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Poll

Which control scheme would you prefer for the weak/strong attacks

B for Weak, forward + B for strong
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B for Weak, A for strong (running only available in towns)
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Forward B for weak, B for strong
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B for weak, Y for strong (X used for own menu and X again to change to other characters menu)
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other (please post your suggestion)
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Total Members Voted: 0

Author Topic: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack  (Read 192052 times)

SageOwl

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #300 on: April 05, 2016, 10:19:53 pm »
About the sword Orb:
Only adding a chest to obtain the lvl9 sword would make the game very easy.
The level9 sword has a power of 127, compared to the level8 sword which has 52 and the level9 spear with 56.. it would increase your damage output way too much lol. And I can't just reduce it either because the last boss has an insane amount of defense that only an insane amount of power can get through. It should be possible to instead increase the boost that the mana magic grant to the boy or something so that the sword is obtainable before the final fight, but I personally don't mind not having the level 9 weapons since they don't have a new charge-attack :P
I take it you cannot add objects into the game like a wall and/or one of those magic orbs right? The idea would be take the lighthouse and change it into say a "Mana tower" where the last sword orb would be on top and each level underneath would require a level 8 magic spell from each of the 8 Spirits to pass through.
Basically, you would need to grind each spirit to max before you could get the Mana sword. The lighthouse doesn't have to be the location, but it would give it some use.

theonyxphoenix

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #301 on: April 06, 2016, 08:54:17 am »
I know that going off on the Lvl 9 sword orb tangent may not pan out to anything...but I like the idea of some kind of prerequisites to obtain the orb...or have it as a particularly difficult to obtain secret.  Like hiding it somewhere and/or making it require Lvl 8 magic (like previously mentioned)...or an optional boss (wishful thinking).  I know that addressing the current issues and getting that solidified would take precedence over adding content...but I feel like this has the potential for SoM that Brave New World does for FFIII. 

I haven't seen anyone else attempt this kind of alteration to SoM besides increasing difficulty/changing fonts and am hopeful for what is in store for one of my favorite games of all time.

Ligeia

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #302 on: April 07, 2016, 12:32:31 pm »
I love the idea of a new Mana Tower in the Light House to obtain the level 9 sword orb. I don't know if it's possible to make with the hacking tools available, though. If it's not, maybe the Mana Sword could be obtained by defeating a Mana Fortress boss for example ? You could also edit the Mana Fortress enemies' stats to make it much more difficult, to make the lv9 sword more relevant.

If making a seperate patch for the magic system means having the magic charge time binded to it, then go for it. I'd rather lose a feature than playing with the magic binding system (sorry...).

DragonArk

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #303 on: April 07, 2016, 11:42:46 pm »
Ok I know this will never happen, but it would be awesome if the lighthouse was more like a dungeon where each level you go up, you need to fight a boss in order of appearance, excluding maybe the last few bosses. At the end you get the 9th orb.

Pape

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #304 on: April 11, 2016, 03:35:29 pm »
I am looking forward to the complete version, keep up the good work. In the vanilla version, the Mana Sword doesn't do that much more damage compare to the other weapons. Roughly around 100 HP more damage (around 300 damage per swing at 100% at level 99). It's nothing overpowered or gamebreaking. If you think it is too much, simply increase slightly the HP of all enemies in the fortress. This is coming from a player who always got the ninth orb after Pureland.

If you are planing on inserting the ninth orb. You must look out for this. The reason that I always got the ninth orb after Pureland is because if you get it before finishing Pureland. At the Mana Tree scene, the sword is powered up by the Mana Tree (Quote from the game; "Sword power at maximum!"). This makes the sword go to level 8 regardless of the sword's current level. So, having the level 9 sword makes the game decrease it to the level 8. A forged ninth sword (Mana Sword) will display Energy Orb 9/8 on the weapon screen. If a player gets the ninth orb and does not forged it and finishes Pureland, said player will lose the ninth orb. I just tested this with save states found on the internet. If your planing on inserting the ninth sword orb, it would be better to get it from the Mana Tree event. I doubt it would be much of an hassle to swap 8 to 9. Just need to make the event give you up to level 9 sword instead of level 8. Plus, it fits the story-line of "Sword power at maximum!" part.

