News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Current Moderators - DarkSol, KingMike, MathOnNapkins, Azkadellia, Danke

Poll

Which control scheme would you prefer for the weak/strong attacks

B for Weak, forward + B for strong
0 (0%)
B for Weak, A for strong (running only available in towns)
0 (0%)
Forward B for weak, B for strong
0 (0%)
B for weak, Y for strong (X used for own menu and X again to change to other characters menu)
0 (0%)
other (please post your suggestion)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 0

Author Topic: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack  (Read 195714 times)

dn

  • IRC Staff
  • Jr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #120 on: August 20, 2015, 12:22:01 am »
Did you figure out the text encryption FuSoYa was using? I was going to start on a retranslation effort years back but ran into a brick wall with that, and ended up abandoning it since I didn't feel like trying to write a new VWF routine. I had most of the menus done, as well as spell names, enemy names, and misc text. Was all text work and no assembly work though.

Hiei-

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 373
    • View Profile
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #121 on: August 20, 2015, 09:10:18 am »
I already have a SoM hack with a working VWF, which will be released soon with the old english script (just need to modify the title screen, to reinsert the english intro text and to do an auto-formatting of the text to take advantage of the VWF, as it actually use the line breaks of the old script, so right now, mostly only the left part of the text box is used).

So the only thing missing to get an english retranslation with a VWF and uncensored stuffs is just a japanese to english translator to translate the japanese script.

And I'm actually working with zhade to have this version (VWF+Uncensored stuffs) compatible with his hack. Basically, he used the expanded part of the rom (16 => 24 MB) to put his routines there and I did the same for my modifications so I started to expand the rom to 32 MB and move all my modifications to the end of the rom, to leave empty the part of the rom he need for his hack.

mziab

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 310
    • View Profile
    • mteam
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #122 on: August 20, 2015, 03:12:27 pm »
For what it's worth, I managed to crack the text encryption in FuSoYa's Secret of Mana VWF edition some time ago. There was also a simple checksum routine, which short-circuited the game if you removed FuSoYa's credit from the SMC header. The encryption itself wasn't anything special, but it took some time to figure out the control codes and make a clean dump. It's one of those games which has the dialogue sandwiched between a ton of event junk. Worse still, some control codes reset the decryption state, while others don't, so there was a huge amount of trial-and-error involved before I got everything right. Lastly, the pointer table was also encrypted in a similar way as the text.

Gi Nattak

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
    • View Profile
    • http://ff6hacking.com/
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #123 on: August 20, 2015, 07:44:12 pm »
A couple wishful ideas I've noticed while playing :D:

- make the character's naming screens have set by default: Randi, Purim, and Popoie. These are the 'official' names that SoM veterans can agree upon, imo it would flesh them out a little bit more just by having them already come with these names by default, like most RPGs. The player could always erase it and name them whatever.

- be able to move in any direction when running.

- increase the screen scrolling to kick in a bit sooner (like 25-50%) when the character moves about. As is, the character (leading) needs to be practically at the edge of the screen in order for it to scroll ahead, often resulting in running head first into a monster and getting hit without even seeing them.

Or, would this restrict the range of movement for the other characters...? If so than I understand why the scrolling is the way it is.

- apparently the targeting feature in the ring menu, aside from showing the name of the monster, is supposed to make the allies attack and target that monster specifically, but it really seems hit or miss to the point where I can't tell if it's in fact working - they seem to ignore me most of the time unless the monster is close to them... If possible to improve on it so when you select a monster to target the allies drop what they're doing and actually run over and attack the hell out of it lol, that'd be cool.

- have entering the ring menu not pause everything for hard mode. Would be nice to have this outside of battle also for the other difficulties, especially for 2-player. I suspect this might be out of the realm of possibility without some serious re-programming, but it's fun to think about lol.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 08:04:12 pm by Gi Nattak »

zhade

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
    • View Profile
    • zhaDe's stuff
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #124 on: August 21, 2015, 01:55:59 am »
@Gi Nattak
The default names is a good idea, I always name them like this anyway and I could use lower-case letters so that it is "Randi" and not "RANDI".

