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Author Topic: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished  (Read 62165 times)

Rodimus Primal

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #80 on: December 30, 2015, 07:52:44 am »
I opened up the PSP version last night and all the stats are the same as the GBA version. In fact its just a higher resolution version of the game. I hate the PSP sprites because they add a a cape to Firion and Guy which really don't look right. But it's the same game, same translation.

Thanks for the compliments. I counted the amount of characters per line and I had my wife read it over for spelling and grammar.

Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #81 on: December 31, 2015, 02:37:58 am »
As per Vanya's suggestion, the terms used in the stat screen are now no longer misleading:


And Rodimus Primal's intro script:


And bell icon for Goddess's Bell:


Also thanks to SpiderDave, B-Button dash has been implemented (but not on the world map).

So as of now, all that's left to do is the actual story text. I've finished all the text for gameplay stuff (including battle, shops, inns, etc.); right now you can basically play through the first half of the game (up to when the team meets Leila). Would you guys be interested in trying a playable demo?
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vivify93

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #82 on: December 31, 2015, 03:14:50 am »
Would you be able to utilize the "ti" squish-tile for the ArticWind's name? It's supposed to be Arctic, not Artic.
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Midna

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #83 on: December 31, 2015, 09:13:51 am »
"Spr." as an abbreviation for "Spirit" is kind of vague, I think. It's the kind of word that's short enough that it doesn't really need to be shortened.

vivify93

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #84 on: December 31, 2015, 09:27:53 am »
I actually looked, and it appears that you have enough room to spell out Intellect if you use the "ll" squish tile...



Is there anything preventing you from doing this kind of layout?

Edit - Also, what were you planning on doing with the spell names, again? Squish tiles ala Namingway Edition, abbreviations like Blizd, Thdr, etc., or...? Just curious. :)
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Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #85 on: December 31, 2015, 01:42:00 pm »
Would you be able to utilize the "ti" squish-tile for the ArticWind's name? It's supposed to be Arctic, not Artic.
Done!

"Spr." as an abbreviation for "Spirit" is kind of vague, I think. It's the kind of word that's short enough that it doesn't really need to be shortened.
I originally shortened it so that it's abbreviated like the rest of the stat names. Though I've gone back to no longer abbreviating them since I'm not going to use "Intelligence", but I'm now going with "Intellect".

I actually looked, and it appears that you have enough room to spell out Intellect if you use the "ll" squish tile...



Is there anything preventing you from doing this kind of layout?
Well one issue is that the term used for Intelligence in the Famicom version, ちせい (chisei), specifically means 'intelligence' as opposed to 'intellect'. But then I thought, well since I'm already using the terms Mana and Magic Resistance, which is a deviation from the original Japanese text as even the Japanese version uses misleading terms, I've decided it's not a huge deal and I'm gonna go with Intellect as you suggested.

One thing though, there needs to be a space between the ':' and the values for Accuracy, Evasion, and Magic Resistance. And the reason why is, because the '1' in '1-XX%' can go into double-digits (I believe it can go up to 99-99%). As you can see here, there isn't actually a space byte in the layout:

But it appears anyway if your starting value is still a single digit:


Edit - Also, what were you planning on doing with the spell names, again? Squish tiles ala Namingway Edition, abbreviations like Blizd, Thdr, etc., or...? Just curious. :)
Squishing the full names isn't really an option because I only have four characters to work with (I believe FFIV has five?). While rearranging the magic menu in the inventory screen would be easy as its handled by a text string, it's not that easy for the in-battle menus as those are handled completely differently. As of right now (and probably forever), here is how it is being handled:


========================================================

I am releasing a playable demo. You can play from the beginning all the way to when you recruit Leila into your party. When you have reached this screen:

You have reached the end of the demo. You're free to continue playing through the rest of the game of course, but everyone from that point on will have blank text which would not be very fun, lol.

Patch this to a CLEAN, UNMODIFIED, JAPANESE Final Fantasy II ROM.

Link: https://www.mediafire.com/?4m6dp1p63m8d6ml

I would appreciate it if you guys could look out for typos and other oddities, and if you have any suggestions.
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Rodimus Primal

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #86 on: December 31, 2015, 03:33:39 pm »
I'm not that familiar with ASM but I think one of the suggestions was to alter the battle menu to three names per row for the spells. If it's possible to do that you would have the room you need and could use squish tiles without it looking terrible.

