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Author Topic: Physical ROMs Cartridges  (Read 7732 times)

Spider-Man-Frog

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Physical ROMs Cartridges
« on: June 20, 2014, 08:42:45 pm »
I am looking for physical ROMs that I can play on a Gameboy, DS, N64, SNES, NES, Wii, GameCube, or PS2. I am new to ROM hacks and I want to see what it is like to actually play a ROM hack on a video game system. I have a strong feeling that I will like to play it a lot more on the video game system and I also want to collect ROM hacks. Can someone please tell me where I can find ROM hacks?
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henke37

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2014, 09:16:24 pm »
You see that link on the navbar labeled "ROM Hacks"? Click it.

Gideon Zhi

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2014, 09:21:08 pm »
Is there any chance we could add this to the FAQ? "We don't support repros. If you want to play a game on hardware, buy an Everdrive" or something along those lines.

BlackDog61

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2014, 04:01:43 am »
Is there any chance we could add this to the FAQ? "We don't support repros. If you want to play a game on hardware, buy an Everdrive" or something along those lines.

+1

jonwvsu

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2014, 10:22:35 am »
I do enjoy playing on hardware; that's why I have a Powerpak for the NES, an Everdrive MD for the Genesis, and an R4 for the DS. But just out of curiosity, why doesn't this community support reproductions?

Nightcrawler

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2014, 10:38:17 am »
We could add such a thing to the FAQ if someone writes something in the form of a question and an answer that we can put there.
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FAST6191

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2014, 04:39:54 pm »
I do enjoy playing on hardware; that's why I have a Powerpak for the NES, an Everdrive MD for the Genesis, and an R4 for the DS. But just out of curiosity, why doesn't this community support reproductions?

There seem to be a variety of reasons. The big three seem to be
1) ROM hacking is already legally dubious, though the few developers quizzed on it seem to think along the lines of "if they want to play at that level of tech then carry on lads". However being associated with those that outright commit paid piracy is something you probably want to avoid when you are in this situation.
2) A good chunk of the repro set seem content to take the work done by hackers and use it without so much as a passing nod, we have even had a few get angry when we do not want to help them strip out hacker added credits and the like. Most would probably not take the money if it was offered but that matters little. I do love their attempts to be covert when trying to ask for help removing things though.
3) A lot of the repro community is toxic, the amount of infighting, egos, hidden nonsense and more is astounding by any measure of their feeder fields-- electronics, ROM hacking, game playing... none of which are known for being universally cheerful in the first place.

Other people seem to dislike the lack of technical skill displayed (do note though there seems to be a fair overlap between electrical engineering and ROM hacking, going by the general skill of game console modding types it is about on par) and that a lot of repros seem to be done by gutting a game and putting a new chip in. Likewise a lot of hacks are not exactly hardware safe, it is better these days as we all use more accurate emulators but there is still the odd hack and several legacy ones.

On the FAQ thing...
"Can I play games on real hardware, I have seen some people sell things called "reproductions" with things I see elsewhere as downloadable ROM hacks."
Depending upon the hack and the system you can often play games on real hardware. Those cartridges you see are called reproductions and are also known as "repros", they are not endorsed by the most in the ROM hacking community and certainly not by ROMhacking.net. Said repros often use the work of hackers without permissions or credit given, they may use older versions of the hacks and not all hacks work properly on real hardware.
If you want to play on real hardware, and the hack supports it, you are encouraged instead to look at modifying your system with a mod chip or getting a so called "flash cart" for the system in question. Any system you see a ROM hack for will usually have a means by which to play modified games, the main exceptions being some of the newer consoles where hacks may be harder to perform.

Isao Kronos

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2014, 05:47:09 pm »
i wouldn't even put in a nod to flash carts, just say "we don't support repros" end of story

puzzledude

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2014, 11:44:44 am »
Quote
I do enjoy playing on hardware; that's why I have a Powerpak for the NES, an Everdrive MD for the Genesis, and an R4 for the DS. But just out of curiosity, why doesn't this community support reproductions?
How would you feel, if some would be sleeping with your wife. This is exactly what a soled carted rom-hack is. Someone is using and abusing our work to fill their pockets with money, making the just-legal IPS patches into an obvious illegal piracy. And the sad thing is that in US, there are stores who are selling them.

The rom hack is mainly owned by the companies who made the original game, from which the romhack was made (mostly Nintendo, since their games are being modified a lot) and co-owned by the actual person, who made the modifications.

So what is a repro cart guy. A nobody, who is abusing the work of others, with absolutely no rights on anything he is selling. He doesn't own the original programing, all the modifications, the printed artwork, the manuals. He doesn't even own the physical cart and chip, the game is on, since a repro requires another cart to be destroyed first.

There are 1000 ways to play a romhack for free (personal use only): pc emulators, wii emulators, PSP emulators, and if someone likes real hardware: flashcarts. A repro is the worst thing.

