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Author Topic: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished  (Read 62226 times)

vivify93

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2015, 08:14:50 am »
Yikes, that really sucks. As much as I respect and look up to Demi, it looks like he did a similar thing to Radical Dreamers. I mean, that game is still fantastically written, but it makes its own handful of lines up and changes characterization. For example, Kid occasionally slaps Magil as well as Serge when she's offended by them, but in Demi's translation, she exclusively hits Serge.

Good to see this given the ol' Project II treatment. :thumbsup:
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Bregalad

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2015, 08:51:57 am »
I really hate it when translator make up stuff. Seriously, that's not funny.

Now to the work, it looks like it'll be awesome. I look forward to playing finally a decent version of FF2.

As for the font, the bold one is nicer in my opinion, it clashes less with the fixed width font. If a variable width fond would be used, then thin letter would make sense, but I don't think it's technically possible on the NES.

Midna

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2015, 10:07:21 am »
If anything can be said for the Demiforce translation of FF2, it's that it wasn't pumped full of out-of-place pop culture references like J2e's Final Fantasy 4. Seriously, the entire Dreadnought sequence would probably have at least two Star Wars jokes.

Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2015, 12:38:08 pm »
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Demiforce was a terrible translator(s?), as in the late 90's they probably didn't have access to as many resources as we do today. I can look at the PS1 versions script (that someone typed out on Gamefaqs), the GBA script, and the Prototype ROM script, in addition to handy online Japanese dictionaries including an app on my phone. But from what I can see, at least didn't claim it to be the "definitive FFIV translation" like J2e did with FFIV.
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vivify93

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2015, 01:00:01 pm »
Oh lord, J2e's translation. I always cringe when people say they love it or it's a "literal translation." Get that bullshit out of my face. And Ian Kelley's Big Book of FFIV Lies doesn't help matters.
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Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #65 on: December 29, 2015, 02:36:40 am »
Here's what I worked on today. Left side is Demiforce screenshots, right side is Refurbished screenshots:




As you can see, I have managed to alter the size of menus, which now allows for items to have up to nine letters! Also the stat names nave been changed to what they are in the GBA version, and the stat order has been rearranged to match the Famicom version.

Unfortunately a side effect of expanding the menus is, when you view your inventory and then go back to the party screen, it looks like this:

What's happening is the leftmost and rightmost column of tiles aren't getting refreshed. Idk how I would fix that, but it can't be too hard right? I'm not really versed with NES ASM. (The only reason why I was able to expand the menu sizes was because I simply "guessed" what the determining bytes would be and searched for variations in a hex editor)
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Vanya

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #66 on: December 29, 2015, 02:45:15 am »
Did you document the byte you changed to alter the menu sizes?
That would be really useful info to have for hackers and a really nice side effect of your work.

Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #67 on: December 29, 2015, 02:47:21 am »
Did you document the byte you changed to alter the menu sizes?
That would be really useful info to have for hackers and a really nice side effect of your work.
Yep:
Spoiler:
3B49C - X position of Firion's box
3B49D - X position of Maria's box
3B49E - X position of Guy's box
3B49F - X position of fourth box
3B4A0 - X position of "Item Magic Equip..." box
3B4A1 - X position of Gil box
3B4A2 - X position of "Items" box
3B4A3 - X position of Items menu box
3B4A4 - X position of "Magic"/"Equipment" box
3B4A5 - X position of portrait in Magic/Equipment menu
3B4A6 - X position of HP/MP in Magic/Equipment menu
3B4A7 - X position of Magic list
3B4A8 - X position of Equipment
3B4A9 - X position of Items list in Equipment menu
3B4AA - X position of portrait in Stats screen
3B4AB - X position of stats screen
3B4AC - X position of "You can only save on/the world map."

3B4AD-3B4B4 - ??

3B4B5 - Y position of Firion's box
3B4B6 - Y position of Maria's box
3B4B7 - Y position of Guy's box
3B4B8 - Y position of fourth box
3B4B9 - Y position of "Item Magic Equip..." box
3B4BA - Y position of Gil box
3B4BB - Y position of "Items"
3B4BC - Y position of Items menu

3B4BD-3B4CD - ??