Now, one of the reasons I am posting today is I would like to alter this in my own game to make it push up to level 9 sword instead of level 8 sword in this event. It fits perfectly there. I am wondering if you could find the offset that forces the sword's current level to change to level 8? Or maybe a separate patch could be release for those like me who would like to have this in their own game without using the trick or cheat, etc.

The Ruby Armet is an helmet that is unused, would you mind putting it back into the game in a shop. The Ruby Armet is a helmet for the girl and Mandala seems like the likely place where this helmet would belong since it lacks a helmet for the girl while the boy and sprite get the Circlet. The Ruby Armet's stats are in the range of the Circlet. I'm pretty sure that Candy is no longer sold and are replaced by Chocolate in the second part of the game, except for Neko who acts like a convenience shop. It might have been a developer oversight by placing Candy instead of Ruby Armet within the shop menu. If your interested, the offset for Mandala's shop starts at 18FCCE.

I'm also putting this link here since it help me figure some things out and might help others: wiki.superfamicom.org/snes/show/Seiken+Densetsu+2

zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #305 on: April 11, 2016, 07:28:38 pm »
About the lighthouse:
I prefer the idea of a special boss fight or something like that to requiring all spirits to be at level 8 which would just force grinding magic levels, altho I have not experienced with it I think it shouldnt be much of a problem to add a boss inside the lighthouse, the hard part would probably be keeping the doors from taking you back out until the fight is over and maybe keeping the boss from giving you the orb it normally grants when beaten, as well as keep it from reappearing after you first beat him and obtain the mana sword. The room inside the lighthouse is not very big IIRC so I would have to find a boss that can fight in such a place. I dont really know if it would be possible to add the boss to the map data like the game normally does but there should be a way to know the ID of the map you are currently on and from there just spawn the monster when entering and then alter its stats to make it harder. I will probably just start looking into this much later so hopefully I will have a better understanding of how maps and bosses work by then.

Pape:
I was thinking about only making the 9th orb available once pureland is completed so that event would not be a problem, but now that I think about it.. tha means the lighthouse should be locked until then which might be troublesome to do..
Thx to your description of the event and the the text that comes with it and to somedit's text-searching capabilities, I found the address you were looking for in no time: CA/828A, set it to 09 instead of 08, I have not tested the actual event, but the event command is "set event flag 0xC1 to 0x08" and knowing the event flags start at 7ECF00, I tried setting 7ECFC1 to 09 and when I looked into the levels menu I had 8/9 under sword so im almost certain it will work perfectly.
As for the Ruby Armet, I do would like to make it available since it just sits there in perfect working condition, I never looked at shop inventory data but I think it should be rather straighforward to change one of the items for another at a given shop.

Pizzano

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #306 on: April 12, 2016, 02:44:03 pm »
As for the Ruby Armet, I do would like to make it available since it just sits there in perfect working condition, I never looked at shop inventory data but I think it should be rather straighforward to change one of the items for another at a given shop.

I'm excited for this. Sounds cool and fairly straightforward to implement.

Pape

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #307 on: April 13, 2016, 10:58:11 am »
I was thinking about only making the 9th orb available once pureland is completed so that event would not be a problem, but now that I think about it.. tha means the lighthouse should be locked until then which might be troublesome to do..
Thx to your description of the event and the the text that comes with it and to somedit's text-searching capabilities, I found the address you were looking for in no time: CA/828A, set it to 09 instead of 08, I have not tested the actual event, but the event command is "set event flag 0xC1 to 0x08" and knowing the event flags start at 7ECF00, I tried setting 7ECFC1 to 09 and when I looked into the levels menu I had 8/9 under sword so im almost certain it will work perfectly.
As for the Ruby Armet, I do would like to make it available since it just sits there in perfect working condition, I never looked at shop inventory data but I think it should be rather straighforward to change one of the items for another at a given shop.

