News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Current Moderators - DarkSol, KingMike, MathOnNapkins, Azkadellia, Danke

Author Topic: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)  (Read 99360 times)

Avicalendriya

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 208
    • View Profile
    • Avi Morgan dot com
Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« on: July 02, 2015, 04:34:05 pm »

















Translation & Graphics:
Avicalendriya

Hacking & Programming:
DDS Translation


There are a ton of graphics that need to be redrawn for this game. Curtains hanging before the entrances of businesses, informative signs, indoor wall hangings and decorations abound, and there's also user interface text, assist text, the Game Over screen, labels on the Area Maps, the Goemon Impact HUD, and so on. Initially, I struggled with bringing over the quirkiness, humor, and Japanese cultural references in the script, but that's child's play compared to faithfully recreating these complex graphics so as to not only get the idea across in English, but also retain the "look and feel" of the original Japanese visuals.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 04:10:52 pm by Avicalendriya »

Chpexo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 731
    • View Profile
.
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2015, 06:45:13 pm »
.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 08:23:03 am by Chpexo »

SunGodPortal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2921
  • 2 + 2 = 5
    • View Profile
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2015, 07:36:38 pm »
This looks pretty good. I'm dying to play another one of these on the SNES while actually knowing what is going on. Goemon is AWESOME...
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.

VicVergil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 715
    • View Profile
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2015, 10:34:30 pm »
Isn't Gideon Zhi already working on this?

Thanks a billion for sharing these and working on this gem. I'm interested in the decompression/compression tools for Goemon 2, and if possible the three other games if it's the same. Really hope you'll be open to sharing these once your project is done.

Not that it's really important since in this game since you don't get to choose (unlike Ganbare Goemon 1 Princess Yuki's Disappearance/LotMN) but for continuity reasons shouldn't the bathrooms say "male/female"? Well, the continuity will be lost on the people who played non-Japanese versions of Ganbare Goemon 1 since the bathrooms were censored, but still :P

Also, if that's any help, I'm trying to learn ARM to get Goemon DS to show its 16x16 font as 8x16 and I prepared this font (modified and based on ReyVGM's font database) as the English equivalent for the big calligraphic font:



The work I've seen so far looks great. There is obviously a lot of work that went into the graphic editing.

One criticism I have is that the text in this screenshot is in all caps.



I wouldn't mind this so much if this game was for the NES because of the limitations, but this is the SNES, a much more powerful system. In addition to this a lot of other text is in lowercase so the all caps dialogue seems out of place. Since there should be a lot of space from the removed Japanese font, I don't think adding lowercase letters to the graphics should be an issue unless there is size constraints due to compression for whatever reason.

Wasn't that meant to be like the font used in the English arcade version of Xexex for the same intro? Besides the minigame in Japanese Ganbare Goemon 2 written exclusively in katakana, equivalent of all-caps.
(But why is "save our star/planet" in the beginning omitted? The NES line spacing here shouldn't be so essential parts of the original message get cut, especially considering the Japanese version doesn't respect it)

« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 10:57:08 pm by GHANMI »

Avicalendriya

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 208
    • View Profile
    • Avi Morgan dot com
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2015, 04:55:16 am »
I really appreciate the feedback you guys.


The work I've seen so far looks great. There is obviously a lot of work that went into the graphic editing.

Thank you, I will be continuously revising each of the localized graphics until they are as good as I can make them.


Quote
One criticism I have is that the text in this screenshot is in all caps.

Actually this is the sole Latin font that already exists in the ROM, because the Xexex minigame uses it for things such as "Push Start", therefore it was utilized for the translated text.

The localized graphic in this room is the Konami sign over to the left of the big screen.


This looks pretty good. I'm dying to play another one of these on the SNES while actually knowing what is going on. Goemon is AWESOME...

Thanks SunGodPortal, this is probably the best of the four SNES Goemon titles, so I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Also, about the giant robot battle that you mentioned in another thread, those become even more difficult as you progress through the major areas.


Isn't Gideon Zhi already working on this?

Yes, Gid has been working on it for quite some time, off and on I would assume, not unlike my situation. But I see no problem with there being multiple releases of a game, and really like the idea actually. As far as this game, I happen to really like it, and what's just as important if not more so, is that I really enjoy working on it.

In fact, when this project was resurrected several years ago, a number of my other dormant projects were brought back with it. Several of them are already being translated, but I'm still interested in completing them. This form of creative puzzle solving is engaging in its own way and continues to hold my interest. I think it will be fun to share the resulting games with my son when he's older, and of course my brother and friend have got to come over for some Goemon 2 when it's finished!

Side note: It's a perspective trip to reflect on the fact that 17 years ago when I stumbled into The Scene, we already thought of these games as being dated.


