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Author Topic: Need help with "Drunk" enemies in Patch-a-Bobble  (Read 2391 times)

QuietWhisper

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Need help with "Drunk" enemies in Patch-a-Bobble
« on: June 21, 2015, 06:27:45 am »
Hello all. Rather nervous about asking for help here, as I don't know what kind of community this is.

So I discovered Karl Stenerud's Patch-a-Bobble editor for Bubble Bobble on the arcade. Growing up with Bubble Bobble, this thrilled me, and my overall opinion of the editor is positive.

However, my biggest complaint is that I cannot figure out how to insert the "Drunk" enemy into the editor in normal mode. There is no reason why the "Drunk" enemy should not be able to be inserted, and the apparent inability to insert the "Drunk" enemy frustrates me. I've heard that the programmer Aladar working on the Lost Cave hack had to code a workaround.

Oh, well. Maybe it can't be helped.

Disch

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Re: Need help with "Drunk" enemies in Patch-a-Bobble
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2015, 10:06:46 pm »
Disclaimer:  I don't know about this editor specifically, so I don't know any of this for certain.  The below is more like an educated guess.


Usually when an editor omits something obvious like that it's a limitation of the game engine, and not of the editor.  In-game data is stored in a specific format, and that format might not allow for complete freedom over enemy selection or level design.  The editor has to work within the given format, and therefore it has to follow through on whatever restrictions it imposes.

In this case, maybe the game simply does not make the drunk enemy available in normal mode.  Like maybe there simply is no code/logic for that enemy in the original game.

Jorpho

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Re: Need help with "Drunk" enemies in Patch-a-Bobble
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2015, 12:48:01 am »
The Drunk enemy is very much used in-game.  But indeed, maybe there's some other weird, obscure reason why it can't be inserted into arbitrary levels.
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Trax

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Re: Need help with "Drunk" enemies in Patch-a-Bobble
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2015, 02:53:56 pm »
I'm not sure about arcade ROM structures, but in the NES version, some enemies don't appear in specific levels (Drunk and Invader, for example) because the graphics for all enemies cannot fit in the PPU memory at the same time. Once you reach a certain level group (each group contains 16 levels), then you may see specific enemies appear, but some others may not. You start seeing Drunks at level 49...

I presume the arcade could have a similar limitation...

QuietWhisper

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Re: Need help with "Drunk" enemies in Patch-a-Bobble
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2015, 03:15:35 pm »
I'm not sure about arcade ROM structures, but in the NES version, some enemies don't appear in specific levels (Drunk and Invader, for example) because the graphics for all enemies cannot fit in the PPU memory at the same time. Once you reach a certain level group (each group contains 16 levels), then you may see specific enemies appear, but some others may not. You start seeing Drunks at level 49...

I presume the arcade could have a similar limitation...

Hmm. I've tried the BUBBLED editor and it seems to let you insert Drunks on any level. I may be wrong, though.

Trax

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Re: Need help with "Drunk" enemies in Patch-a-Bobble
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2015, 12:10:08 am »
Well, technically, you CAN insert any enemy anywhere you want, but it doesn't mean the correct graphics will be loaded for that particular level. Anyway, it's also a guess from me, because I'm not familiar with arcade graphics. Yet, it's the most likely explanation, as far as I know...

The PPU is the same for the 3 first groups of 16 levels, i.e., levels 1 to 48, and it doesn't have the Drunk graphics, although the Invader graphics are there. Group 49-64 has Drunk graphics, but you lose Banebou and Pulpul graphics. Group 65-80 goes back to the former set, so no Drunk. Group 81-96 has Drunk, but no Mighta and no Banebou. Group 97-112 has Drunk, Banebou and Pulpul, but no Mighta and no Invader...

QuietWhisper

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Re: Need help with "Drunk" enemies in Patch-a-Bobble
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2015, 12:46:23 am »
Never mind, I found a way; just copy a level where Drunks appear (e.g. Level 50) and paste that level over the level you want them to appear, then edit. This way, I was able to get Drunks to appear on Level 1 as a test. Thanks for the replies.