I've already tried to make it so you can move any in direction whille running but ran (no pun intended) into some problems (if you released the D-Pad you would stop). I could probably make it work but it made it very easy to pass-by enemies, in seiken densetsu 3 you can't run while in battle so it's not a problem. Maybe I could lower the running speed but IIRC when you walk you travel at 1pixel each frame and when you run you travel at 2 so I don't know if it would be possible. I could probably make switch between 1 and 2 every frames but it might be noticable and look bad.

You are not the first to ask about the the screen scrolling starting sooner, the problem is that the maps wrap-around so if the screen start to scroll sooner you will be able to see farther than you normally can and will see the other side of the map... Im currently working on making player-controlled character able to be farther apart and found the place in the rom where the screen scrolling is handled. I tried making it sooner but, as I thought, when on the edge of a map you can see the other side sometimes.. Its kind of hard to explain so heres a video that shows what happens Video, In the video the scrolling starts way too soon but It was only to make sure that it will happen, some maps are smaller than others so if I change when it starts scrolling I would have to test all the maps edges..  I could make the screen stop so that you it doesnt wrap-around but in the moon palace the wrap-around thing is used. I think its the only place that this is used tho so if I find I way to know the map you are currently on it might be possible. It would not really restrict the other players that much (at least with how I made it possible to be further apart) if its not too soon video (too soon). Normally the screen starts to scroll when you are at about 1/5 of the screen, 1/3 or 1/4 would make it easier to see where you are going IMO.

About the targetting feature:
I never really used it personally when I played the game as a kid, but I tried it while working on this hack and I found it to be more useful than I thought (still not very usefull tho..). I think it just sets the character's current target, but doesnt "lock" it so if the character is closer to another enemy its target will automatically change. AI characters normally only start to target enemies when they are close tho so you can use the targeting thing to make them attack an enemy that is far and the AI character will walk towards it and attack it even if its far away (altho most of the time he will get stuck on a wall trying to get close to it -_-). Locking the target on your selection could be a good idea but I doubt people would really use it because AI-controlled characters are so bad anyway, you can't really relly on them and make a good strategy by setting their target.. I think I should make them start to attack enemies sooner tho so they don't follow you most of the time and end up attacking the same enemy as you. I guess the developpers made it so they attack only when very close so that they don't end up attacking enemies when you just want to pass-by them, but with how they now teleport to you when they are out of the screen that wouldn't be a problem. I think it would make them look more like players if they would spread out and attack enemies sooner, it could also help them because it seems their main flaw is that they just dont attack enough, putting their AI more towards "attack" seems to make them way better because on "defend" they just stand there and take hits, maybe if they aquired their target sooner they would also react sooner.

I don't think I make the ring menu not pause, The menu uses alot of sprites and I think that you would get major slow-downs if it didn't stop the gameplay. The developers had to remove alot of stuff from the game (since it was first developed to be on the nintendo-sony CD console) to make it run at 60FPS. There is already some slowdowns noticable in some towns where there is alot of NPCs (empire city for example) in this hack because of the additional stuff. The fight against the shadow version of Randi, Purim and Popoie already has some slowdowns in vanilla and its even worse with this hack. I also think they greyed the enemies because the menu icons used so many palettes that they reached the maximum available.

@magicMufflez
I don't know if this hack is currently compatible with FuSoYa's VWF but like Hiei said, he is working on moving his hack to another bank so that it is compatible with this and from what I have seen the VWF is really nice, it makes things alot easier to read. I think the naming would probably still work with his VWF even if I implement something like Regrs did but im not sure, if it makes things too complicated maybe the naming could use the old non-VWF but then in the game when the character would talk his name would use VWF anyway. The uncensored patch also brings back the badass-looking and harder version (acording to Hiei-) of the robot bosses (I think the first one is named killroy ?).