To buy a romhack on a repro cart is the same as stabbing the person, who made the romhack, in the back. It is a great disrespect towards us, the romhackers, who brought you the game and towards our readme, that we don't support any monetary transaction connected with our work and no roms (and a cart is a rom). And repros are being soled for 100 dollars and more a piece (witout us even being informed).



Quote
I am looking for physical ROMs that I can play on a Gameboy, DS, N64, SNES, NES, Wii, GameCube, or PS2. I am new to ROM hacks and I want to see what it is like to actually play a ROM hack on a video game system. I have a strong feeling that I will like to play it a lot more on the video game system and I also want to collect ROM hacks. Can someone please tell me where I can find ROM hacks?
A too dumb question to be answered, but still. You are on the site called Rom hacking, obviously you will find them in archives on this site. But I doubt, you will manage, since there are only patches here (not actual roms).
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 11:51:09 am by puzzledude »

Gideon Zhi

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2014, 03:35:48 pm »
How would you feel, if some would be sleeping with your wife. This is exactly what a soled carted rom-hack is.

It's more like your wife is selling herself on the streets, then using that money to get wasted on hard drugs behind your back. But decent analogy.

jonwvsu

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2014, 11:33:37 pm »
I hope I won't be shunned for this, but I do have two repros. I bought SMB2j because it was more approachable than an FDS. And I bought Mario Adventure because it was $40 rather that $130 for the Powerpak. Looking back, obviously I should have bought the Powerpak first.  I know I wouldn't want to get tricked into buying a repro of NWC when I thought I was buying an original. I understand that the material that people hack is copywritten, and people need to be credited for their contributions to these works. What these people do keeps me going. But the way I see it, its sort of like that rich kid in high school that had a cd burner. He was a dick, no doubt, but I wanted to listen to Sublime in my car, so I paid him. He made no intellectual contribution to the piece of art other than his terrible handwriting, but he performed a service; albeit an illegal service.

I'm afraid, in this day and age, if someone releases intellectual property freely to the internet, people can do with it what they wish. That being said, I do not condone removing credits. When Mario Adventure 3 (Koopa Kingdom Escape) is released I will ask Dahrk Daiz who he prefers me to buy a cart-only repro from, but I will get a copy. I don't want to sound like a butt, and I know how the internet retail community can be caustic to put it nicely. But I think the other half of rom-hacking is wanting people to play your game (the first half being awesome enough to do it in the first place). If I poured my soul into a game, and I saw people selling it without my consent, I would be both honored and irritated. (Honored that you'd want to sleep with my wife, but irritated because, "HEY, That's MY wife!")

If I had a hack, I would want people to play it any way the could. Releasing on RHDN doesn't net me any profit, and neither does watching others burn carts. I don't want to burn EEPROMS so I don't. If others do, that's their prerogative, as long as their quality control doesn't make me look bad. Do you guys have any repro-ers with morals that you do approve of?

Bregalad

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2014, 03:00:26 am »
Quote
Other people seem to dislike the lack of technical skill displayed (do note though there seems to be a fair overlap between electrical engineering and ROM hacking, going by the general skill of game console modding types it is about on par) and that a lot of repros seem to be done by gutting a game and putting a new chip in.
Although I fully agree with your other 3 points I'd put this reason as #1. Repro people sell the game high for the "long time and hard labour" it takes them to make it. But, depending on the hack/translation, it might have taken the romhacker 10x to 400x more time to make the hack or translation, and they don't ask a single penny for it.

You should definitely mention those 4 points in the FAQ.


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How would you feel, if some would be sleeping with your wife. This is exactly what a soled carted rom-hack is.
This is a good analogy actually. However, someone paying $100 to someone else to sleep with your wife is probably a better analogy.

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I would be both honored and irritated. (Honored that you'd want to sleep with my wife, but irritated because, "HEY, That's MY wife!")
That's pretty much it. However, when it sells for $100, the irritation definitely overtakes the honour.

tryphon

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2014, 03:09:50 am »
How would you feel, if some would be sleeping with your wife.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I find it's a very bad (and quite machist) analogy :

1) I don't consider my wife as a product I've made
2) If my wife were to sleep with someone else, I hope she'd be willing. I've never heard my hacks express such feelings :)

But I agree that making (too much) money with someone else's work is despicable.

FAST6191

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2014, 07:47:52 am »
Although I fully agree with your other 3 points I'd put this reason as #1. Repro people sell the game high for the "long time and hard labour" it takes them to make it. But, depending on the hack/translation, it might have taken the romhacker 10x to 400x more time to make the hack or translation, and they don't ask a single penny for it

But but but they have to make boxart, print boxes and print a cart label.

