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FF6 Beyond Chaos randomizer

Started by abyssonym, November 17, 2014, 12:29:00 AM

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tvtoon

I have been playing this "R" over the time, while I got amazed by your project idea, sincerely hoping same project for most games, yet I got some suggestion: a flag to take your hacks from the pool. Just the "R" part is enough to the drill for me. :)

Also, I found some bugs!
I can't Sketch while the Relm (that is Umaro in my game), is in my party.

I have got another strange bug while battling the "Intangir" (that is EscoeHur, a Gigas type), after trying to cast X-Magic with Strago (that is... STRAGO!). This enemy got so cheap that it can Sneeze people from the battle! I cannot reproduce this one, maybe some combination did the deal.

Tenkarider

Unless you can exploit some weakness by dealing status, your Intangir might be really hard to kill, if he can sneeze you. Still i don't think that falls under "bugs" group

tvtoon

You didn't understand, the fact that the enemy can Sneeze me is not part of the deal. I try to cast some spell (enter the menu) and the game trashes memory and stuff.
However, it is a bit hard to reproduce this one and I don't know exactly what is the deal.

Kiyoshi Aman

Quote from: abyssonym on March 02, 2015, 01:31:47 PM
Thanks for trying out the randomizer. I think you're right that early encounters can be too tough, especially if you set both "m" and "f" flags. Unfortunately I don't see a lot of what I can do about it... Tek Laser, being a single-target attack, isn't even the worst thing you can encounter at that point. I could make those enemies and encounters fixed so that they don't randomize, but that seems like postponing the inevitable... most people start having trouble a bit later, once they reach Mt. Koltz. My best advice for a situation like this, is to make a mad dash for Figaro Castle and hope the next area will be less brutal, and that Edgar will be a useful addition to the team.

I'm of the opinion that given three goals... "procedurally generated", "well-balanced", and "interesting"... the best that I can hope to achieve is two of those three. So I've been limiting my interventions based on balance to obstacles that are completely insurmountable. The idea behind having surprisingly difficult encounters is that they force you to open your toolbox, as opposed to wiping everything out with known strats... but the downside is that some of them really suck.

I think it's possible, but only if you know when in the game an enemy is going to appear. That would require having 'sliding-scale' ability pools, though, rather than shoving everything into a giant pool.

Quote from: abyssonym on March 02, 2015, 01:31:47 PM
As for the R-Party skill pool, you might be on to something. I'm not really worried about the player having access to revival items, but I would like to create a stronger incentive to use the new abilities. But I'd also like for there to be incentive not to spam them, which is why skills like Spiraler and Merton have been there for this long.

Assigning an MP cost (e.g. 10% of max MP) would probably fix the spam, but at the same time it would necessitate having some MP restoration ability.

abyssonym

Hey tvtoon, thanks for playing the randomizer. I'm glad you're enjoying it. Do you know the seed and version for your randomized game? It would be at the top of the text file. I'd like to see if I can reproduce those bugs too. Also, what do you mean by "a flag to take your hacks from the pool"? Which hacks would you like to remove, for example?

QuoteI think it's possible, but only if you know when in the game an enemy is going to appear. That would require having 'sliding-scale' ability pools, though, rather than shoving everything into a giant pool.
The ability pools are on a sliding scale. The real problem is that M-Tek Armor, a very low level enemy, has Tek Laser as part of its AI, so when the AI gets shuffled, it can end up on a Leafer or something. But like I mentioned before, that's not even half as bad as Megalodoth, a level 1 enemy that can use Blizzard on the entire party. I've tried to make the AI swaps a little more reasonable by ranking monsters according to stats other than just their levels, but this has been a bit of a double-edged sword.


tvtoon

Hi, my game seed is "53..1426777303" (everything enabled).
For those interested, it is most a parallel world in the history (except for Relm being Umaro, Shadow slept with a yeti).

By your hacks I mean stuff like "R-*" abilities, map hacks (Tower of Fanatics), and last boss mod. Even though I like those abilities! :)

Kiyoshi Aman

Just had a thought: maybe put stat-based minimums on abilities and scale the stat ranges based on part of the game?

Tenkarider

It sounds quite out of scope... besides it would kill an important random factor of the randomizer.

abyssonym

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's out of scope... it's just another way of implementing the randomization. But I don't think it would fix anything, because I would still be facing the problem of "how large do I make the stat ranges and ability thresholds?" If they're too lax, the game is unbalanced. If they're too restrictive, the game is predictable. And like very other randomized feature of the game, I would want extreme situations to still be possible, albeit very unlikely.

If I ever revamp the monster AI randomization (which I probably won't) I might use this method, but I would want to use it to increase the range of possibilities for monster AI, not to restrict them.