@Hiei-
I guess that by "MB" you mean megaBit (Mb) and not megaByte (MB) right ? Cuz a 32MB som rom would be like more than 10 times larger than the originial XD. Thx for moving your stuff to another bank btw, It would have been a pain to move mine because of my poorly designed homemade assembler  ::)

I got the "players can be farther apart"  feature working now : Video. The players can go all the way to the edge of the screen. If an AI character follows a player that is close to the edge he might move towards an enemy that is not in the screen and end up being teleported back to the player but I think that wont happen very often and its still better than blocking players at 1/5 of the screen. When players are close to the edge and enter the ring-menu the menu has some icons missing (out of the screen) but the selected icon is always in the screen altho it can be behind the textbox but its not really a problem because the textbox is semi-transparent. I made it so you can't go down as much as the other direction so you don't end up behing the status bars that would have make it hard to see where you are. I also fixed the bugs with the AI teleporting when they were still in the sceen in the moon palace wrap-around room and shadow palace (a room is so close to the edge that the sceen coordinate goes below zero and messed with how I calculated the AI characters distance). The bug with the Pureland event is back tho since it works with the scrolling thing lol, I still have to find a way to fix that (again).

vivify93

  • Submission Reviewer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1089
  • Guardian of Mystery
    • View Profile
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #125 on: August 21, 2015, 02:33:28 am »
make the character's naming screens have set by default: Randi, Purim, and Popoie. These are the 'official' names that SoM veterans can agree upon
The iOS/Android version actually names them Randi, Primm, and Popoi. :)
All my life I've tried to fight what history has given me.

zhade

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
    • View Profile
    • zhaDe's stuff
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #126 on: August 21, 2015, 02:41:44 am »
personally, I prefer Primm to Purim but Popoi and Popoie sounds the same to me (I don't really know how Popoie is suposed to be  pronounced in english tho, I kind of think of it like it would be pronounced in french which sounds like "Poh-pwha". I guess I would keep Purim tho since its the "official" english name (at least in the snes version).

Edit:
I managed to fix the pureland scrolling bug, it scrolls a bit farther than it did in vanilla but its not very noticable.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 03:05:59 am by zhade »

Regrs

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #127 on: August 21, 2015, 07:55:23 am »
Death Machine (Kettle Kin in the US version) is the boss they censored. He had a chainsaw originally instead of being a palette swap of Kilroy.

TheMagician

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #128 on: August 21, 2015, 10:22:04 pm »
First, I would like to say that this mod is very fun.  I'm up to Mandala at the moment and have not had any issues.  I really like the changes to magic.  The ability to target your own characters with offensive magic makes leveling magic super simple.  I have a couple of comments though.

1)  Could you attempt to make weapons that say, "Effective against [blank]" actually work?  If you do get it to work, you might also consider changing the order of some effects.  For instance, the Dragon Buster sword is supposed to be effective against dragons.  However, you can't even get that sword until all dragon bosses are defeated.  (I think Dark Stalkers and Ninja Masters are dragons though, correct me if I'm wrong).

2)  The block feature (pressing L) is a neat concept, but I ultimately ignored it after the Mantis Ant boss in Potos.  Blocking with L is very hard to time correctly, and most of the time you have enough going on with manually targeting magic and trying to attack the enemy.  Personally I think the feature would be better replaced with something else.  I would suggest some sort of invincible roll that distances you from the attack (I'm pretty sure animations for that exist).

3)  I saw you mention this before, but I would really welcome changes that differentiated the weapons a little bit more.  I love the idea you had with the Javelin; making the weak attack a melee attack and the strong attack a throw.  I can see this being hard to implement though, and even if you did wouldn't that make the real Spear just an inferior Javelin at that point?

The Glove is in some serious need of change too.  At the moment, its super short range just makes it completely subpar to every other weapon.  The Glove should be a fast hitting weapon too.  I suggest having it's attacks recharge very fast (start the stamina gauge at 50-75%), but giving it a reduction in power.  I feel like it should be a combo weapon with punches and kicks flying everywhere.  Also, in the original game the Glove attacks would randomly grapple and throw enemies.  Is there anyway you could still include that feature or maybe even make it executable on command?

