and DS online services rather than direct Nintendo action, though the point still stands and has been seen several times now on a variety of effectively DRMed services.

That said I would probably make a gameplay merit of SMM is probably on par with the literary merit of twitter type comment at this point.

Equally I imagine there will be if not a level editor with all of them then a token level editing take on the matter thrown out like so many New Super Mario Brothers titles are now.

Maeson

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2015, 05:34:40 am »
Waaay too pessimistic for my taste.

Nintendo closing most of the services for DS and Wii wasn't their choice. As FAST6191 said, Gamspey's shutdown was the reason of this happening.

I'll also remember you this happened in, I think May, 2014. The Wii U launched in 2011. That's around 3 years of supporting something free when they could very well have stopped any support to the Wii to try to move people to the Wii U. Who knows how long they will support Wii U after the next console comes (Which hasn't been officially shown, people and media are getting ridiculous with this shit).

Capcom closing the servers for Monster Hunter Tri was in 2013, to give you an idea (And god, I miss those times. Thanks for Riivloution to been able to access online content).

About Super Mario Maker, I don't know. If you ask me; this seems the type of "game/application" that could easily be ported over the NX to continue it's life. It seems to have been pretty well received overall; and there is downloadable content on the way (Free, I think? Like Splatoon) so in theory they don't have any plans to forget SMM after release.

I don't see this thing been forgotten so soon.

There's also a BIG difference between past and now: Nintendo Network. That thing was created to last, unlike the online platforms of the Wii and DS, wich where pretty amateur and limited. That could make games with these capabilities last longer.

I understand perfectly that putting time into something that someday won't be be able to be shared or accessed sucks. I feel the same.

But then again, Why people play MMO's? They will close some day. Or have some kind of reset. Or even their servers can fuck up and lose information. Whatever happens, you end with nothing, as you can't play them offline and the data of all what you have is lost forever. That's the reason why I stopped playing them.

The same goes with games like Little Big Planet or games with editors in them. It's something that's going to happen no matter what (most of the times)... But I guess that the thing is to enjoy them while they last.

While I don't share your tone, I understand what you are saying. But this happens in other places and with many games just to focus on this one like it's the worst thing created by mankind, lol.


...Another option now that I think about it a little more, maybe, could be to create something like in Blast Works for the Wii, where there is a special online place where you can upload and share your things outside the Nintendo Wifi services if I recall correctly, called the Blast Works Depot.

http://www.blastworksdepot.com/games/blastworks/

I don't know if it still works, though. I'll have to try it.

EDIT: Heck, who knows if in the future there will be a "Wii-U-mmfi"? I'm still amazed that people got to work online services for Wii so damn fast. I know it will be much harder but...
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 05:50:48 am by Maeson »
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tigrou

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2015, 09:53:31 am »
As i suggested in some other topic, all we can hope is Wii U being hacked soon.

This would allow to understand how this game work (internal level format), and to dump some levels from Nintendo Servers.

In the future, the game could probably be played on a Wii U emulator (although this is not an easy task, I would not expect such an emulator before the next 5 - 10 years)

Or, if no Wii U emulator, writing a PC/MAC SMM simulator would allow to play those levels on modern hardware. Then we could enjoy these game levels forever.


omega_rugal

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Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2015, 01:22:32 pm »
welcome to the online age...

unless they offer a way to share content without using the internet...
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Maeson

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2015, 02:47:30 pm »
Maybe an update that lets you convert stages into a share-able file that puts into your SD/HDD? You could upload them (maybe on a special place under Nintendo's website for safety) and others could download to their storage devices and let the game check those files to play.

Probably not the best idea (Sounds like what we did time ago with mods for games like HL) , but whatever. At least the game itself wouldn't need online capabilities.


I really really hate how the industry is doing with digital and online matters. It brings great things but, but the drawbacks are too big sometimes.
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Da_GPer

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2015, 05:10:51 am »
As i suggested in some other topic, all we can hope is Wii U being hacked soon.

This would allow to understand how this game work (internal level format), and to dump some levels from Nintendo Servers.

In the future, the game could probably be played on a Wii U emulator (although this is not an easy task, I would not expect such an emulator before the next 5 - 10 years)

Or, if no Wii U emulator, writing a PC/MAC SMM simulator would allow to play those levels on modern hardware. Then we could enjoy these game levels forever.

The Wii U was hacked to play games ripped off the disks. Its called Loadiine.