I still think using the original terms for stats is better but they work for what they are intended for regardless.

mz

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #87 on: December 31, 2015, 03:43:14 pm »
one issue is that the term used for Intelligence in the Famicom version, ちせい (chisei), specifically means 'intelligence' as opposed to 'intellect'.
Never expect words to have a 1:1 equivalence between any pair of languages.

This is what the Green Goddess says about this specific word:
Code: [Select]
ちせい【知性】 (chisei)

intellect; intelligence; intellectuality; mentality.
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Vanya

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #88 on: December 31, 2015, 04:13:51 pm »
I'm not that familiar with ASM but I think one of the suggestions was to alter the battle menu to three names per row for the spells. If it's possible to do that you would have the room you need and could use squish tiles without it looking terrible.

I still think using the original terms for stats is better but they work for what they are intended for regardless.

If it could be changed to two rows, that would be even better.
Hell, depending how it's coded it might even be simpler than whatever it is they did originally.

Anywho, it's looking great so far. And I confess that seeing my suggestions in there makes me giggle a little on the inside. :P

Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #89 on: December 31, 2015, 04:20:20 pm »
Never expect words to have a 1:1 equivalence between any pair of languages.

This is what the Green Goddess says about this specific word:
Code: [Select]
ちせい【知性】 (chisei)

intellect; intelligence; intellectuality; mentality.
Thanks for pointing that out! I was relying on the Japanese dictionary app on my phone (called, "imiwa?"). Either way I am going with "Intellect" because it fits and it's not misleading like "Magic Defense" and "Magic" were.

As for the battle stuff, I'm familiar with GBA ASM but not NES ASM. I'm going to look into that stuff after all of the story text is finished.
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KillerBob

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #90 on: December 31, 2015, 09:58:58 pm »
Oh wow, I had no idea. The terminology I'm using is from the GBA version, does anyone know if the PSP/iOS version uses updated, less misleading terminology? I would like to stay as "official" as possible, but this will have to be an exception if the PSP/iOS version uses the same misleading terms as the GBA version. Thanks for pointing that out.
Well, I guess it gets misleading if you take other titles in the series into account. I personally don't see any problem at all with the Japanese original going with the terms Magic Power and Magic Defense, the percentage alone next to it should give you the idea it doesn't work the same in this title. IIRC, other stats in the series named the same works differently between titles. I honestly have difficulty to understand what the major differences are between calling this stat "defense" or "resistance." It's a bit like asking what's the difference between wisdom and intelligence. But I'm not a native English speaker so what do I know... Keep up the good work, looking great! Never played this installment so I'm very much looking forward to try it out when you're done.

vivify93

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #91 on: December 31, 2015, 11:27:27 pm »
Oh, Chaos Rush, I meant to ask you, are you intending to release your text-editor tools after everything is done? They look quite impressive! :)
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Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #92 on: December 31, 2015, 11:53:23 pm »
Well, I guess it gets misleading if you take other titles in the series into account. I personally don't see any problem at all with the Japanese original going with the terms Magic Power and Magic Defense, the percentage alone next to it should give you the idea it doesn't work the same in this title. IIRC, other stats in the series named the same works differently between titles. I honestly have difficulty to understand what the major differences are between calling this stat "defense" or "resistance." It's a bit like asking what's the difference between wisdom and intelligence. But I'm not a native English speaker so what do I know... Keep up the good work, looking great! Never played this installment so I'm very much looking forward to try it out when you're done.
Well the only Final Fantasy games I've played are the GBA versions of I & II, the DS version of III, and the SNES version of IV (w/ Namingway Edition patch). So I don't know how the stat terminology changes in later installments. But what I do know is, I genuinely thought that "Magic" meant something along the lines of "Magic Strength", and that "Magic Defense" actually meant "Magic Defense" (like Special Defense in Pokémon), but as Vanya informed me that's not actually what those stats mean. If it's that huge of a deal for some people, I'll gladly make an "official terms" patch at the end :)


Oh, Chaos Rush, I meant to ask you, are you intending to release your text-editor tools after everything is done? They look quite impressive! :)
Yes! In fact, I've already released one of them, FinalText, as seen here: http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,20478.0.html However it's become pretty obsolete by my newer tool (that I'm calling CastleFynn for now), as FinalText only supports single offset compiling.