The Axe is also another weapon in need of overhaul.  It's pretty much an inferior Sword.  I'm not sure what could be done to differentiate it though.  The easy thing to do would be to just give is a flat damage increase to make it more appealing than the Sword if you learn to get good with it.

4)  I like being able to choose between a strong and a weak attack.  However, I think the controls for them should be switched.  More often than not, I am pressing a directional button while attacking.  It's actually more difficult to position myself, then stop moving completely, and attack.  This makes the strong attack the default attack usually.  I feel like the weak attack should be default, and the strong should be harder to execute.  I suggest having the weak attack be Direction+Attack instead.  I'd be interested in hearing what others think though.

5)  It might be beyond the scope of this mod, but do you think you could fix the weapon orbs issue?  The Glove and Axe come up one orb short a piece by the end of the game.  Somewhere around mid game (when you get Flammie), they both seem to be missing an orb for the rest of the game.  Would it be very hard to change the contents of one of those 1000GP chests you find in the palaces to give you these orbs instead?

All in all, great job with this mod and I really look forward to more changes!

KillerBob

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #129 on: August 21, 2015, 11:28:12 pm »
I already have a SoM hack with a working VWF, which will be released soon with the old english script (just need to modify the title screen, to reinsert the english intro text and to do an auto-formatting of the text to take advantage of the VWF, as it actually use the line breaks of the old script, so right now, mostly only the left part of the text box is used).

So the only thing missing to get an english retranslation with a VWF and uncensored stuffs is just a japanese to english translator to translate the japanese script.
This sounds pretty damn amazing! Is the English version of the title screen still the one used as a base in your hacks? If so, would you consider to restore the Japanese title screen? Perhaps difficult to accomplish, but the English version of it was IMO a bastardization.


zhade

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
    • View Profile
    • zhaDe's stuff
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #130 on: August 21, 2015, 11:41:14 pm »
@TheMagician

1) I would probably be able to make it work, the enemies have their type set and these weapons when equiped do set a value in the characters data that stands for which enemy type your weapon is strong against. So it would be easy to make it work. Ill look at the order too.

2) At first I wanted to make the L button a dodge that would make you do the back-flip animation, but there is no such animation when facing up/down so thats why I chose to make it block instead. Its hard to use against melee attacks because the attacks are praticaly instantaneous so you have to start to block before the enemy attack. I didnt use it much on my first playthrough but with the hard difficulty it gets useful because of how fast the enemies attack. It is very good against projectile weapons tho like the chobin arrows since they charge-up their bow before attacking and you can start to block while the projectile is traveling towards you.

3) I will try my best at making the javelin do a slash for the weak attack, Ill probably find a way to make it work somehow. I don't think it will make it a better spear since the spear is the weapon with the highest attack power and has a good range when using the thrust attack which can damage multiple enemies.

For the axe, since its pretty much the same as the sword, I thought of raising the critical hit rate to make it different.

It could be nice to have the gloves attack faster like you said. Normally when enemies are on the ground/uncounsious and you attack them you sometimes do a level1 charged attack instead of a regular attack. I think the gloves do the throw instead. The way I implemented the weak/strong attacks came in conflict with this, I thought it was OK because some level1 charge attacks are slow and you might not want to do it but I could find a way to make the throw work again.

4) I find it hard to do the weak attack too sometimes, you have to wait a bit after immobilizing yourself for it to work. I still think putting the strong attack on A would be better but its already used for running and people seemed to prefer that I keep it. I could make the A button run only when in places where you dont have your weapons drawn (like in towns), that way I could also make the "running in every direction" since it would not make it too easy to run from enemies. But if I keep the current controls, since the strong attack is a thrust for most weapons, I think it feels more natural for it to be on direction+attack.

5) All weapon orbs are obtainable (all but 1 for the sword). List of all orbs locations . Some enemies in the last area give you the last orbs for all weapons and if you missed some you can get more from them.