3B4CE - length of Firion's box
3B4CF - length of Maria's box
3B4D0 - length of Guy's box
3B4D1 - length of fourth box
3B4D2 - length of "Item Magic Equip..." box
3B4D3 - length of Gil box
3B4D4 - length of "Items" box
3B4D5 - length of Items menu

3B4EB - vertical length of "Items Magic Equip..." box
3B4EC - vertical length of Gil box
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Vanya

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #68 on: December 29, 2015, 02:50:24 am »
Sweet.
I have some suggestions for the pics you posted that I'll mention later, but out of curiosity right now, why no potion icon?

Rodimus Primal

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #69 on: December 29, 2015, 07:16:45 am »
Looking good so far. I'm surprised no Potion icon either. Also I think the prologue should be centered instead of lining up with the left.

Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #70 on: December 29, 2015, 11:12:28 am »
It doesn't have an icon in the Japanese version so I didn't add it in, but I'll put it back since it apparently matters a lot lol

Also what are your suggestions, Vanya?
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Midna

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #71 on: December 29, 2015, 11:20:10 am »
The intro text looks kinda weird. I understand that with the length of the text preserving the formatting would be kind of difficult, but it's sort of... hard to read when it's all in one gigantic paragraph like that.

vivify93

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #72 on: December 29, 2015, 11:44:33 am »
The abbreviations. They burn me. :'(
All my life I've tried to fight what history has given me.

Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #73 on: December 29, 2015, 11:54:56 am »
The intro text looks kinda weird. I understand that with the length of the text preserving the formatting would be kind of difficult, but it's sort of... hard to read when it's all in one gigantic paragraph like that.
I'll center the lines as Rodimus Primal suggested, but I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with sacrificing two lines for the sake have having paragraphs. I would like for all of the information in the original Japanese intro to be preserved, and I've already had to get rid of "In a world far away, a long peace has ended" as I felt that was info that could already be inferred from the rest of the text.

The abbreviations. They burn me. :'(
Care to be more specific? The item names or the stat names? Do you have any suggestions?

EDIT: centered the intro:


EDIT2:
Also I realized sometimes it just looks better to use abbreviations instead of cramming in as much letters as you can:


And I've given the potion icon for every liquid-based item:
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 01:47:53 pm by Chaos Rush »
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Rodimus Primal

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2015, 05:13:56 pm »
4 or 5 letter abbreviations might not be bad either if you can use them. Accy. works for Accuracy. Intel. works for intelligence, Strg. works for Strength. Since you are already using M.Def. its already at 5 letters so the space is there.

I've been pondering about the prologue at work today. From the looks of it, 28 characters across (including spaces) in 13 rows should be sufficient to get the whole message across, including land far away and peace has ended. I am going to write out a suggestion intro later after work that will fit in all that space, and look good. So don't worry about it for now.

The abbreviation for Goddess Bell just doesn't look right. I don't think it needs the 's but if there was a way to at least fit GoddessBell somehow... Proper abbreviation for it, GDDS, looks strange IMO.

I'm glad you went for the prototype's icons for everything. It makes it more official.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 10:22:05 pm by Rodimus Primal »

Vanya

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #75 on: December 29, 2015, 08:34:49 pm »
I'll center the lines as Rodimus Primal suggested, but I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with sacrificing two lines for the sake have having paragraphs. I would like for all of the information in the original Japanese intro to be preserved, and I've already had to get rid of "In a world far away, a long peace has ended" as I felt that was info that could already be inferred from the rest of the text.
Care to be more specific? The item names or the stat names? Do you have any suggestions?

EDIT: centered the intro:


EDIT2:
Also I realized sometimes it just looks better to use abbreviations instead of cramming in as much letters as you can:


And I've given the potion icon for every liquid-based item:


This addresses all the suggestions I had, so no worries.

PS- Except two things; M. Def. & Magic.

Mechanically speaking, "M. Def." isn't actually magic defense in the same way that "Def." is physical defense.
I always thought it was an oversight to call it "M. Def." in any version that was released as it is actually magic evade or magic resistance.

So I suggest calling it M. Res. instead so that it makes more sense to players.

Similarly the "Magic" stat is potentially misleading.
"Magic" might be interpreted as being like magic power in some of the other games.
What it actually does is help determine your max MP in a similar way as "Stm." affects max HP.

In this case I suggest renaming it "Mana" since that is a term that is more commonly associated with MP.