Quote
Thanks a billion for sharing these and working on this gem. I'm interested in the decompression/compression tools for Goemon 2, and if possible the three other games if it's the same. Really hope you'll be open to sharing these once your project is done.

I guess that's not my call since I didn't do the hacking.


Quote
Not that it's really important since in this game since you don't get to choose (unlike Ganbare Goemon 1 Princess Yuki's Disappearance/LotMN) but for continuity reasons shouldn't the bathrooms say "male/female"? Well, the continuity will be lost on the people who played non-Japanese versions of Ganbare Goemon 1 since the bathrooms were censored, but still :P

Actually, you do get to choose male or female baths when paying the entry fee. As far as those graphics, that was more of something I did just for fun, putting Ebisumaru's face on the female bath entrance, and Goemon's face on the other. It was just to avoid a generic pair of man and woman symbol signs, or "ladies" and "gentlemen" text. But I'll have to come up with something better than this, in any case.


Quote
Also, if that's any help, I'm trying to learn ARM to get Goemon DS to show its 16x16 font as 8x16 and I prepared this font (modified and based on ReyVGM's font database) as the English equivalent for the big calligraphic font

That looks great. I've created one that looks hand written as well, and I'm trying hard to get the same "feel" into it as the original. I didn't share the 8x16 or 16x16 fonts here because I recently overhauled them and they're looking a bit rough.


Quote
Wasn't that meant to be like the font used in the English arcade version of Xexex for the same intro?

Whoa, it sure is the same font. I've never seen the arcade game before.


Quote
But why is "save our star/planet" in the beginning omitted? The NES line spacing here shouldn't be so essential parts of the original message get cut, especially considering the Japanese version doesn't respect it

 I'd translated the intro as:

"I am Irene of the planet E-Square. Please save my people."

The idea was to display the second line independently from the first, since it doesn't fit on one screen.

BadChad

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2015, 10:54:36 am »
Really looking forward to this release. Put many hours into the first game when I was younger!

What would be the chances of an alternate title "Legend of the Mystical Ninja 2" for North America consistency?

VicVergil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 715
    • View Profile
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2015, 11:15:21 am »
I'd translated the intro as:

"I am Irene of the planet E-Square. Please save my people."

The idea was to display the second line independently from the first, since it doesn't fit on one screen.

That's really awesome :D
And I wasn't even aware Goemon could go into women's room in this game too.

And by the way, you might be aware of that GBA compilation of the first two games?
It's not suitable by any means for a translation, between the horrendous sound effects and newly introduced bugs, but...
That port's one redeeming feature (besides a character select in Ganbare Goemon 1) was the ability in Ganbare Goemon 2 to switch between all three characters with the Select button in the overworld instead of requiring a reset. But all three characters now share the same inventory and money amount.

One another big flaw of Goemon 2 (and 4, btw)...
It sorely misses that SMW button combination cheat to replay already cleared dungeons and bosses (the game performs a check though and avoids writing anything to the SRAM or flag data the second time onwards though). Which is a real shame since those levels are the highlight of the game's level design and often include tons of alternate paths.

They're not included in the scope of a translation, but these would make for a nice "PAL bonus" feature, even though it would change the feel of the game so much some purists may prefer to have that as an optional hack.

What would be the chances of an alternate title "Legend of the Mystical Ninja 2" for North America consistency?

If anything, the first game ("Princess Yuki's Disappearance" is the one that should be retranslated, with an SRAM hack to do away with that shitty password system, to be consistent with the later releases.
A ton was lost in translation, between censorship, nonsensical translations and various limitations. English dialog takes forever to show and uses all caps because they couldn't use the lower case font they included - as they removed vowels from it to prevent kids from writing naughty stuff in the password screen probably.

The Japanese game is better in every way.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 11:33:27 am by GHANMI »

reyvgm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
    • View Profile
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2015, 02:17:06 pm »

Actually this is the sole Latin font that already exists in the ROM, because the Xexex minigame uses it for things such as "Push Start", therefore it was utilized for the translated text.


You can use the font seen here for the text:
http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/snes/d/goemon2.htm

That's an official Konami font, they used it for several of the western games back then and it fits/matches perfectly with the Goemon font.

Bahamut ZERO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 906
    • View Profile
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2015, 03:37:10 pm »
Oh man, this made my day! i've been a Goemon addict since playing Mystical Ninja as a kid,  playing through both it and Goemon's Great Adventure on N64 countless times.

I'm stoked there's finally some love being shown to Goemon 2! I've tried playing through it untranslated, but never got very far.  Keep up the epic work!
Like Super Mario Land? Then you'll love my first completed Rom Hack: Maniac on the Run!

