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Author Topic: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished  (Read 43867 times)

Chronosplit

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #200 on: July 17, 2016, 12:35:31 pm »
All three of those together would be amazing, but wouldn't space be a major issue?

TheMightyMatchstick

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #201 on: July 17, 2016, 01:27:06 pm »
All three of those together would be amazing, but wouldn't space be a major issue?

I had the same thought when I mentioned updating the FF I + II ROM in my other post.  What limited knowledge of hacking I do have, I know that there are limitations to just how many alterations can be made to the original ROM.  Granted, most of my experience has been with pallete swaps and re-written text, so some of the updates seen in those other FF hacks are way, way beyond me!

Like Chaos Rush said, I'm happy just to have an updated FF II translation, along with a separate ROM for the original game.  It's nice to be able to play FF II on the original NES without having to stumble through the prototype translation, though to be fair, I always found Square's official  translation of the first FF game to be more than adequate.  I also like the older, bolder font used in that game as, as some previous posts have mentioned, I prefer playing these games on a CRT screen.

It's funny, really - Final Fantasy isn't my favorite game series, by any stretch, but I've always had a soft spot for the original NES release.  I have played through I, II, IV (the original US SNES version, as well as the GBA remake) and VI (also the US SNES version) though I never made it past that point.  I tried my hand at the translations of III for the NES and V for the SNES, but lost interest both times.  Maybe I'll give III another go once Chaos Rush finishes his translation... we'll see!

On a side note, I did play through Final Fantasy Legend II and III on the original Game Boy, which probably explains why I like FF II on the NES so much.  If I remember correctly, the Legend games were originally part of the SaGa series, while FF II was directed by the creator of the same series.  All the same, I like the way the leveling system works in all three games, which I guess is what draws me back to them all these years later.

I'm definitely curious to see if anything comes of updating FF I + II, though - I mentioned it as an aside in my previous post, but you guys seem like you already have some great ideas for it.  I'm really impressed by this whole community - everyone seems so dedicated to these projects.  I'm glad I joined :-D

John Enigma

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #202 on: July 17, 2016, 01:36:05 pm »
Including Final Fantasy III in Final Fantasy I+II (NES) would be virtually impossible because of, like you said, limited space.

How? Try to compare it:

  • Final Fantasy (Famicom version and NES version): 148 Kb
  • Final Fantasy II (Famicom version and USA English prototype version): 172 Kb
  • Final Fantasy III (Famicom version): 332 Kb
  • Final Fantasy I*II (Famicom version): 316 Kb

If anyone tries to put Final Fantasy I*II (316 Kb) with Final Fantasy III (332 Kb), you sum the game size up, and it would equal into 648 Kb, almost 1 Mb.

Of course, I could be wrong about all of this.

But like I said before, it would be impossible to include Final Fantasy III in the Final Fantasy I*II compilation. Right?

KingMike

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #203 on: July 17, 2016, 02:11:38 pm »
  • Final Fantasy (Famicom version and NES version): 148 Kb
  • Final Fantasy II (Famicom version and USA English prototype version): 172 Kb
  • Final Fantasy III (Famicom version): 332 Kb
  • Final Fantasy I*II (Famicom version): 316 Kb
Where are you pulling those numbers from? ZIPped ROM size?
Are you suggesting putting zipped ROMs on a cart? Because NES doesn't have room to unzip them.

The ACTUAL (unzipped) sizes are 256KB for FF1 and FF2 (1+2 is 512KB since it uses a mapper that allowed Square to pretty much just glue the FF1 and FF2 ROMs together, with a little modification, which I think someone even made a doc on). (I mean, they needed to add that game select menu SOMEWHERE within the two ROMs)
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John Enigma

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #204 on: July 17, 2016, 02:51:56 pm »
Where are you pulling those numbers from? ZIPped ROM size?
Are you suggesting putting zipped ROMs on a cart? Because NES doesn't have room to unzip them.

The ACTUAL (unzipped) sizes are 256KB for FF1 and FF2 (1+2 is 512KB since it uses a mapper that allowed Square to pretty much just glue the FF1 and FF2 ROMs together, with a little modification, which I think someone even made a doc on). (I mean, they needed to add that game select menu SOMEWHERE within the two ROMs)

Of course, I could be wrong about all of this.
If you must know where I got this info. from, I got it from Emuparadise. And yes, the info. that I provided was from their zipped form, and not their unzipped form like you said.

Disch

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #205 on: July 17, 2016, 03:03:19 pm »
Zipped size isn't really useful.

KingMike is right about the actual PRG sizes.  FF1 and FF2 are at 256K and FF3 is at 512K.

I hear FF3 is really tight on space, and most recent attempts at retranslations have pushed it up to 1MB with a switch to MMC5.