Of course, I understand if you want to keep it more like the official translations. These are just a thought I've had in my mind over the years studying the mechanics of the game and how to make the functions of these two stats more obvious and consistent with later games.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 08:50:26 pm by Vanya »

vivify93

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #76 on: December 29, 2015, 10:14:19 pm »
Also I realized sometimes it just looks better to use abbreviations instead of cramming in as much letters as you can
This is what I meant, basically. Intlgc or Int., which once looks more friendly to the eye? I also think if you wanted to go the whole route of including the "Godddess's" part of the Goddess's Bell, (i.e. not just naming it G.Bell and calling it a day.) Gdds.Bell would probably be the best happy medium...

Although, you could also take FFIII or FFV's Bell icon and just make it {Bell}Goddess's, if it would fit.
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Rodimus Primal

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #77 on: December 29, 2015, 11:18:00 pm »
This is what I meant, basically. Intlgc or Int., which once looks more friendly to the eye? I also think if you wanted to go the whole route of including the "Godddess's" part of the Goddess's Bell, (i.e. not just naming it G.Bell and calling it a day.) Gdds.Bell would probably be the best happy medium...

Although, you could also take FFIII or FFV's Bell icon and just make it {Bell}Goddess's, if it would fit.

I kind of like that (Bell) icon idea.

So here's my suggestion for the prologue:

 A long-lived peace is over.
The Emperor of Palamecia has
summoned monsters from Hell
   to begin his campaign for
world conquest. A rebel army
arose in the Kingdom of Fynn
to stop the Empire. However,
 Castle Fynn has fallen, and
  the rebels escaped to the
  town of Altair. Four youths
    from Fynn, their parents
   killed by the Empire, flee
     from imperial forces…

Reiska

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #78 on: December 29, 2015, 11:42:42 pm »
It's worth noting that the expanded equipment menu may not play nicely with people playing this hack on flash carts on a CRT due to overscan.

Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #79 on: December 30, 2015, 12:44:14 am »
This addresses all the suggestions I had, so no worries.

PS- Except two things; M. Def. & Magic.

Mechanically speaking, "M. Def." isn't actually magic defense in the same way that "Def." is physical defense.
I always thought it was an oversight to call it "M. Def." in any version that was released as it is actually magic evade or magic resistance.

So I suggest calling it M. Res. instead so that it makes more sense to players.

Similarly the "Magic" stat is potentially misleading.
"Magic" might be interpreted as being like magic power in some of the other games.
What it actually does is help determine your max MP in a similar way as "Stm." affects max HP.

In this case I suggest renaming it "Mana" since that is a term that is more commonly associated with MP.

Of course, I understand if you want to keep it more like the official translations. These are just a thought I've had in my mind over the years studying the mechanics of the game and how to make the functions of these two stats more obvious and consistent with later games.
Oh wow, I had no idea. The terminology I'm using is from the GBA version, does anyone know if the PSP/iOS version uses updated, less misleading terminology? I would like to stay as "official" as possible, but this will have to be an exception if the PSP/iOS version uses the same misleading terms as the GBA version. Thanks for pointing that out.

This is what I meant, basically. Intlgc or Int., which once looks more friendly to the eye? I also think if you wanted to go the whole route of including the "Godddess's" part of the Goddess's Bell, (i.e. not just naming it G.Bell and calling it a day.) Gdds.Bell would probably be the best happy medium...

Although, you could also take FFIII or FFV's Bell icon and just make it {Bell}Goddess's, if it would fit.
I like that bell icon suggestion, I didn't know there was a bell icon. And yes, it should fit, since I have ['s] as a single tile, and I've got nine characters for item names.

I kind of like that (Bell) icon idea.

So here's my suggestion for the prologue:

 A long-lived peace is over.
The Emperor of Palamecia has
summoned monsters from Hell
   to begin his campaign for
world conquest. A rebel army
arose in the Kingdom of Fynn
to stop the Empire. However,
 Castle Fynn has fallen, and
  the rebels escaped to the
  town of Altair. Four youths
    from Fynn, their parents
   killed by the Empire, flee
     from imperial forces…

Oh wow, that's great! I haven't tested it out yet but I'm sure it will be fine. I like how it nicely preserves all of the information within the limited space while having a much stronger opening sentence.

It's worth noting that the expanded equipment menu may not play nicely with people playing this hack on flash carts on a CRT due to overscan.
I frequently test this on a CRT, it looks fine on my end. Even though the very edges of the menu would be cut off, the actual text is still in the safe-zone of the screen. The menu borders being out of the safe-zone isn't a huge deal because the vanilla game already does that in-battle.
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