Pennywise

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2256
  • I'm curious
    • View Profile
    • Yojimbo's Translations
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2015, 03:58:10 pm »
In the ending for Goemon 2 on the Famicom, Ebismaru turns into a girl. So, those bathroom graphics are somewhat fitting. Let's see for the bath house in 2, I just the basic male/female symbol found in Pokemon etc.

Anyhow, I don't particularly like the Mystical Ninja localization title since the game's not really about ninjas and has more to do with thievery. When I do eventually get around to doing the Ganbare Goemon Gaiden's for the NES, I'm just gonna call them "The Legend of Goemon." I guess I'm not particularly fond of translating Ganbare as well. I feel like the translation of it isn't really fitting with the goofy nature of the series. Beats me if I can tell you a better alternative though.

MachoAlex

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2015, 05:03:30 pm »
THIS IS THE BEST NEWS OF MY LIFE!!!

Gideon Zhi

  • IRC Staff
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3508
    • View Profile
    • Aeon Genesis
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2015, 06:58:16 pm »
This looks really, really well done. To be honest, the amount of small incidental interface work has sort of been off-putting, which is a big reason this has been going so slowly on my end. It looks way better than what I'd probably end up producing, not the least because I lack the sort of connection you obviously have to the game. If/when this releases I'm more than happy plugging it and dropping my own; it'll be one less thing I feel like I have to do. Bravo!

VicVergil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 715
    • View Profile
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2015, 10:28:50 pm »
In the ending for Goemon 2 on the Famicom, Ebismaru turns into a girl. So, those bathroom graphics are somewhat fitting. Let's see for the bath house in 2, I just the basic male/female symbol found in Pokemon etc.

Besides a certain infamous futuristic reboot (mentioned as an old shame of the series in the DS game, where the New Oedo protagonist gets jailed as an imposter) and even in that one it was made clear that Ebisu and this Ebisumaru are different characters (for plot reasons better not spoiled here), I guess Konami retconned "Ranma-like Girl Ebisumaru" and "Black Thief Ebisumaru" from the NES days long ago at this point (and much of the characterization from the Famicom RPGs sadly).

You might be right about Bismaru, the homocidial futuristic nun and descendant of Ebisumaru who looks just like him.

If I may ask a question since you're more familiar with the NES games, which Goemon game had nudity for entering an onsen and a lynch mob when you enter the girl's room? Or am I mistaking it with something else entirely?

chillyfeez

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 824
    • View Profile
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2015, 11:10:13 pm »
You guys will be my personal heroes when this is done. Can't wait.
I know that something like this is a veritable buttload of work, and I understand firsthand about maintaining the balance between a massive romhacking project and a full real life of job and family and all the other crap that happens, so... Well, I'm rooting for you!
Looks great so far!
Ongoing project: "Final Fantasy IV: A Threat From Within"

Latest Demo

Googie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 829
  • I'd like to solve the puzzle... Jiggers!
    • View Profile
    • My work in progress ROM Hacking site
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2015, 12:10:07 am »
I bought this game for $85 at a mom & pop game store when it first came out in the 90's. I never got tired of playing it, according to EGM it was never released here in the states because of it's Japanese style, which sucked in my opinion. I also like the cameos from other Konami games too. :D

I'm looking forward to the final product, hopefully down the line maybe people will pick up Goemon 3 & 4 too... :)

When Ebisumaru had his fan in full power, that pimp slap sound always made me laugh! :laugh:

Avicalendriya

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 208
    • View Profile
    • Avi Morgan dot com
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2015, 04:21:14 am »
What would be the chances of an alternate title "Legend of the Mystical Ninja 2" for North America consistency?

I'll probably just leave the title as it is. I've never played the first game anyway, so there won't be any consistency between the two.

Also, regarding the first game's localization: There isn't anything mystical about Ishikawa Goemon, is there? If he existed, he was a thief, possibly a ninja, or perhaps both at one time or another.


One another big flaw of Goemon 2 (and 4, btw)...
It sorely misses that SMW button combination cheat to replay already cleared dungeons and bosses (the game performs a check though and avoids writing anything to the SRAM or flag data the second time onwards though). Which is a real shame since those levels are the highlight of the game's level design and often include tons of alternate paths.

I agree, the inability to replay those levels is a strange design decision.


Quote
They're not included in the scope of a translation, but these would make for a nice "PAL bonus" feature, even though it would change the feel of the game so much some purists may prefer to have that as an optional hack.

 Some kind of 2.5 hack might be a cool project.


Quote
If anything, the first game ("Princess Yuki's Disappearance" is the one that should be retranslated, with an SRAM hack to do away with that shitty password system, to be consistent with the later releases.

