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Author Topic: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Solved)  (Read 18750 times)

Pennywise

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2014, 12:37:38 pm »
Well, have you tried loading an SJIS table searching for the text?

Bob Liu

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2014, 04:12:24 pm »
I though you'd need a custom table made specific for the game to find the hex's before doing something like that.

Pennywise

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2014, 04:46:13 pm »
ASCII and SJIS are a standard file encoding that a lot of non-ROM based systems use. It's fairly typical to find a game that uses uncompressed SJIS text.

Bob Liu

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2014, 05:21:12 pm »
ASCII and SJIS are a standard file encoding that a lot of non-ROM based systems use. It's fairly typical to find a game that uses uncompressed SJIS text.

You could be onto something, you certainly know more than me so could you help me out. Im guessing that you load a table file into your hex editor and then the gobbility goop at the right turns into Kanji, I haven't done that before but could you give me a SJIS table to test this out.

Nightcrawler

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2014, 05:52:06 pm »
ASCII and SJIS are a standard file encoding that a lot of non-ROM based systems use. It's fairly typical to find a game that uses uncompressed SJIS text.

Technically, they are standard character encodings. The relevancy of this distinction is so Bob is clear that this would only decode text in the ROM, and not any other data. :)

ASCII you can already view in most any hex editor without a table. S-JIS can be viewed with one of the available table files we already have here in our documents section.
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VicVergil

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2014, 08:18:28 pm »
ASCII and SJIS are a standard file encoding that a lot of non-ROM based systems use. It's fairly typical to find a game that uses uncompressed SJIS text.
You could be onto something, you certainly know more than me so could you help me out.

That escalated quickly, that's for sure.
Knowing about Shift-JIS/Ascii  =/= Knowing how to edit a Saturn game to:
1) find the text, and if compressed decompress it
2) adding support for English letters if unavailable
3) making the English show up correctly
4) resolving the space limitations (learning about pointers)

You can easily try with any Japanese game and see for yourself with
1) a hex editor (windhex, hexecute)
2) a Shift-JIS table (look up the utilities/documents sections here)
And lo and behold, you'll actually find Japanese text appearing. It's not rocket science.
Computers are known to encode Japanese text that way.

Someone knowing about this can't be expected to know how to hack a Saturn game.
Even official Saturn localizations (like Policenauts) were shut down because of technical difficulties!
How many fan-translations of Saturn games are out there in the wild?

Please try to get in touch with capable people who are interested in said game (but with it being a licensed game AND a Visual novel, you'd have trouble).
Or just become a capable person by working your way up from the bottom with EASIER games.

Try DS games for example , they are far easier to hack and translate (be familiar with hex editors, and maybe even pointers)
And then try NES and SNES games (to get familiar with tile edition/ map edition/tilemolester tool)
Try learning ASM, tracing, breakpoint and do a Variable Width font or change a compressed graphic to a Japanese game on those systems after learning ASM for said platforms.

THEN try modifying the Vagrant Story Japanese iso (to be familiar with how isos work), then something more complicated on PS1/PS2
THEN learn mips and whatever assembly language is used on the Saturn, and get started on that one.

Try on the Japanese versions, obviously.

Try to produce a proof-of-concept working introduction with English letters and text and localized graphics for each game you practice on.

PS: I can' hack Sega Saturn games, because I lack the ability and the interest.

Bob Liu

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2014, 10:35:18 am »
I'll download one of those S-JIS tables and see what happens, it seems that there is a ton of stuff I should possibly do before attempting a Saturn translation. I already have experience with Game boy and Game Gear translating though, I have noticed the differences between the two consoles code and how to work with it for text insertion purposes. Anyhow this Martian Successor Nadesico game has English font in it, I just don't know how to first get the hex's for them and build a table. My usual trick was relative searcher but so far that only seems to work for Game boy and Game Gear games, probably others around the same time as well.

I have tried e-mailing everyone who I found that has experience but as of yet none have responded, it may be hard and long to translate this but im willing to put in the effort. I just need an offset of an early text screen and will the Yabause (Sega Saturn Emulator) Decompiler I know we can make progress, I just don't know how to use the decompiler myself and hope that one of you guys can help me out with this.

Pennywise

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2014, 11:13:25 am »
You might as well give up the hope that someone is going to help you with the Saturn and this game. There's not enough skilled people and interest for it to happen. Personally I think GHANMI gve you excellent advice, which I'd follow if I were you. If you spend the time, eventually you will know how to hack the Saturn.

Bob Liu

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2014, 11:35:48 am »
Maybe so but I'd still like to try my luck, anyhow I loaded up a table with the iso loaded and nothing was any more clearer than before. I noticed some stuff changing but it was still a mess.

CyberWarriorX

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2014, 11:38:37 am »
Just want to weigh in. First off, I won't be helping out with the hacking. But I can provide some advice and maybe some technically knowledge.

If you do a relative search, make sure it's with a search program that allows for 16-bits per character text. Pretty much all Saturn games are  using 16-bit except for odd stuff like menu's, stats, etc. Also, I've noticed a lot of games try to shrink down the font size by removing a lot of kanji. Which may affect character ordering. Better to relative search kana or romanji where possible. It's also quite possible the game may be using text compression.

