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Author Topic: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized  (Read 130064 times)

Reiska

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #340 on: May 23, 2021, 04:29:05 am »
Just a quick chime in to note: DW4 ROMs that are 1024KB are an overdump that commonly circulated back in the early days, the correct ROM size is 512KB.

MaruMaru

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #341 on: May 25, 2021, 08:29:44 pm »
Don't mind me, just here to cheer you guys on!  :beer:

Kallisto

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #342 on: May 27, 2021, 08:11:33 pm »
I have formed a somewhat strange opinion when it comes to the graphical changes for DQ1-3 (not so much IV), but it seems to me that the American Sprites were actually better than the Japanese Sprites in some cases (some, but not all).

Personally I'm not a fan of the original religious icons due to their sloppy design, but the American designs to me look much cooler in comparison.

The DQ1 NPCs were also lacking somewhat compared to their USA versions.

Another being Ortega, seems like Ortega look liked a giant moron compared to the makeover he got later.

Personally if it were up to me I would split the graphics up into mini-patches, and the people can mix and match which ones they would like to restore for their version of Dragon Quest. I think this has been done before for some games on here, and I think Dragon Quest could qualify for mini patches if you so desired to do so though.

Looking through TCRF it seems that DQIV heavily suffered for other reasons besides the minor censorship such as lost sea monsters.


and speaking of the SNES versions earlier in this thread, I still hope one day someone does something about that terrible music for DQI&II whether it be remixed SNES type music or MSU-1.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 08:19:33 pm by Kallisto »

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #343 on: May 27, 2021, 09:13:05 pm »
Just a quick chime in to note: DW4 ROMs that are 1024KB are an overdump that commonly circulated back in the early days, the correct ROM size is 512KB.
Thank you, Reiska. Something to watch out for. Perhaps that list I referenced was using the wrong ROM.

Don't mind me, just here to cheer you guys on!  :beer:
We appreciate your enthusiasm and support!

I have formed a somewhat strange opinion when it comes to the graphical changes for DQ1-3 (not so much IV), but it seems to me that the American Sprites were actually better than the Japanese Sprites in some cases (some, but not all).

Personally I'm not a fan of the original religious icons due to their sloppy design, but the American designs to me look much cooler in comparison.

The DQ1 NPCs were also lacking somewhat compared to their USA versions.

Another being Ortega, seems like Ortega look liked a giant moron compared to the makeover he got later.

Personally if it were up to me I would split the graphics up into mini-patches, and the people can mix and match which ones they would like to restore for their version of Dragon Quest. I think this has been done before for some games on here, and I think Dragon Quest could qualify for mini patches if you so desired to do so though.

Looking through TCRF it seems that DQIV heavily suffered for other reasons besides the minor censorship such as lost sea monsters.


and speaking of the SNES versions earlier in this thread, I still hope one day someone does something about that terrible music for DQI&II whether it be remixed SNES type music or MSU-1.
Kind of a unique set of opinions, as you stated, but I get where you're coming from. I published an addendum patch for FF1 Restored that reverted several sprites back to their North American counterparts because I felt they looked better, so I get it. But in those cases, the changes were generally more about polish and less about censorship. Removal of censorship and faithfulness to Horii's vision is the core idea of these particular projects; not necessarily making an "ultimate version" that's going to make everyone happy.

That being said, you aren't going to get the whole story of the Delocalized versions based on TCRF alone.

I included an option to revert to the localized hero / NPC sprite graphics for DQ1, knowing that many would get hung up on the relative downgrade of the Famicom graphics. I ultimately am an advocate for the Famicom graphics because they are historic, and they make for a much better transition to the graphics in 2, which essentially takes the design of the Famicom DQ1 sprites and adds 4 direction walking.

I did not revert the localized Ortega to the original Famicom Ortega however. I believe I had come across evidence that the Kandata / Kandar palette swap sprite in the Japanese version was only used for the reason of severe space restriction in the ROM, kind of like the title screen and fanfare being cut.

If the cross instead of the star tile is a big issue for you, I could very easily send a version of the patch with that tile swapped. Let me know.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 07:38:04 am by Chicken Knife »

Rabite890

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #344 on: May 28, 2021, 02:59:40 am »
Thank you, Reiska. Something to watch out for. Perhaps that list I referenced was using the wrong ROM.

To my recollection that 1024KB ROM was due to a work around that NESticle used to get the game to work.

sheltermix

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #345 on: June 04, 2021, 03:30:29 am »
oh, i have a request - feel free to reject this if it would be a hassle and i'm definitely not expecting anything, but would it be possible/simple to make an optional patch for your dq1 that restores the original japanese sprite without the added directional animations? i know it probably sounds silly but i find the crude weirdness of the original unidirectional sprite really charming and tonally appropriate and it would be cool to play with it. if not then again it's no big deal - as i said before i'm really enjoying your work and appreciate it.

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #346 on: June 04, 2021, 11:02:20 am »
oh, i have a request - feel free to reject this if it would be a hassle and i'm definitely not expecting anything, but would it be possible/simple to make an optional patch for your dq1 that restores the original japanese sprite without the added directional animations? i know it probably sounds silly but i find the crude weirdness of the original unidirectional sprite really charming and tonally appropriate and it would be cool to play with it. if not then again it's no big deal - as i said before i'm really enjoying your work and appreciate it.
I can really appreciate this kind of stubborn faithfulness to the original Japanese release. Here's the thing: it wouldn't be too much work to revert the hero sprites to front facing only, but you won't have the directional prompts for the talk command like the Japanese version had. That's the part that would require some heavy lifting to fix.

So! If you want a version with front facing hero and no direction prompts, I can send it to you as a one off, but I won't be including as an optional patch in the release itself unless I can end up restoring the directional prompts at some point in the future. Not something I was planning for, but I'm kind of unpredictable as far as what I get inspired to work on at times.