Thank you for your assistance, but still need your help. I've change the value of CA/828A to 9. Just changing this value doesn't alter the outcome of the event. But here is where I get confused and hit a roadblock. Trying to find the offset 7ECF00 is not contained within the file using HxD. The last offset is 1FFFFF. I know when others have mention these 7E offsets, I couldn't never find them with the HxD editor. Had to use the entire line of byte to find what I needed to change. Is there a place or do you know how to convert 7ECF00 into an offset lower than 1FFFFF? Something like headers and non-headers with the add/subtract 200 byte differences. I've tried googling it, but came up with nothing but colors and wheel converters sadly... Sorry for derailing the topic at hand.

Yeah, I though as much about the lighthouse myself. It's a good idea, but would be hard. That much I know. Maybe you could add two treasure chest there that contains the 8th glove orb and axe orb there?

justin3009

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #308 on: April 13, 2016, 12:51:12 pm »
Anything 7E:0000+ to 7F:FFFF is RAM addresses.  Meaning they're memory when the game is going on, not actual editable ROM addresses.  Of course, if you can trace what happens in RAM you can modify what happens to it in ROM.

Basically anything 7E:0000+ is technically the 'Game Genie' area.
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'

zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #309 on: April 14, 2016, 11:43:55 am »
Pape:

Oops I made an error, set CA/828D to 08 instead. There are 2 event flags (the one I gave you last time 7ECFC1 , and this one 7ECFB2) that are updated one after the other during the event right after "Sword Power At Maximum !", the one I gave you last time is what the orb chests use as the "current-level", Even tho your sword will be 1 level higher there is no point in increasing it too since there is no sword level 9 orb chest anyway so setting CA/828D to 08 should be all thats needed. You can't have a level 0 weapon, the minimum is level 1, so thats why the value 08 is used for level 09.


Pape

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #310 on: April 17, 2016, 10:12:32 am »
zhade:

Thank you for your assistance, it works perfectly. I can't believe that I didn't notice it at first now that you mentioned it, I should stop thinking decimal while hacking. 00 is 01 and 08 is 09. Now, good luck in you own mod/hack zhade, looking forward to it.

justin3009:

Thanks for the information justin300. I learned something new today. Now that you mentioned it, I did used a lot of game genie when I was younger to give myself characters/weapons/armor/etc and other crazy stuff with RAM.

LancerECNM

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #311 on: May 25, 2016, 11:23:29 am »
Just noting that I'm also having issues with the hotkey spells working. I've been playing using the menu instead, which is way safer anyway. I'm playing on the android SNES9x port, it could be related to what emulator players are using.

That said, this hack, particularly blocking and light/heavy attacks, has taken a game I feel is pretty weak and made it waaaaay better. Heck, with just those changes and the AI teleporting dealio, you're basically playing a completely different, very satisfying melee game. To improve the feel of the combat any further, you'd really have to completely rehaul the way magic works in the game (making them things you can dodge and don't stop the gameplay, adding a charge time, etc), which is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond the scope of this or any hack really.

Well... I mean, I guess the AI could attempt to manually block sometimes, but balancing that would be insane, I imagine.

theonyxphoenix

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #312 on: May 26, 2016, 08:30:11 am »
Would this be compatible with this hack:

http://www.fantasyanime.com/mana/somdownloads.htm

Which changes the font and expands the dialogue?

SageOwl

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #313 on: May 26, 2016, 08:53:37 pm »
Would this be compatible with this hack:

http://www.fantasyanime.com/mana/somdownloads.htm

Which changes the font and expands the dialogue?
If that is the variable width font hack then no because that hack requires a header while this one does not... unfortunately.