An FF1+2+3 multicart would certainly be possible, but you'd have to switch all three games over to MMC5 and you wouldn't be able to expand any of them -- 1 MB is the limit for MMC5 and that's exactly how much you'd need for all three original games.

I'm not aware of any multicart mappers that allow for more PRG than that which also allow for the necessary 24K + of SRAM you'd need for each game to be able to save.  Most multicarts don't allow for saved games at all -- FF1+2 is like a weird exception to that.


So yes an FF1+2+3 cart is possible (with MMC5), but you're stuck with the original ROM sizes.

But really... what's the point?  Multicarts only really made sense when they were an actual cartridge -- when emulating, who cares if they're separate ROMs?

TheMightyMatchstick

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #206 on: July 17, 2016, 04:10:40 pm »
So yes an FF1+2+3 cart is possible (with MMC5), but you're stuck with the original ROM sizes.

But really... what's the point?  Multicarts only really made sense when they were an actual cartridge -- when emulating, who cares if they're separate ROMs?

I agree.  The idea of an updated FF I + II was only appealing to me because the original FF I + II cartridge was a standard, retail release.  Adding FF III to that cartridge is a whole different beast - not impossible, I'm sure, but a big, big step in another direction.  From my understanding, FF III pretty much maxed-out what the NES could do, in terms of ROM size and cartridge space limitations.  I feel like trying to force all three games together on a single cartridge would cause more harm than good... but then again, It's probably possible, in some form or another!

Now as far as just patching the standard FF I + II ROM with this current Chaos Rush translation, I'm all for that.  Just having both games translated onto a single cartridge is a minor miracle, as far as I'm concerned.  The fact that one of the current versions on this site included the B-button dash from the GBA / PSP re-releases, as well as the ability for both games to save independently of each other, to me, is quite impressive.  How much more work could really be done to that FF I + II cartridge before it starts to become something else entirely?

That's what drew me to this Chaos Rush project, initially - it's more or less a straight translation of FF II, with no bells and whistles.  While I love being able to dash, any major gameplay changes / rebalancing kind of loses me.  Getting through the game faster because I can run faster on the overworld is one thing - getting through the game faster because it's been re-coded to be easier... eh, that I'm not really a fan of.

FF II is a tough, tough game, and this retranslation preserves that.  While I have played the game on the GBA and PSP releases (and enjoyed them!) I still prefer the Famicom original, just for the challenge and classic 8-bit soundtrack.  FF I is a challenging game, too, which, along with their smaller ROM sizes, is what makes them such a good pairing to begin with.  I mean, there's a reason why Square re-released the two games on one cartridge several different times over the years, right? 

While FF III is a great game, it's also a more complicated one, both in terms of gameplay and graphics.  FF I + II seem like games from a similar era, while FF III definitely has more of a "next generation" vibe.  Along with Dragon Warrior IV, it's a standout role-playing game from the end of the NES lifecycle.  I have much respect for Chaos Rush for even attempting a retranslation of it, and I am definitely interested to see where it goes.

Disch

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #207 on: July 17, 2016, 04:53:20 pm »
CANT RESIST! BEGIN NERDINESS:

 :P
<overtechnical>

Adding FF III to that cartridge is a whole different beast - not impossible, I'm sure

You'd need a new board entirely.  The only thing salvageable from the original cartridge would be the plastic case and battery.

Quote
From my understanding, FF III pretty much maxed-out what the NES could do, in terms of ROM size and cartridge space limitations.

Nope.  Not even close.  The NES can address infinite memory if you've got the right hardware on the cartridge side.  See things like the PowerPak:  you can pretty much put the entire NES library on a single cartridge.

</overtechnical>

 :thumbsup:

Forgive my dorkiness

TheMightyMatchstick

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #208 on: July 17, 2016, 05:05:35 pm »
Forgive my dorkiness

You're good  :beer:

SunGodPortal

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #209 on: July 17, 2016, 05:14:20 pm »
Quote
See things like the PowerPak:  you can pretty much put the entire NES library on a single cartridge.

Something I'd like to mention as someone who owns one... The Powerpak cannot currently play the entire library but it can play the vast majority of it, but luckily due to the way it is designed, the ability to play games of this mapper or that mapper are simply a matter of software/mapper file updates. It does in fact have the capability to play possibly anything that could be played on an NES. As I mentioned in another thread just the other day, when I first got my Powerpak it could not properly play Castlevania III. About a year later one of the software updates fixed this. Very nifty device indeed.
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KingMike

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #210 on: July 17, 2016, 05:36:13 pm »
Doesn't PowerPak also not fully support some Famicom mappers?