One last thing to keep in mind with this, even a native Japanese DQ player like Dattebayo who grew up on DQ1 Famicom has an extremely hard time enjoying the game now precisely because of the awkwardness of sliding around like that.

@Everyone

Our twitter account made a note of nejimakipiyo working on Dragon Quest Monsters 2. That doesn't necessarily mean it's our next release. (it might be, it might not be) It just means that they are doing some technical prep work for what we eventually do, as they spearhead the DQM games. Meanwhile, I'm (slowly....) playing around with the main series, as that's what I spearhead.

Some really cool news. I reached out to the user Dracula X, as he has done a ton of NES MMC5 ROM expansion releases, including DW1-DW3, just to see if he had anything in the works with a MMC5 expansion of DQ4. No need to duplicate efforts if that's the case. Let's just say that his response was extremely positive, and that this roadblock with DQ4 Delocalized may be solved in the very near future!

nejimakipiyo

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #347 on: June 04, 2021, 11:26:40 am »
Our twitter account made a note of nejimakipiyo working on Dragon Quest Monsters 2. That doesn't necessarily mean it's our next release. (it might be, it might not be) It just means that they are doing some technical prep work for what we eventually do, as they spearhead the DQM games. Meanwhile, I'm (slowly....) playing around with the main series, as that's what I spearhead.

Maybe I jumped the gun posting there. I just wanted to stir up some excitement and interest. Really, all I did so far was make a table file and begin the steps to extract the text (which I'm probably going to finish today). However, I don't have as much familiarity with this game as I do with the first one. I'll absolutely have to play through in English and Japanese to be able to compare text and ensure I don't miss anything. As well, I'll have to complete a monster library in both languages. This project is far from getting off the ground just yet, but when it does I'll likely be posting about it in my original Dragon Quest Monsters Delocalized thread. https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=30993

Some really cool news. I reached out to the user Dracula X, as he has done a ton of NES MMC5 ROM expansion releases, including DW1-DW3, just to see if he had anything in the works with a MMC5 expansion of DQ4. No need to duplicate efforts if that's the case. Let's just say that his response was extremely positive, and that this roadblock with DQ4 Delocalized may be solved in the very near future!

Of course, with this roadblock out of the way, it's likely we can begin work on Dragon Quest IV soon. I'm looking forward to tackling this project as well!

sheltermix

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #348 on: June 04, 2021, 06:42:30 pm »
I can really appreciate this kind of stubborn faithfulness to the original Japanese release. Here's the thing: it wouldn't be too much work to revert the hero sprites to front facing only, but you won't have the directional prompts for the talk command like the Japanese version had. That's the part that would require some heavy lifting to fix.

So! If you want a version with front facing hero and no direction prompts, I can send it to you as a one off, but I won't be including as an optional patch in the release itself unless I can end up restoring the directional prompts at some point in the future. Not something I was planning for, but I'm kind of unpredictable as far as what I get inspired to work on at times.

understood! well, if you do end up inspired to reimplement directional prompts to use with the front facing hero then i would certainly be interested, but i also totally understand if it isn't a priority or would be too much trouble. thanks for the response <3

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #349 on: June 04, 2021, 08:00:20 pm »
understood! well, if you do end up inspired to reimplement directional prompts to use with the front facing hero then i would certainly be interested, but i also totally understand if it isn't a priority or would be too much trouble. thanks for the response <3
I was just doing some analysis / messing around to get a sense of how difficult of a project that would be. For someone at my skill level as a hacker, the answer is... extraordinarily difficult. It would take me weeks if not months of work, and I'd rather commit that to something like restoring DQ4's Japanese title screen, maps, etc.

If you don't happen to be aware of this direct English translation of the Famicom version, you should probably check it out: http://www.romhacking.net/reviews/5842/#review.

The script felt a bit austere compared to ours, and you'll see a lot of character space limitations because of lack of expanded menus, but you will get to experience the strictly front facing hero along with other limitations of the Japanese version like the password system. Our version is probably going to stay something of a compromise, in the spirit of the Japanese, but with a few upgrades from the international version.

Maidentree

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #350 on: June 12, 2021, 05:32:58 pm »
just a curious question that doesn't really matter; how come the coffins (for the Princess of Moonbrooke and Prince of Cannock/Samaltria respectively) in DQ2 Delocalized have the palette of Prince of Midenhall/Laurasia? just wondering in case you want to know why I asked

Chicken Knife

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Re: Dragon Quest I - IV: Delocalized
« Reply #351 on: June 13, 2021, 10:14:22 am »
just a curious question that doesn't really matter; how come the coffins (for the Princess of Moonbrooke and Prince of Cannock/Samaltria respectively) in DQ2 Delocalized have the palette of Prince of Midenhall/Laurasia? just wondering in case you want to know why I asked
DQ2 Famicom had a different palette color for each coffin matching that of the heroes. I think that the game didn't have separate attribute data for the coffin sprites and just piggy backed on the character sprite attribute data. For the international release, they changed them to ghosts and made them all use the same separate palette.

When I reinstated the coffins in the western version, the program was already set up to assign the same palette data to all three of them. Breaking them out to have separate palette attributes would have taken some complex engineering (for me, anyway). I thought about how every other single Dragon Quest game has matching coffins for each character. DQ3 has the white/green/tan palette, DQ4 has the white/pink/purple palette, etc. It sort of made sense in my mind for DQ2 to use the white/blue/tan palette for all of them. It just feels like a very minor cleaning up of something aesthetically messy and possibly not even intentional.

If anyone wanted to create an optional patch for multi colored coffins, I would probably include, but I'm not personally interested in working on that.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 10:23:36 am by Chicken Knife »