Yes it should. Depending on how painful this project ends up being, I'll consider working on the others.


You can use the font seen here for the text:
http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/snes/d/goemon2.htm

That's an official Konami font, they used it for several of the western games back then and it fits/matches perfectly with the Goemon font.

It's a pretty good font, but I'm most likely going to use a custom 8x16. I figure everything might as well be custom for this, giving it a uniform style while trying to mimic the feel of the original.


I'm stoked there's finally some love being shown to Goemon 2!

It's funny, this is one of those games that's been started by many individuals. I have to wonder if it's Cursed.


When I do eventually get around to doing the Ganbare Goemon Gaiden's for the NES, I'm just gonna call them "The Legend of Goemon." I guess I'm not particularly fond of translating Ganbare as well. I feel like the translation of it isn't really fitting with the goofy nature of the series. Beats me if I can tell you a better alternative though.

I need to play the NES games someday. I like their style.

"Go for it" is the best I could do, but as far as the Gaiden games go, "Ganbare" does seem more difficult to incorporate into the translated title.


THIS IS THE BEST NEWS OF MY LIFE!!!

I doubt that, but thank you!


This looks really, really well done. To be honest, the amount of small incidental interface work has sort of been off-putting, which is a big reason this has been going so slowly on my end. It looks way better than what I'd probably end up producing, not the least because I lack the sort of connection you obviously have to the game. If/when this releases I'm more than happy plugging it and dropping my own; it'll be one less thing I feel like I have to do. Bravo!

Thanks Gid. You're not kidding, it's a lot of work. The amount of graphics that need to be redrwan has intimidated me and seen me casting doubt on the quality of my output plenty of times.


You guys will be my personal heroes when this is done. Can't wait.

Thanks chillyfeez. Now all we have to do is pretend there's no Curse and ignore its obvious effects as we proceed.


I never got tired of playing it

I never tired of it either. It's got some things in common with Super Mario World, such as the world map with branching paths, stages with multiple exits, and excellent replay value.

Maeson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 278
    • View Profile
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2015, 06:11:56 am »
This looks amazing!

I hope you're wrong and the game is not really cursed, because the work being made here looks too good!
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 02:47:07 pm by Maeson »
I'm off for some time. If for some weird, strange, and important reason, you need to talk to me, just send me a PM and probably I'll read it whenever I come back.

SunGodPortal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2921
  • 2 + 2 = 5
    • View Profile
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2015, 02:25:42 pm »
Quote
I've never played the first game anyway, so there won't be any consistency between the two.

Well, you're missing out. It's a great game. Anyway, you won't be losing anything by not mimicing the crappy localizations of those days, when many of these people didn't seem to take their jobs very seriously despite the fact that they were working on some of the most awesome games of all time.

Quote
Also, regarding the first game's localization: There isn't anything mystical about Ishikawa Goemon, is there? If he existed, he was a thief, possibly a ninja, or perhaps both at one time or another.

If the movie Shogun's Ninja (a historical drama/action flick from the 70's based on real events) was correct, Ishikawa Goemon wasn't even a real person. It was a gang of thieves that operated in a "Robin Hood" capacity and spread rumors about this Goemon character so as to trick the authorities into thinking that the thefts were the work of one "master thief" rather than a gang of individuals who were plotting to overthrow the government.

EDIT: I should mention that it worked and that most or all of the members of this gang were children of the Iga ninja clan that was massacred by the shogun (I think he was the shogun...?). Their friend Takemaru (who I believe was the son of the leader of the Iga ninja) was the one who took over and became the new shogun. I believe his family ruled over Japan for a few centuries afterwards.

So yeah, I guess Goemon was a fictional character who likely birthed many folk tales but was connected to real people and events from Japan's history about 4 or 500 years ago.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 03:11:27 pm by SunGodPortal »
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.

VicVergil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 715
    • View Profile
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2015, 08:55:00 pm »
If the movie Shogun's Ninja (a historical drama/action flick from the 70's based on real events) was correct, Ishikawa Goemon wasn't even a real person. It was a gang of thieves that operated in a "Robin Hood" capacity and spread rumors about this Goemon character so as to trick the authorities into thinking that the thefts were the work of one "master thief" rather than a gang of individuals who were plotting to overthrow the government.

Nice, so that means no one was boiled alive with his baby children  ;D
Good for Goemon :P

SunGodPortal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2921
  • 2 + 2 = 5
    • View Profile
Re: Ganbare Goemon 2 (SNES)
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2015, 09:05:10 pm »
Quote
Nice, so that means no one was boiled alive with his baby children  ;D

I sure hope not, but you never know with this world. Humans can be pretty barbaric. :-[
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.