Now, the newer tool I've made shown in more recent screenshots (the one where I've mentioned supports dynamic text recompiling), tentatively titled CastleFynn, will be released when this project is (mostly) finished, hoping that other people to use it to make their own translations. I'm not releasing it yet because I'm likely going to make small improvements to it as I work on FFII:R.

As for that lone screenshot of the Dawn of Souls text viewer I posted few days ago, I'm never releasing that because a) I never intended to hack FFI&II GBA (so no text editing implemented), b) the only reason why I made a FFDoS text viewer was so that I can view it's text easier, c) FFDoS's text system is a complete utter mess (every line of text has its own pointer), and because of how convuluted FFIIGBA's text system is my text viewer for it isn't 100% perfect.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 12:00:39 am by Chaos Rush »
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vivify93

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #93 on: January 01, 2016, 03:51:57 am »
So, I have to ask. In the Japanese version and the Prototype, character portraits have black behind them, like so.



It looks like Demi had removed them... The Prototype had these as well, if my memory serves me correctly. Do you have any plans to restore this, Chaos Rush? Just curious. :)
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 04:05:24 am by vivify93 »
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Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #94 on: January 01, 2016, 04:44:03 am »
So, I have to ask. In the Japanese version and the Prototype, character portraits have black behind them, like so.



It looks like Demi had removed them... The Prototype had these as well, if my memory serves me correctly. Do you have any plans to restore this, Chaos Rush? Just curious. :)
I did notice that too, and I would like to restore it, but it would require some ASM work and "fixing" the DTE routine. Here's why:

So the black square behind the portraits, believe it or not, is a freaking text string. And in the Japanese ROM, the text string for what's displayed behind the portraits is:
[3B][3B][3B][3B]
[3B][3B][3B][3B]

Now, in the Demiforce translation (of which I'm using as a base), he achieved DTE by modifying the dakuten/handakuten routine. If you don't know what dakuten and handakuten are, you'll notice that sometimes Japanese characters will have two small dots or a circle on top of them, which modifies the sound of how that character is pronounced (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakuten). FFII's dakuten/handakuten routine has the dakuten/handakuten symbols as a separate tile on top of the normal Japanese character, so it's constructed like this:
[tile]
[tile]

But Demiforce's DTE routine was achieved by modifying the dakuten/handakuten routine, so the tiles are now constructed like this:
[tile][tile]

And this is directly related to the black boxes, because the black box is internally part of the dakuten/handakuten table. So in the Japanese ROM, the byte [3B] would appear in-game as:
[black box]
[black box]

But in Demiforce's ROM, the byte [3B] now appears as:
[black box][black box]
And because that would create problems, Demiforce simply replaced the black box text string with spaces.

So if I were to "restore" the black box text string, it would look like this:


As I mentioned before, the "black box" text string in the Japanese ROM is literally, "[3B][3B][3B][3B][01][3B][3B][3B][3B]" ([01] means new line), while in the Demiforce ROM it's, "[space][01][space]". In order to properly fix it, I would have to find the DTE routine and modify it so that the 3B byte (when used as text) would retain its original tile placement behavior.
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vivify93

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #95 on: January 01, 2016, 05:11:55 am »
Well damn. Thanks for explaining it. It looks like it'd be more trouble that it's worth to restore it.
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KingMike

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #96 on: January 01, 2016, 10:55:07 am »
I think the black box looks worse anyways.
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Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #97 on: January 01, 2016, 04:06:51 pm »
lmao, this sequence is a lot funnier when it's 8-bit. In the GBA version, Firion ends up standing behind the bed, while in the NES version, Firion actually climbs onto the bed lmao:
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Rodimus Primal

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #98 on: January 01, 2016, 05:34:56 pm »
That scene made me scratch my head as to what was going on the first time I played it.