Remembering on Pat the NES Punk's NES charity marathon, someone donated to watch him play Dragon Buster, and was unsupported.
(understandable since it was just one guy working on it, he had to prioritize. And something like a Namco mapper used only by one relatively obscure game was probably low on that list.)
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SunGodPortal

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #211 on: July 17, 2016, 05:44:47 pm »
Quote
Doesn't PowerPak also not fully support some Famicom mappers?

Remembering on Pat the NES Punk's NES charity marathon, someone donated to watch him play Dragon Buster, and was unsupported.
(understandable since it was just one guy working on it, he had to prioritize. And something like a Namco mapper used only by one relatively obscure game was probably low on that list.)

It only depends on when it was and the last time the software was updated. I haven't checked for updates on my NES Powerpak for a while because I've been spending more time with my SNES and PS1/2 in the recent year.

True, it is only one guy who does the Powerpak, but in the case of the SNES, someone else made an unofficial update to the ware that made it even better than it was before.
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Panzer88

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #212 on: July 29, 2016, 12:34:08 pm »

On a side note, I did play through Final Fantasy Legend II and III on the original Game Boy, which probably explains why I like FF II on the NES so much.  If I remember correctly, the Legend games were originally part of the SaGa series, while FF II was directed by the creator of the same series.  All the same, I like the way the leveling system works in all three games, which I guess is what draws me back to them all these years later.

Yes but it's a bit more complicated. Yes all the legend games were localizations of SaGa games, but Saga 1 , 2 and romancing saga had more in common with ff II.

Saga III was made by a completely different team (Square Osaka) which went on to make FF USA Mystic Quest and Rides no Hihou

Saga III was Square Osaka's first game
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NeonStreetlight

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #213 on: January 08, 2017, 12:04:09 pm »
Is anyone else experience a glitch where max HP resets to 0? It has happened several times to me. It seems to happen when my max HP goes above 255. This is a game-breaking glitch and a shame because this translation is so well done otherwise. Any help is appreciated!

Chaos Rush

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #214 on: January 11, 2017, 02:02:20 pm »
Is anyone else experience a glitch where max HP resets to 0? It has happened several times to me. It seems to happen when my max HP goes above 255. This is a game-breaking glitch and a shame because this translation is so well done otherwise. Any help is appreciated!
Which version number do you have in the readme file that was provided with the patch? That glitch should have been fixed in the latest version.

JulianoFdeS

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #215 on: January 17, 2017, 05:12:16 pm »
Hi! :)

Nice hack and good work! This is the definitive Final Fantasy II for Famicom/Nes! Nice translation and thank you to add the B-Button Dash feature!

I think I found two typos: Inside Pandemonium's Castle, there's a boss called Beelezbub, instead Beelzebub

http://i.imgur.com/p9VjJEC.png

Oh, and the spell "Break" shows a "-" instead of "k".

http://i.imgur.com/NMHpqRi.png

Could you correct it?
Thank you for your attention!
Sorry for any english mistake, not my native language!
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 08:49:22 am by JulianoFdeS »

Bregalad

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #216 on: January 18, 2017, 02:47:41 am »
Quote
Saga III was made by a completely different team (Square Osaka) which went on to make FF USA Mystic Quest
Oh, this explains why both games have so much in common then (especially the main character able to jump).

Quote
But really... what's the point?  Multicarts only really made sense when they were an actual cartridge -- when emulating, who cares if they're separate ROMs?
Definitely.

NeonStreetlight

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #217 on: January 26, 2017, 07:06:41 am »
Which version number do you have in the readme file that was provided with the patch? That glitch should have been fixed in the latest version.

I have version 1.6 but I can download it again and patch a new rom to be sure. I'll let you know how it goes.

January 26, 2017, 10:10:01 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I have version 1.6 but I can download it again and patch a new rom to be sure. I'll let you know how it goes.

Just downloaded 1.6 and patched a new file. Did some testing and it appears the problem is fixed! Thank you, Chaos Rush! Hoping to see FFIII completed on console someday.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 10:10:01 pm by NeonStreetlight »

AwesomeHairo

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #218 on: May 22, 2017, 06:44:06 pm »
Hi. I need help with something. Traditionally, the command options is always something like:

Attack
Magic/Other Ability
Another Ability
Item

Or something like that. Is there any way a noob like me can change it myself for FF II to go from

Attack
Flee to Magic
Magic to Flee
Item

OR do as DoS does and make it

Attack
Magic
Item
Flee

Thanks. Sincerely, an 80% FF Purist.

NeonStreetlight

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Re: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #219 on: July 22, 2018, 02:57:21 pm »
I meant to post this a while ago, but there is a typo upon visiting Josef’s home after the snow cavern.

“Poorf Josef...I’ll look after Nelly. I know that would make him happy.”

I would edit it if I had any idea what I was doing. Is there anyone who could patch it? Obviously not game breaking, but might as well fix it if we know it’s there.