As with tryphon I am not feeling the analogies given, partially because they do not seem so fitting and partially because I have never really been that attached to any of my works. Granted I do not feel terribly strongly about the matter at hand in the first place; I have no desire to aid the repro set, common courtesy would mean I do not anyway, or even see them succeed but going so far as to personally maintain an active hostility seems like a waste of time.

Also I probably should edit it but above where I said about overlap between electrical engineering and ROM hacking I meant more those doing it -- a surprising amount of ROM hackers seem to be fairly far into the electrical engineering world (be they computer hardware as far as being able to play with an oscilloscope, actual electrical engineering or those that have had cause to otherwise gain some fair skills in that world). Even among those that might not then the software made certainly feels the same.

On repro types I can get along with. Obviously those that want to make carts for their homebrew (and any that is technically licensed to do so-- straight GPL would probably OK with it actually) I am good with, I believe there have been a few, including some of the earliest ROM hackers, that actually got permission from the original game devs to do things and those that would merge a game genie type tool with an original cart (basically making a patch in hardware, hopefully one that could be updated) I could find agreeable. Those that would try to trick people into thinking they have something special are right out and those that would claim any kind of legitimacy are also not likely to be those I share a beer with.

Gutting an original cart, original hardware (I met similar lines of thought where people were taking SNES pads and making them USB controllers via the likes of teensy++) and similar things I do not find objectionable in the slightest. I can kind of see where people are coming from but it is disturbingly close to the mindsets that lead to hoarding and the higher echelons of collecting so I push against it.

puzzledude

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2014, 04:23:10 pm »
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I'm afraid, in this day and age, if someone releases intellectual property freely to the internet, people can do with it what they wish.
As long as the freely published property REMAINS FREE (of money). And (by the way), we release patches, we don't own the entire game (nobody does).


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But but but they have to make boxart, print boxes and print a cart label.
Nobody asked them to do that. The patch is the final product. Nothing else is necessary. Any further action is abuse.

Another analogy. I release a romhack in a form of the patch. This was thought as the final released product, that was meant to be used for personal use only, to patch it to the existing original rom, and play the altered version for free on emulators or flashcarts (for free!).

Carting this and selling it, is the same as if Picasso would start editing the works of Rembrandt, redoing the beautiful baroque-style paintings into cubism-style grotesques. Who asked him to do that?


What bothers me the most is the You tube bragging actually. "Look I bought a romhack on a cart. Watch my video and like it." It should be: "Look, I'm dumb, I got scammed by the cart sellers and bought an illegal product for 100 dollars, which I could play for free on flashcarts. Nintendo should kick my but and send me to jail, for publicly bragging about my piracy acts."

Another analogy. You tube bragging about un-boxing romhacks is the same as if someone would buy some heroin and show it on You tube.

I really don't understand, why Nintendo doesn't send some samurais over to the repro-cart shops to do their thing.


PS
Zelda Parallel Worlds Remodel, which I remodeled a while back, was carted 1 month after the release (despite our lovable warning not to do that). One of the first carts to be soled in Europe, was made in France and the ebay offers stopped at 305 euros (=about 400 dollars). This is unfortunately not a joke.


Bregalad

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2014, 04:31:22 pm »
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Nintendo should kick my but and send me to jail, for publicly bragging about my piracy acts.
Putting pepople in jail definitely would be overdoing it (I don't think if that comment was supposed to be taken seriously, I guess no but I'm not sure), but sending a significant fee to the repro-guys definitely would be a great idea.
As for their "custommers", well the outrageous price they bought this stuff is already their fee.

FAST6191

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2014, 05:02:23 pm »
But but but they have to make boxart, print boxes and print a cart label.

Nobody asked them to do that. The patch is the final product. Nothing else is necessary. Any further action is abuse.

Carting this and selling it, is the same as if Picasso would start editing the works of Rembrandt, redoing the beautiful baroque-style paintings into cubism-style grotesques. Who asked him to do that?

I fear your sarcasm detector suffered a malfunction.

Rembrant died in 1669 and it was 1881 by the time Picasso was born, that probably makes it fall outside copyright even by modern US standards. Beyond that though such things probably count as a homage and well nobody asked us to turn the beautiful Japanese text into English or to alter the vision of the developers by fixing what we think are bugs but in fact are features.

snarfblam

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2014, 05:43:57 pm »
I fear your sarcasm detector suffered a malfunction.

There is no sarcasm on the internet. It's particularly hard for non-native English speakers to pick up to the subtle cues.

I'm not addressing the FAQ or site's policies, but the general disdain for repro makers. It ultimately stems from the repro makers being disingenuous, inconsiderate, and selfish. Why it is that way? I don't know. There are exceptions, but on the whole their reputation is well-earned.

henke37

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Re: Physical ROMs Cartridges
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2014, 06:58:27 am »
I really don't understand, why Nintendo doesn't send some samurais over to the repro-cart shops to do their thing.

The samurais are busy dealing with the pirates who make unauthorized carts for retail games.