Edit : I just noticed while looking at the link to the orb locations that I posted that for some weapons you have to get 2 from the enemies in the mana fortress, so I guess its what you meant. I could probably change some chests to give you orbs but I don't remember chests giving money other than the one in potos village and 3? in pandora. I think it would make the axe and gloves have 1 more orb than the other weapons for some time if you obtain them in pandora but since those 2 weapons are not used much, I think it would be actually be a good thing.

@KillerBob
Wow, the japanese title screen really looks nice  :o It looks to me like they didnt have the background image without the name so they just used the lower part of the image, stretched it and added "secret of mana"... I hope im wrong and the background is seperate from the name so that it is possible to bring it back tho.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 11:51:57 pm by zhade »

KillerBob

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #131 on: August 22, 2015, 01:15:04 am »
Wow, the japanese title screen really looks nice  :o It looks to me like they didnt have the background image without the name so they just used the lower part of the image, stretched it and added "secret of mana"... I hope im wrong and the background is seperate from the name so that it is possible to bring it back tho.
If I remember correctly, the logos aren't part of the background, they both move upwards in frame while the black frame opens up to reveal the Mana Tree (or it is the background that scrolls behind it). The orange part of the Japanese logo is animated as well, it looks very nice. No idea why the change was done. Perhaps they wanted to draw more focus on the characters of the game, but the zoomed in picture wasn't nice towards the artwork.

Btw awesome work on this, zhade!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 04:56:39 am by KillerBob »

Thanatos-Zero

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 224
  • NES Graphic Designer
    • View Profile
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #132 on: August 22, 2015, 04:53:27 am »
This sounds pretty damn amazing! Is the English version of the title screen still the one used as a base in your hacks? If so, would you consider to restore the Japanese title screen? Perhaps difficult to accomplish, but the English version of it was IMO a bastardization.



Isn't it sad, that our trio never gets that close to the unharmed Mana Tree, but instead see it from the horizont, while Thanatos blasts it to charcoal?

Atleast in Seiken Densetsu 3 you get to the tree once, before the big bad goes to destroy it later in the game.

Regrs

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #133 on: August 22, 2015, 07:38:53 am »
5) All weapon orbs are obtainable (all but 1 for the sword). List of all orbs locations . Some enemies in the last area give you the last orbs for all weapons and if you missed some you can get more from them.

Edit : I just noticed while looking at the link to the orb locations that I posted that for some weapons you have to get 2 from the enemies in the mana fortress, so I guess its what you meant. I could probably change some chests to give you orbs but I don't remember chests giving money other than the one in potos village and 3? in pandora. I think it would make the axe and gloves have 1 more orb than the other weapons for some time if you obtain them in pandora but since those 2 weapons are not used much, I think it would be actually be a good thing.

The missing Glove Orb (And a Sword Orb) are located in the Grand Palace. You have to no-clip though a wall in order to get them.


TheMagician

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #134 on: August 22, 2015, 10:25:58 am »
The missing Glove Orb (And a Sword Orb) are located in the Grand Palace. You have to no-clip though a wall in order to get them.


Yea, that was kind of my point.  Those orbs are, for all intents and purposes, unobtainable.  And the Axe orb is simply MIA.


@TheMagician

5) All weapon orbs are obtainable (all but 1 for the sword). List of all orbs locations . Some enemies in the last area give you the last orbs for all weapons and if you missed some you can get more from them.

Edit : I just noticed while looking at the link to the orb locations that I posted that for some weapons you have to get 2 from the enemies in the mana fortress, so I guess its what you meant. I could probably change some chests to give you orbs but I don't remember chests giving money other than the one in potos village and 3? in pandora. I think it would make the axe and gloves have 1 more orb than the other weapons for some time if you obtain them in pandora but since those 2 weapons are not used much, I think it would be actually be a good thing.


There are a lot of chests which give 1000 GP.  There's 1 or 2 in the Fire Palace and at least 1 in the Dark Palace.  However, if I remember correctly, I think they are coded to give you orbs if you are deficient in an orb, or 1000GP if you have enough orbs.  It's like if you skip the chests in Pandora, when you get to Santa's house the chest with the Spear orb will actually reappear and give you another spear orb so that you are up to par.