Vanya

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #99 on: January 01, 2016, 10:02:29 pm »
Well the only Final Fantasy games I've played are the GBA versions of I & II, the DS version of III, and the SNES version of IV (w/ Namingway Edition patch). So I don't know how the stat terminology changes in later installments. But what I do know is, I genuinely thought that "Magic" meant something along the lines of "Magic Strength", and that "Magic Defense" actually meant "Magic Defense" (like Special Defense in Pokémon), but as Vanya informed me that's not actually what those stats mean. If it's that huge of a deal for some people, I'll gladly make an "official terms" patch at the end :)

To the best of my knowledge despite the localizations using different terms due to different teams working on the various titles the original Japanese versions of the games are all much more consistent in their terminology. This game being one of the few exceptions because the Magic Power stat was new and the Magic Defense stat was not displayed in the first game.

To help clarify things a little further as far the actual mechanics of the game goes here is a more detailed explanation.

FF1:
No Magic stat to determine MP as the game used spell charges that are gained on a predetermined table for each job.

"Magic Defense" was not displayed anywhere in the game.
Note that there is no official name for this stat in the original game for NES.

Each job had a set starting "Magic Defense" and a set increase per level up.
Fighter/Knight - 15 (+3 per level)
Thief/Ninja - 15 (+2 per level)
Black Belt/Master - 10 (+4 per level for BB; +1 per level for MA) <--- These are probably reversed from their original intention.
Red Mage/Red Wizard - 20 (+2 per level)
White Mage/White Wizard - 20 (+2 per level)
Black Mage/Black Wizard - 20 (+2 per level)

The function of "Magic Defense" was to reduce the chances of status attacks and status spells from enemies from causing their intended status ailments.
However, it worked differently for damage causing spells.
And this is where some confusion may arise for localizers.
Up until this point you could happily localize this stat as "Magic Evade", but when it comes to attack spells rather than prevent damage altogether it makes it harder for them to do what is, for all intents and purposes, a critical hit.
It is almost exactly like the saving throw mechanic in many pen-and-ink RPGs such as Dungeons & Dragons.
If you get hit by a spell that does damage the "saving throw roll" is used to determine if the spell does 2x damage and your "Magic Defense" is added to make it easier to prevent.

FF2:
As I stated before the "Magic" stat in this game determines the player's max MP instead of using a table for set increases.
This is because FF2 does not use a level up system at all.
This is THE ONLY game in the entire series that has a "Magic" stat that determines max MP AFAIK.
Most of the other games either use a spell charge system like FF1, a look up table for fixed values at level up, or have an MP growth algorithm.

"Magic Defense" here works much the same way as it does in FF1 except that it is closer to how the Evade stat works.
The reason for this is that unlike FF1 spells now can have a number of "hits" that can be calculated independently like physical attacks do.
These "hits" can determine damage or what specific effects a given casting will apply to the target.
For damage causing spells the base number of hits will always apply to the target without fail.
In addition to the base hit the casting gets a number of hit rolls based on the caster's Spirit or Intelligence.
The target's "Magic Defense" makes these extra hit rolls more difficult.
All in all it's a more complex way to do what FF1 did.
Again, this is THE ONLY game in the series that uses this naming convention for this stat.
Pretty much every other game separates "Magic Defense" from "Magic Evade".
Like in FF1 as a localizer you would have to come up with a name that is neither magic evasion nor magic defense because depending on the situation it could be either one.

Here are the literal translations from the first 4 games in the series.
KEY - > Earliest Official Source = Original Romanization = Literal Translation

FF1:
> MAGIC = mahou = magic. (spell charges)
> ABSORB = bougyo = defense.
> EVADE % = kaihi ritsu = evasion rate.
> "Magic Defense" not named.

FF2:
> MP = MP = Magic Points. (magic points)
> M.Pwr = maryoku = magical power.
> Absorb = bougyo = defense.
> Evade% = kaihi ritsu = evasion rate.
> Mgc.Res = mahou bougyo = magic defense.

FF3:
> MP = MP = Magic Points. (spell charges)
> Def. = bougyo = defense.
> Evade = kaihi ritsu = evasion rate.
> M. Def. = mahou bougyo = magic defense.
> M. Evade = mahou kaihi ritsu = magic evasion rate.

FF4:
> MP = MP = Magic Points. (magic points)
> Defense = bougyo = defense.
> Defense% = kaihi ritsu = evasion rate.
> Mag Def = mahou bougyo = magic defense.
> Mag Def% = mahou kaihi ritsu = magic evasion rate.

I hope that clears things up some more.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 10:43:27 pm by Vanya »