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Author Topic: Final Fantasy II: Refurbished  (Read 49173 times)

KillerBob

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #100 on: January 02, 2016, 10:48:48 am »
Well the only Final Fantasy games I've played are the GBA versions of I & II, the DS version of III, and the SNES version of IV (w/ Namingway Edition patch). So I don't know how the stat terminology changes in later installments. But what I do know is, I genuinely thought that "Magic" meant something along the lines of "Magic Strength", and that "Magic Defense" actually meant "Magic Defense" (like Special Defense in Pokémon), but as Vanya informed me that's not actually what those stats mean. If it's that huge of a deal for some people, I'll gladly make an "official terms" patch at the end :)
No big deal, not necessary. I definitely understand Vanya's and your viewpoint, I just don't think there was an oversight by Square to name the stats the way they did. The same term まりょく (magical power) is a visible stat in FFV and VI where it indeed acts as a multiplier for magic damage or healing. Magical Power in FFII apparently also affects Magic Defense? Nevermind.

EDIT: If not already done, I suggest fixing the credits "Programed by Nasir" and "Character by Yoshitaka Amano" to say "Programmed by" and "Characters by". I guess just Programmer and Character Design is another option.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 11:27:50 am by KillerBob »

Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #101 on: January 05, 2016, 02:33:09 am »
I have to point this out, now I'm not trying to harp on the Demiforce translation, but still:

Demiforce:

That joke is completely out of place and does not belong. I'm not trying to make it seem like the whole Demiforce translation is like this, because it isn't, as this is the first unnecessary joke I've encountered in the Demiforce script so far (and this is like 70% through the game). But nonetheless it's still out of place.

Refurbished:


Also another thing I'm pointing out is this, now this isn't a bad translation choice, I'm just pointing it out solely so people don't think I'm just taking content out for no reason:
Demiforce:


Refurbished:


The reason why it's shortened is because that is literally all he says in the Japanese version:


If not already done, I suggest fixing the credits "Programed by Nasir" and "Character by Yoshitaka Amano" to say "Programmed by" and "Characters by". I guess just Programmer and Character Design is another option.
I'll look into it at some point. Shouldn't be too hard to fix.

KillerBob

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #102 on: January 08, 2016, 10:31:44 pm »
Looking good!

As you happen to know Japanese, I'd like to ask you a question about some of the names for certain spells. I once heard that most of those "na" spells in the series like Poisona and Esuna are actually intended to be nul, not na. So, those two should be Poisonul and S-nul, short for Status Null. I understand you are using the offical names in this project, I'm just curious if you think this could be the intended meaning behind these names?

Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #103 on: January 08, 2016, 11:31:08 pm »
Looking good!

As you happen to know Japanese, I'd like to ask you a question about some of the names for certain spells. I once heard that most of those "na" spells in the series like Poisona and Esuna are actually intended to be nul, not na. So, those two should be Poisonul and S-nul, short for Status Null. I understand you are using the offical names in this project, I'm just curious if you think this could be the intended meaning behind these names?
Well, my Japanese vocabulary is that of a pre-schooler (since that is when I left Japan), but I do know that if you were to phonetically (not romanize) spell out Esuna's Japanese name, it would be エスナ (the three characters are literally pronounced "Eh" "soo" "na"), and Poisona is similarly ポイゾナ ("Po", "i", "zo", "na"). Now, I'm aware that Japanese often borrows from English, and those spells were most likely intended to be based off of English words (obviously Poisona's Japanese name borrows from the English word Poison, otherwise it would be dokuna/どくな). But you'd think that if they were actually meant to mean "Poison-null" and "Esu-null" (I looked up if esu is a Japanese word and it apparently means "to understand", not sure if that relates to the Esuna we're talking about), the Japanese name would have been ポイゾヌル (Po-i-zo-nu-ru), which would effectively be romanized as Poisonull as opposed to Poisona.

Nonetheless I'm just gonna go with the official names.