LarsofArcana

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #314 on: May 26, 2016, 10:53:33 pm »
Alright so I just wanted to say this is a super great patch especially with the increases in difficulty, changes to the stun and hit mechanics etc. Really makes the game a lot more fun and immersive. However, the only problem I really have is the targeting system. it was working completely fine until I reloaded my last save state. now for some weird reason, none of the "all" targeting functions work. I can only single target spells for some reason. If I try to target all my allies with the girls buffs she will only buff the boy and if I try to attack all the enemies with the sprite he will  ATTACK the boy. single targeting works fine though. its super frustrating because i'm already pretty far in the game and now have to probably start over again. is there any way to fix this? better yet, can you just add a rom that doesnt have the targeting system? for multiplayer i can understand it being good but for single player it doesnt really matter to me or break the gameplay. the spell cooldown system is awesome and i feel like it basically remedies all those issues. however, its really frustrating when it breaks on you just because you load a state. I've tried repatching and everything. once again thanks for the great hack, one of the best gameplay improvements i've seen for a snes game

edit: actually figured out its not my save states causing the problem, it only screws up the targeting when i reset my rom and load the actual game. so as long as i just save and load with states, its fine.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 03:38:32 am by LarsofArcana »

theonyxphoenix

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #315 on: June 06, 2016, 08:02:28 am »
While playing through my "Initial Equipment Only" run (ugh, Spikey Tiger)...I had an idea on developing Purim's magic, in particular her Gnome Magic.  I also started looking through the Armor/Weapon FAQ on Gamefaqs that details the inclusion of status element blocking and Stat increases.

Speaking of Defender moreso than any other...what about reducing the defensive power of armor and using Defender to supplement it with more defense.  You could also assign/adjust the armor to compensate for the loss of power. 

For example: You could have an armor set for Purim/Popoi that has reduced defensive capabilities, but increases Int/Wis do help with spell casting.  You could then couple this with Defender to give you multiple options with equipment.  You could also concurrently offer a no-bonus/higher defense set of comparable price.

This would help alleviate the more linear path of consistently increasing defensive armor.  With the possibilities of status defenses, it could also add a new layer to the equipment process.  All the while having Defender cover the gap.

My second thought was that if Speed Up's level was an extension of duration and not power then you could use it to gain an ability similar to the Energizer Alchemy from Secret of Evermore.  Give you a great boost in speed (and weapon charging since IIRC that is tied to Agility), and the duration would last longer the higher the spell level.

EDIT: I have 7/8 of the elementals now on my "Initial Equipment Run" and it is a lot like the hard mode on the mod.  Basically any physical attack will almost kill you outright.  Bosses/enemies that can plow through and hit multiple characters are particularly dangerous.  I have found the Girl's fire magic to be a good supplemental damage source when paired with Sprite.  Defender/Speed Up never really stacked up to the power of plowing through enemies with Stone Sabers.  Perhaps making a balance between Frost Sabre (High % rate, enemies cannot be damage) - Flame Sabre (Mid% rate, enemies take fire/poison damage) - and Stone (Low % Rate - Petrify Enemies)...I'm just not sure where Thunder Sabre fits in to the equation.  Confuse is supposed to prevent enemy spellcasting...that would be beneficial...(which Silence working on some/most bosses would not be overpowered...it is an effect that is only temporary and you normally are better off casting offensive spells, but this on a Thunder Saber would make it worthwhile).

Another thought...could defender be made to prevent status ailments?...especially knockout/unconscious? ><.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 08:00:17 am by theonyxphoenix »

GoldenJoe

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #316 on: July 30, 2016, 05:00:35 am »
Registered just to comment on this hack. It sounds really cool. Not sure what you're already working on, but one of the big pain points of the original for me was grinding weapons and magic. If you can cut that down, it'd be awesome, especially in the late game when leveling up a new elemental takes so long.