QuoteBy your hacks I mean stuff like "R-*" abilities, map hacks (Tower of Fanatics), and last boss mod. Even though I like those abilities!
Well, you can actually turn these off with various combinations of flags. "R-*" abilities are part of the 'w' flag, Fanatics Tower is only randomized with the 'd' flag, and the last boss will be different based on various flags. It's not feasible to have a flag for every hack, so I infer what kind of a game the player wants in a lot of ways... I suppose this is hit-or-miss, but I think it's safe to assume that if the player wants an expanded final dungeon, they'll be okay with an expanded Fanatics Tower too.

Kiyoshi Aman

Most roguelikes include a little wiggle factor to allow 'out-of-depth' monsters to show up occasionally, actually; you could probably manage this with an expanded encounter table that 'bleeds' in to the next area slightly.

Tenkarider

Rare powerful monsters through the game? that already happens.

tvtoon

Quote from: abyssonym on March 30, 2015, 07:13:31 PM
Well, you can actually turn these off with various combinations of flags. "R-*" abilities are part of the 'w' flag, Fanatics Tower is only randomized with the 'd' flag, and the last boss will be different based on various flags. It's not feasible to have a flag for every hack, so I infer what kind of a game the player wants in a lot of ways... I suppose this is hit-or-miss, but I think it's safe to assume that if the player wants an expanded final dungeon, they'll be okay with an expanded Fanatics Tower too.
Interesting, I thought the 'w' flag was meant for including enemies' abilities, and that you worked out the final dungeon to be really a random map, so I will leave that as a suggestion for the future.

Kiyoshi Aman

Quote from: Tenkarider on March 31, 2015, 12:04:35 PM
Rare powerful monsters through the game? that already happens.

Not as random encounters, Deathgaze aside, though.

abyssonym

In Beyond Chaos? There are secret bosses that will show up as rare random encounters (regular bosses too) but they tend to be more common in the endgame.

chillyfeez

Quote from: abyssonym on March 31, 2015, 08:29:53 PM
In Beyond Chaos? There are secret bosses that will show up as rare random encounters (regular bosses too) but they tend to be more common in the endgame.

I got one in zozo. It was Number 024 (or whatever... the boss from the magitek research facility). Pain in the neck and took forever to kill, but not impossible. He showed up probably four or five times during the first zozo trip... And of course I didn't have any magic yet (except whatever spells my party was lucky enough to be born with, and Imp, because I got some imp equipment). But figuring out how to beat him in zozo made him super easy once I got to Vector!
Ongoing project: "Final Fantasy IV: A Threat From Within"

Latest Demo

abyssonym

Yeah, I've seen that one happen before. If you get a random boss in Zozo it's pretty bad because a lot of Zozo is one big map. The boss is only a 1/16 encounter rate but if you fight enough encounters you're likely to meet him. If you play with save states though, you can force the 1/16 battle on a different map to "skip" the boss.

tvtoon

After finishing the game exploring part, I felt that it was a great experience. Anyway, two more things lacking: the text guide should be more complete, with the items stats and properties (I just discovered that the FakeMustache doesn't have Control, so I can't get some Lore, and another basic one I used has X-Magic property included), and later the battle script from enemies; there should be some "primary" option to just shuffle values, without going straight "random", meaning it is possible to every Esper boost be "Vigor + 1".

As I understand, the Esper magic listing works like that but the Esper boost one doesn't, there should be some consistency among choices.

abyssonym

Well, magic isn't "shuffled" but spell coverage is pretty much guaranteed. I actually did this because at the time I was having serious concerns about not being able to complete the game without having access to all the spells... I'm not entirely sure that's still the case, but a full magic list is nice to look at, anyway.

For the most part I agree with your recommendations, though I'm still on the fence about esper boosts. IMO the only esper boosts that really matter are +MPwr, +HP, +LV, and -LV... on the one hand, yeah, not having +MPwr makes the game a lot harder. But I think that one of the good things about playing a randomizer is that you lose access to resources you would normally rely on. So I'm still not sure I want to have full coverage for esper boosts.

As for implementing the other stuff, some features like guaranteed Lore coverage are deceptively complicated. So I'd like them to be in the randomizer eventually, but I'm not sure how long it'll take.

Tenkarider

LV -1 loses it's meaning if you don't have some variety among esper boosts: i'm not agree about not having full coverage for esper boosts.

abyssonym

Hey all! Updates haven't been as frequent as they were, but I've been quietly working on BC in the background. Version 54, released today, has a lot of minor adjustments based on user feedback. Here's a summarized changelog:
Quoteworking decompression and recompression module has been added
randomized the opening sequence
make ending credits shorter, so that the music syncs up like in the japanese version
add bingo card generator
much greater coverage of enemies, more rare encounters appear as MiaBs
tiers 1-3 of the final battle are less predictable
kefka's phase 1 AI has been shortened to make the battle more difficult
more custom items
more interesting berserkers
r-wild is now r-chaos, which will covers all 256 skills
almost guaranteed esper boost coverage
more possible names for characters
chests that are upgradeable are indicated in the guide
guide shows more detailed monster info
guide shows blitz inputs and ability-changing relic info
guide doesn't show info for abilities that cannot be obtained
interface advises the user to wait
misc bugfixes and balance tweaks