On a different note, this is how far I am with the script, at Mysidian Tower:

KillerBob

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #104 on: January 09, 2016, 03:57:49 am »
Well, my Japanese vocabulary is that of a pre-schooler (since that is when I left Japan), but I do know that if you were to phonetically (not romanize) spell out Esuna's Japanese name, it would be エスナ (the three characters are literally pronounced "Eh" "soo" "na"), and Poisona is similarly ポイゾナ ("Po", "i", "zo", "na"). Now, I'm aware that Japanese often borrows from English, and those spells were most likely intended to be based off of English words (obviously Poisona's Japanese name borrows from the English word Poison, otherwise it would be dokuna/どくな). But you'd think that if they were actually meant to mean "Poison-null" and "Esu-null" (I looked up if esu is a Japanese word and it apparently means "to understand", not sure if that relates to the Esuna we're talking about), the Japanese name would have been ポイゾヌル (Po-i-zo-nu-ru), which would effectively be romanized as Poisonull as opposed to Poisona.
I see, I suspected so. Can't recall where the heck I heard or read that info. The web is truly full of faulty info. Anyway, thanks for your detailed explanation!  :) Could as well be made up terms like many others then, to sound foreign and cool.

KingMike

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #105 on: January 09, 2016, 11:23:02 am »
Well, my Japanese vocabulary is that of a pre-schooler (since that is when I left Japan), but I do know that if you were to phonetically (not romanize) spell out Esuna's Japanese name, it would be エスナ (the three characters are literally pronounced "Eh" "soo" "na"), and Poisona is similarly ポイゾナ ("Po", "i", "zo", "na"). Now, I'm aware that Japanese often borrows from English, and those spells were most likely intended to be based off of English words (obviously Poisona's Japanese name borrows from the English word Poison, otherwise it would be dokuna/どくな). But you'd think that if they were actually meant to mean "Poison-null" and "Esu-null" (I looked up if esu is a Japanese word and it apparently means "to understand", not sure if that relates to the Esuna we're talking about), the Japanese name would have been ポイゾヌル (Po-i-zo-nu-ru), which would effectively be romanized as Poisonull as opposed to Poisona.
I don't know about FF2 but in FF1 the names were limited to 4 characters. As the formatting of the menus was dependent on spell names being 4 characters (I think it was possible to have longer names with DTE in the translated FF1 but it would cause formatting errors. Like on the magic screen, the columns wouldn't line up nicely). Example: サイレス/Silence (though early official localizations called it Mute for space limitations)
Though would "null" in katakana be ナル since the pronunciation of "nu" in null is closer to Japanese "na" than "nu"? Though I thought "na" could be a shortened "nai" for "not".
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Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #106 on: January 09, 2016, 12:25:00 pm »
Wanting to hear other people's opinion on something:

So basically I'm on the home stretch of the new English script. I'm trying to use up every byte of space possible - I've revised the DTE table, shifted one of the text bank several rows down (since the key terms/important phrases bank in Refurbished took up less space than the Demiforce ROM) in order to make more room for another text bank, and though I've had to shorten more than a few lines (I knew that I would have to do that at some point anyway, which is why I wrote a dynamic text recompiler), the script is still longer than the Demiforce script (which IMO, is a good thing).

It seems that there are several entries in the three dialogue tables that are unused. Their respective index in the text tables reference unused dialogue in both the Japanese and Demiforce ROMs. For instance, there's one message index where Hilda scolds Gordon about not helping out to save Josef, but I'm pretty sure that line is unused in-game because we don't see Hilda and Gordon interact at all until Hilda is rescued from the Coliseum (there's no interaction between them when you attempt to "rescue" Hilda and Cid from the Dreadnought), and from that point on Hilda and Gordon jump right into reclaiming Castle Fynn - Josef is long forgotten by that point.

Apologies for the long explanation, but my question is, is it worth giving these unused text entries their proper translated text (even if unused) for the sake of completeness, or should I leave them blank to get more free space?

Random unrelated fact: You cannot learn the key term "Palamecia"(Paramekia in the Demiforce script) in the Demiforce translation. I've fixed this, of course. It's kinda important because they key term is used to get Paul to tell you how to get to Castle Palamecia.

Rodimus Primal

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #107 on: January 09, 2016, 01:42:56 pm »
I know it sounds tedious, but I'd translate them anyway. You don't necessarily need to add them in if you're certain they are unused. Perhaps there is an alternate where they do happen. Write down WHICH message goes to what and insert "unused" as the only message displayed for the unused. This way after testing it out, it's easier to report what message is missing.