zhade

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #317 on: July 31, 2016, 08:49:22 am »
Hi guys, I finaly started making something with my new assembler, altho its not really something new, Its the "mp appearing in the status bar thing", I made it way better than the first time, I guess the way it was done before could have been a cause of slowdowns and weird behaviors (and even worse things on a real snes). It is also way more flexible, I can move the subs easily to make it compatible with other hacks. I think I could make my assembler into some kind of patching program, its actually kind of what it already does really.., but instead of using multiple asm files, all the files could be squeezed into a custom patch file format to make it more simple to use. That would also help with some issue I have with the "showing mp" thing right now which is that Its easier for me and faster for the CPU to have have all the tiles the HUD uses at the same place so it can all be sent to VRAM in 1 block, but because of lack of space where the gfx usually are, I cant add just add my custom graphics in there so instead I copy the normal graphics into an expanded region of the rom and insert my graphics there. That means an ips patch (correct me if Im wrong), would contain the copy of the usual graphics which is copyrighted material..  altho many hacks available here probably have little bits of copyrighted stuff like that I would like to avoid it completely just as an added challenge. A custom patcher could go get these graphics from the ROM to be patched instead like my assembler does. There are probably some patch formats that can handle this easily tho.. right ?

I still have to think about all this many-patches thing, Ill try to make each feature not dependent from others as much as possible as it helps keep it all organized anyway and easy to add to other mod projects I might have in the future (instead of having to start from scratch like im doing now), but I might end up doing a single patch that contains the complete mod and release small stand-alone single-feature patches like this one so that people who would like play "regular secret of mana" with only some slight changes can do it as well as the asm code if other hackers need to modify it a bit for it to work with their project.

I think I should make another that sets the default level of spirits next, that one should not conflict with anything anyway as I dont think it would require any new subroutine so it could be used with the latest version of the improvement Hack

As I was talking about "other mod projects" I might have, there is this one that I think might be fun: A monster battle arena in which 2 players select a monster and face each other or in single player, one could fight waves of enemies and unlock new controllable monsters as they progress. I already have been able to make monsters controllable : and altho the control response time needs improving it works pretty well. The only problem is I don't know if it would be possible to change playable characters like randi into a monster so that monster vs monster fights are possible, the game tends to seperate playble characters form enemies on many things... I could instead make enemies be able to hit (friendly fire) other monsters,  but then the non-player monsters AI would need to be changed so they target one of their own.. At least the 2player versus mode should be possible I guess.. Hit-detection is actually the next thing im gonna be looking at figuring out in the disassembly since I know understand character sprite frames which have a flag that states if the character is hitable during the frame and weapon/attacks frames (monster's non-weapon attacks are actually weapon frames but with an invisible weapon sprite ;)) which have a flag that states if the weapon causes damage on the frame, so hit-detection looks like its just checking when the 2 collides basically.

Ill then probably go look into spells, visual effects as well as actual effect (altho that last one seems rather straighforward) so ill have a better idea of what I could do with them. Then getting to understand ranged attacks could be nice, I might be able to mix the 2 and have spell effects for projectiles in order to make spells that dont target enemies directly or have say the fire saber spell make so your sword slashes then shoot fireballs ;)

Im sorry for the bugs that are present in the last patch, my new assembler is based on the one I used before (which I didnt keep a backup) and wont compile my old files anymore so I can't fix it 0_0 You will have to wait until I rewrite it all but since I want to continue getting to know the game better and working on tools to make it all easier to work with that might take a while.. sorry

DragonArk

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #318 on: August 02, 2016, 01:29:16 am »
I agree with the separate patches, but if it's too much trouble then I'm fine with a 1 patch for all. When you said about the idea of fighting arena style, that's actually a really cool idea. Perhaps 2 people vs 1 monster, all controlled by people? Sounds interesting. I pretty much only visit this site for this thread, so just want to say that I really appreciate all your hard work!

Pizzano

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Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #319 on: August 04, 2016, 02:01:25 pm »
I'm glad to hear that this mod is still being worked on!

Looking forward to checking out whatever you release next!