I always found it funny how the game could include fail-safes like that in order to make sure you have the correct number of orbs, but then completely ignore the fact that the Axe and Glove are always 1 orb behind everything else from about Flammie onward.

August 22, 2015, 10:32:29 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
"B for weak, Y for strong (X used for own menu and X again to change to other characters menu)"


This is the best option I think.  I always found having two menu buttons extremely redundant.  The new magic casting system also lessens the amount of times you actually need to go into the menu too.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 10:32:29 am by TheMagician »

DragonArk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #135 on: August 23, 2015, 08:10:53 pm »
Hi all,
First, just wanted to say thanks you everyone working on this (especially Zhade) because SoM is one of my favorite games from my childhood and I love coming here every day to see what's happening!  :thumbsup: (I have been here, just never posted)

Anyway, don't know if this is possible but with the block button, (L isn't is?) it would be great if each weapon had it's own unique use for that button. For example, sword could dodge, axe could block, gloves could throw, that way each weapon has it's own characteristic and more of a reason to choose it. Some moves would obviously be better than others, so throw for example could have a much larger recharge, and block would have basically no recharge as it is now. Don't know if this can be implemented separately like that, but would be amazing if it was possible.

With running, as others mentioned, it would be great to move in any direction in cities. I personally think its better to make it run that way all the time  (like in Secret of Evermore). Some people are saying that you can just run past everything easily but I don't see that as a bad thing. If you run past everything, you just won't level up and be strong enough to beat bosses and also there are always parts which are narrow and hard to run past. It should be up to the players strategy if they want to run or not. People wont be able to run in attack and run out due to stamina being emptied after run is released. I don't really use run that much, only on a long straight. I think it will be more fun for people who have played this game multiple times. Perhaps you can make it so run is disabled on hard mode.

I think the menu should be changed to X only though as it would free up a button for any future ideas people might think of to implement.

Also, I'm not really feeling the quick attack. Just feels like it's a bit useless. I didn't really mind the original random attack, but this improvement doesn't feel better or worse for me. I don't see the worth for it taking up an extra button though so I think the direction is enough. I'm probably wrong here seeing that I haven't tested it much, but if I attack faster with less damage doesn't that mean that you are doing less damage in total due to the enemies armor being applied each time? I guess it's just useful for weak enemies that die in one hit?

I gave this a go on the Korean version but didn't work (as you probably expected)

But yeah, amazing work guys, can't believe you are able to hack so much of this, usually people just give up half way so I'm so glad you guys are so dedicated! I'm a multimedia developer specializing in graphics and video. Doubt I can help here, but if you need me give me a shout. I'll try to play the whole game again sometime.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 10:38:25 pm by DragonArk »

ze10

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #136 on: August 23, 2015, 10:16:46 pm »
I voted for other, because I didn't really care about strong/weak attacks. I just wanted to attack, and during gameplay, I didn't see a reason to switch between those two types of attack.

TheZunar123

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
    • View Profile
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #137 on: August 23, 2015, 10:57:40 pm »
In my opinion, the best option would either be B + forward for weak and just B for strong, or separate them into B and Y.

B + forward for weak and just B for strong makes sense logically, if you were in a real life situation it would make sense if you had to stop moving and focus to hit harder. However I can see how this would cause problems in-game, for example trying to position your character just right for the strong attack.

Separating into B and Y would eliminate said problems, but there's one small issue. This might be a stupid question due to me not remembering the original mechanics, but if X switched to another character window, how would you exit out the menus? If I remember correctly, the only way to exit out of menus is to open your menu and hit the X button or use an item or something. Does the A button exit the menus as well?