EDIT: I just found out today that a Wii U emulator just came out and it can play commercial games! Its called Cemu!

« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 05:18:41 am by Da_GPer »

tigrou

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2015, 09:35:35 am »
@ Da_GPer. I didn't know that. This is great news, thanks for the info.

bradzx

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2015, 03:21:55 pm »
Or, if no Wii U emulator, writing a PC/MAC SMM simulator would allow to play those levels on modern hardware. Then we could enjoy these game levels forever.
Actually they already release Wii U emulator.   You can find it on GBATemp.

Edit: Look like I am too late to say that.  Lol.
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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2015, 05:17:40 pm »
I kind of suspect we might get private servers at some point in the future.  Not officially, but by hackers, like the ones for Wii games like Mario Kart Wii.  Then, you'll see multiple 'in game' level databases with various levels, and some will probably outlast the official service.
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tigrou

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2017, 10:35:01 am »
Now that we have a almost fully working WiiU emulator  (called CEMU) I took some time to take a look and understand how levels in Super Mario Maker are stored.

It turns out it a lot simpler than what I thought. A level is simply a list of objects, each having a list of common properties (type, size, position, ...)
This is somehow similar to how SMB3/SMW levels are stored.
Create a level, save it. Make a slight change (eg : add a tile) save it again. Compare each file with a hex editor and you will see what I mean.

I guess this might be a relatively easy task for someone to create a level editor fully compatible with Mario maker levels.
but why ? someone may ask (since Mario maker can already be emulated on PC) ? Well this might be fun, also it mean that you have full control over the thing, possibility to add new features, port it to other platforms etc...

Writing a simulator (that would also allow to play those levels) is something much more complex (near impossible?),  as it would require to emulate very accurately the game physics. Think about "press forward" or "don't move" levels.

MathUser2929

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2017, 10:55:34 am »
http://gamehacking.org/vb/threads/16065-An-alternative-Nintendo-Network-server!

There's a alternative to Nintendo Network in beta now. I imagine it's only a matter of time before they get Mario Maker working too.

Jorpho

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2017, 12:30:41 pm »
As has been noted, the old Nintendo WFC went down due to Gamespy (or rather the owners of Gamespy) getting bought out.

But then again, Nintendo did shut down the old Pokemon Global Link for Pokemon X and Y just a few months ago.  But on the other hand, some online services for Gen V (Black & White) were shut down well before Nintendo WFC went down.  I guess it's just their way of pressuring people to buy the next Pokemon game.  The timed exclusives for the Pokemon games have always struck me as rather nasty anyway.
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tigrou

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2017, 01:21:40 pm »
All we need now is a good debugger in CEMU, in order to understand Mario Maker level format and secrets :D
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 03:05:31 pm by tigrou »

KingMike

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2017, 02:45:11 pm »
As has been noted, the old Nintendo WFC went down due to Gamespy (or rather the owners of Gamespy) getting bought out.

But then again, Nintendo did shut down the old Pokemon Global Link for Pokemon X and Y just a few months ago.  But on the other hand, some online services for Gen V (Black & White) were shut down well before Nintendo WFC went down.  I guess it's just their way of pressuring people to buy the next Pokemon game.  The timed exclusives for the Pokemon games have always struck me as rather nasty anyway.

Fortunately I think a bunch of the DS distribution cards have been dumped somewhat recently, making it possible to get many of the gen 4/5 exclusives with a flashcart and spare capable DS console. (though I don't know if it's a complete set of exclusive Pokemon/items. Those that were distributed directly by Nintendo through WFC though would be lost.)
I think even a couple gen 3 distro carts has been preserved. Need two GBAs and a link cable to obtain?

(I'm guessing the piracy rule doesn't apply when we're talking about two+ generation old DLC for discontinued games?)
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Reiska

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2017, 04:43:38 pm »
They'll probably only shut down SMM's online functionality around the same time they release the inevitable SMM2.

FAST6191

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2017, 05:40:06 pm »

Jorpho

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Re: Super Mario Maker in the future
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2017, 06:56:36 pm »
Fortunately I think a bunch of the DS distribution cards have been dumped somewhat recently, making it possible to get many of the gen 4/5 exclusives with a flashcart and spare capable DS console.
Gee.  I would have thought Nintendo would have kept greater control over those things.

Of course, if one has a flashcart, then one can fairly easily just edit the save data and insert arbitrary Pokemon - but that's not quite the same.
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