KillerBob

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #108 on: January 09, 2016, 06:41:02 pm »
I don't know about FF2 but in FF1 the names were limited to 4 characters. As the formatting of the menus was dependent on spell names being 4 characters (I think it was possible to have longer names with DTE in the translated FF1 but it would cause formatting errors. Like on the magic screen, the columns wouldn't line up nicely). Example: サイレス/Silence (though early official localizations called it Mute for space limitations)
Though would "null" in katakana be ナル since the pronunciation of "nu" in null is closer to Japanese "na" than "nu"? Though I thought "na" could be a shortened "nai" for "not".
Yeah, I think the spell names in the JP versions, at least in the first six titles in the series, were limited to four characters. The three column layout works nicely in terms of quick navigation in battle, something many translations unfortunately doesn't take into account when they expand the names. I recall the FFIII (SNES) was horrible due to this where they even removed the two column layout for items. I'd rather have abbreviations of spell and item names than to constantly have to scroll down in menus finding the right spell or item. Quick navigation can be crucial in ATB-mode. But, I guess poor abbreviations can be equally problematic for quick navigation.

Found this info on Kwhazit's page: http://kwhazit.ucoz.net/trans/ff6/spells.html

"The prevailing theory on Japanese sites is that Esuna is short for 永久ステータスを治す (eikyuu SUTEETASU wo naosu), meaning "cures permanent status". The naming is a throwback to FF2, where it could cure only persisting status effects and existed alongside Basuna ('ba' is held to be from バトル中 = "in-battle"), which only cured status effects that wore off after combat. Esuna has since become a more general-purpose status-curing spell, but the name stuck."

Seems to be many theories around...

January 09, 2016, 06:50:24 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Apologies for the long explanation, but my question is, is it worth giving these unused text entries their proper translated text (even if unused) for the sake of completeness, or should I leave them blank to get more free space?
If they are not unused due to a mistake by the developers, I personally think you should take advantage of the free space, especially if you feel it can improve other monologues.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 06:50:24 pm by KillerBob »

KingMike

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #109 on: January 09, 2016, 10:31:11 pm »
I had to check because I thought Esuna was in FF1, but no, it seems Square just renamed the Poisona spell Esuna for the PS1 localization only.
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Panzer88

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #110 on: January 10, 2016, 12:40:41 am »
I vote to translate them anyways, and post the results here.
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Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #111 on: January 11, 2016, 02:44:08 am »
Another question that's been bugging me:

During the Dreadnought sequence, when the Dark Knight appears, Maria specifically says in the Japanese script that "that voice sounded like my brother!", and that's how I have it in my script as well just for the sake of accuracy. In the GBA script, she simply just says, "That voice...!" (or something like that, but no mention of her brother Leon). I like that change because that way the Dark Knight's identity isn't spoiled only halfway through the game. But, I want the content and meaning to stay true to the original Famicom script, not the revised GBA script, yet I actually like the change that the GBA script made in this case.

How do you guys feel about this? I feel like Maria mentioning that the Dark Knight "sounded like her brother" makes it a bit too obvious and ruins the "twist", yet that's actually how it is in the Famicom and PS1 versions. In the GBA and all later versions, you never know for sure who the Dark Knight is until much later in the game which makes for a more effective plot twist. Right now I simply have it the way it is in the Famicom and PS1 versions where she specifically mentions that the Dark Knight's voice sounded like her brother's.

Bregalad

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #112 on: January 11, 2016, 03:28:08 am »
Quote
That joke is completely out of place and does not belong. I'm not trying to make it seem like the whole Demiforce translation is like this, because it isn't, as this is the first unnecessary joke I've encountered in the Demiforce script so far (and this is like 70% through the game). But nonetheless it's still out of place.
I never noticed that joke, but it really wants me to punch someone in the face.

arciks11

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #113 on: January 11, 2016, 07:35:41 am »
I feel like the version that doesn't spell outright who Dark Knight is is a better option. (even if Dark Knight's portrait in GBA does it on its own :D)

Rodimus Primal

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #114 on: January 11, 2016, 07:57:02 am »
Maybe it's my inner Star Wars fan screaming out not to be 100% accurate here and let the twist be revealed later. It's the same reason I say people should watch the prequel trilogy after the original trilogy or the twist in Empire Strikes Back is ruined.

Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #115 on: January 11, 2016, 09:10:14 am »
Maybe it's my inner Star Wars fan screaming out not to be 100% accurate here and let the twist be revealed later. It's the same reason I say people should watch the prequel trilogy after the original trilogy or the twist in Empire Strikes Back is ruined.
The issue here is that in this case the twist is ruined by staying 100% accurate (EDIT: ah nvm, I see that you're advocating for having it the way it is in newer versions)

But nonetheless I think I'll just leave it like that anyways (for now), cause arciks11 has a good point.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 09:53:07 am by Chaos Rush »

Grimoire LD

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #116 on: January 11, 2016, 01:48:25 pm »
Amazing work here Chaos Rush! I thought I did recall that line where Hilda chastises Gordon for failing to help during the Josef scenario was in the PSP Version. I for one would love to see these unused lines resurface, FFII was the first FF to try and give character to characters and they make a valiant first attempt. I'd say restore as much of that as you can.

As for whether Maria to spill the beans immediately after finding the Dark Knight for the first time, I'd say not to. The mystery of the Dark Knight is a fun little subplot. It's a shame that they originally spoiled it the first time you meet him in Japanese though. I would be curious to know if the GBA Japanese did the same thing, or if that's where the "That voice..." derived from in GBA onwards.

I was also curious if this was version was going to fix any of the larger bugs in the game, or is it purely text retranslation?

Chaos Rush

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #117 on: January 11, 2016, 03:00:48 pm »
Amazing work here Chaos Rush! I thought I did recall that line where Hilda chastises Gordon for failing to help during the Josef scenario was in the PSP Version. I for one would love to see these unused lines resurface, FFII was the first FF to try and give character to characters and they make a valiant first attempt. I'd say restore as much of that as you can.

As for whether Maria to spill the beans immediately after finding the Dark Knight for the first time, I'd say not to. The mystery of the Dark Knight is a fun little subplot. It's a shame that they originally spoiled it the first time you meet him in Japanese though. I would be curious to know if the GBA Japanese did the same thing, or if that's where the "That voice..." derived from in GBA onwards.

I was also curious if this was version was going to fix any of the larger bugs in the game, or is it purely text retranslation?

There's going to be two versions. The first one will be a "Purist Edition", which acts as a straight up translation/localization of the original Japanese game (which will have Maria spilling the beans as well, since that was in the original Japanese script and even the English PS1 script).

There will also be a "Non-Ridiculous Patch", which will basically attempt to make the game non-ridiculous. In fact, I was going to ask you guys ideas for the "Non-Ridiculous patch". Here's my ideas for it so far:

* fix Ultima
* increase stat gains to decrease grinding
* maybe buff weapons
* make Castle Fynn have the rebel army theme instead of the "mysterious abandoned place theme" (since for the last third of the game Castle Fynn acts as the new rebel base, so it's only fitting that it should have the rebel theme)
* change Maria's line about the Dark Knight to make his identity more ambiguous (which I have no problem with doing for the "Non-Ridiculous Patch" because the whole point of the patch is to improve the game as a whole)

The goal of the non-ridiculous patch is to make the game actually enjoyable. Any other ideas would be appreciated.

As for my current progress, I have the script done up to the point where Leon joins your party. I'm back in school now so don't have as much time as I did during December, so all I can say is that the script will be finished soon, but I don't know how soon.

vivify93

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #118 on: January 11, 2016, 03:48:41 pm »
Medicines and magic tomes are just too damn costly. I think they could stand to be lowered. Also, the fact that enemies can drop random amounts of gil, some of which are extremely low, doesn't help that. But I think everything you listed aside from "maybe buff weapons" is fine. One thing I really dislike about FFII is that pretty much every weapon palette uses a really ugly dark gray as a "darkest color", but I suppose that's something I can change myself.
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Panzer88

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Re: (WIP) Final Fantasy II: Refurbished
« Reply #119 on: January 11, 2016, 07:15:58 pm »
I vote keep it as it is in the famicom version, as people are playing this version to get the original experience. The gba version is always available to people who want to play it.
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