Excited for this project and will definitely try it out once it's completed.
Speedrunner and Let's Player.
www.youtube.com/ZunarSR

zhade

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
    • View Profile
    • zhaDe's stuff
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #138 on: August 24, 2015, 03:14:18 am »
@DragonArk
Different blocks/dodge for each weapon could be a good idea, but unfortunatly, There is no animation for the back-flip dodge facing up/down and it automatically makes you move left or right when the animation is played which would not be practical. So I can't see alot of variations possible. Maybe if I can find a way to move the players properly I could use the dodge animation and make you move back I thought of making the glove do a counter-attack if you sucessfully dodge an attack, It could make you throw the enemy if you dodge a melee attack, since melee attacks are hard to block/dodge it could have no recharge time at all and make the gloves way better and make you feel like a karate master (tho it wouldnt work against bosses). Aside from that I think other weapons should have either block or dodge (if I can make it work), if all weapons had a diffenrent dodge/block it could get confusing and im running out of ideas anyway.

As for the running I think you have a good point, even if it makes it easier to pass-by enemies, you wont get experience that way and in hard-mode you will need it badly anyway so it could be kept.

@DragonArk and ze10
The weak attack doesnt seem to be very popular, personnaly I use it sometimes with the sword and the spear because the attack is wider and some enemies only attack straight so you can stand in diagonal from them an attack without beign in their range. It also can attack multiple enemies at once better if they are not all lined up. With the sword , and the spear too (I think) the attack is a bit faster. The damage is lower and even tho it attacks faster it doesnt make up for the power of the strong attack so the strong attack is better because it deals more damage per second but the weak attack can be useful too sometimes. The weak attack can also be used when you want to start charging an attack since the power recharging time is lower you will start charging a bit sooner. I admit its not very useful with ranged weapons tho, I plan to make the javelin do a melee attack to make this better, maybe I could make the bow shoot farther with the weak attack and the boomerang could also have a melee attack (the boomerang already have a melee animation that is used with some charge attacks so maybe it would not be hard to pull off).

The korean version (since it uses other characters) most likely has some stuff that come in conflict with this hack. Btw is the korean version an official version or a fan-translation ?. If its a fan translation they most likely expanded the ROM and used the same space as i do for their routines. I think it should work with other languages tho as long as it uses the alphabet.

Thank you for you support ! im actually the only one really working on this altho people in here have helped me alot with beta-testing as well as feedbacks and gave me good ideas of stuff to improve. Regrs also sent me his code so that I can implement the "naming with lower-case letters" as well as a way to make the "Agrsomthing" boss chew characters and helped me grasp alot of things about the game mechanics. Hiei- is also working on making his re-translation with uncensored content work with this hack which will help improve the game.

@TheZunar123
Altho as it is now its harder to do the weak attack it makes sense to change it for the strong attack but , like I said before, since the strong attack is a thrust is seems to me that it feels more natural to have it on forward+B.

Im starting to think the best idea would be to use Y for the strong attack as it would make it easier to do the weak attack without removing the ability to run.

I really didnt think about it when I got the idea and you are right, the Y button is normally used to get out of the menu so if X is the only button used for the menu you would get stuck in the menu because pressing X again would only switch to a different character  :D. I could use the Y button make you go out of the menu tho since you cant attack in the menu anyway.

Update:
I just implemented something that makes it so you can't get hit while performing a charge-attack, it bothered me that sometimes you charged for a long time but an enemy hitted you and your attack got canceled.. I happens alot against the serpent bosses and its just not fun.. I didnt use chage attacks much because of this. It only works for physical attacks. I remember someone asked for this, IIRC it was SageOwl tho he might not have make it throught this wall of text  :D

Edit:
I tried to make it so that the screen start scrolling sooner and make the screen stop at the edges of the maps so that you don't see whats on the other side but unfortunaly some maps also have some messed-up graphics that we normally can't see because the screen doesnt scroll enough and some maps have those messed-up graphics start right where we can't see so I can't make the screen start scrolling sooner even by a small amount :( I would have to edit the maps to make them look good everywhere but I dont think the current state of someEdt makes it possible to edit maps properly..
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 03:28:41 am by zhade »

Piotyr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1485
  • I'm useful, honest!
    • View Profile
Re: Secret Of Mana Gameplay Improvement Hack
« Reply #139 on: August 24, 2015, 08:44:38 am »
Not getting hit while charging attacks seems kinda op really.