If you want to shrink down the search area, just dump lwram(0x00200000-0x002FFFFF) and hwram (0x06000000-0x060FFFFF) areas and search through that.

Sometimes if all else fails the only other way of finding anything is to work your way back from what's being rendered to the frame buffer. So start by toggling vdp1/vdp2 screen layers in order to determine where the text is being drawn to, then use Yabause's(or other emulator equivalent) vdp1/vdp2 debug information to determine where in ram it's being drawn. Then go from there.

One last piece of advice I have is be prepared for the long haul. This is not going to be a weekend project. If you're really serious you could possibly spend even a year or more depending on how much time you have to dedicate. You may also have to learn a bit about the hardware, especially SH2 assembly. That being said, I don't really think Saturn deserves the bad rap it gets for being apparently hard, at least from a hacking angle. SH2 assembly is easy enough to learn and unless you decide to go really deep in the rabbit hole you won't really have to deal with the more difficult aspects.

Also as an aside, #yabause on freenode has been a bit of magnet for people hacking around on Saturn games. If you ever get yourself to a point where you want to just hang out with other people interested in the same stuff, you're welcome to come. Just don't be the kind of person who only just comes in demanding for help.

Bob Liu

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2014, 04:32:58 pm »
I was using windhex to search for English text that I saw in the game such as the images above with 172cm and R&D. I don't know if that searches for 16-bit characters so could you possibly recommend me a program that does just to be sure, I was only relative searching for English text before as you said Kanji searching so I'll do that too. Also when you say dump lwram and such do mean in the debugger section of the emulator.

I spend roughly 2 hours + on stuff like this daily so hopefully I'll get the hang of the sega saturn stuff, I am ready to commit a long time to translate this game as I really want to play it. I just need help to start me off, thanks guys for putting up with me so far anyway.

BlackDog61

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2014, 09:15:06 am »
Bob,

I think you have to try harder. :) hat I mean is - you said you don't know what's in the files. Come on man - your brain has to be worth more than that! Examples:
- some files/directories start with "CG" - this screams "Computer Graphics". Open them with TiledGGD and - hey! These are images indeed!
- some files have "BGM" in their names - could they be background music?

It's important to try and understand what's where, because text is sometimes a little tougher to find than other data ('cause you have to run these searches you talked about in many files). So finding "where not to search" is useful. You can concentrate elsewhere with that.

So here's a little push forward. Now you do the work.
- root contains SJIS quick text for description of the game (adventure+simulation)
- CG contains images with backgrounds (one with embedded Jap text) -
   => expect each ".b" file to contain 32 bits per pixel graphics
- SCG0 contains chapter title screens (with text as graphics)
- SCGR contains short text in graphics (anything like "the end" or something?)
- SCGQ contains graphics again, but with KCT extension (probably animated graphics, like FLC)
- SCG* contain other graphics
- root KCT's seem of different types:
   xxxx (numbers) look like graphics as part of animations
   BGM* should be background music, obviously, but not sure of the format
   IDOU, KABE, LOAD = graphics (not sure if it's an animated thing)
   LOD01, LOD03 = graphics "now loading"
   MEM* = image with some kind of warning about the RAM (and text)
   OMAKE= (160 pixels wide) image without text
   TITLE, OPTION, SAVE = background for these menus?
   SOUKAN contains a few big characters in image (to be translated)

Missing bits to be explored:
- SIN files = ? (one of them is called story, you should check there!)
- ACM files = ? (that's a standard for audio but Format factory & VLC won't play these)
- AC2 files = ?
- BIN files = anything, you should check these too
- DAT files = same as bin files, though the names have meanings (ex: LOGO does not sound too text-y, does it?)
- WATASLABS = ?

Bob Liu

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2014, 10:31:58 am »
I knd of have a clue no what's what but that's really it, I tried opening up the files with that program you mentioned but it appeared all weird as if it didn't work properly. I was wondering, can you find an offset by Relative searching using Japanese text as so far I have only done it for English. If so I could try that and try to find an offset, I just need to know of a program which can do that and in 16 bit text.

CyberWarriorX

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2014, 10:50:37 am »
I was using windhex to search for English text that I saw in the game such as the images above with 172cm and R&D. I don't know if that searches for 16-bit characters so could you possibly recommend me a program that does just to be sure, I was only relative searching for English text before as you said Kanji searching so I'll do that too. Also when you say dump lwram and such do mean in the debugger section of the emulator.

From Yabause Menu: Tools -> Transfer. Make sure "Download" is selected and enter filename and the address range for lwram. Repeat the same process for hwram.

I knd of have a clue no what's what but that's really it, I tried opening up the files with that program you mentioned but it appeared all weird as if it didn't work properly. I was wondering, can you find an offset by Relative searching using Japanese text as so far I have only done it for English. If so I could try that and try to find an offset, I just need to know of a program which can do that and in 16 bit text.

Yabause has a relative search function if you need it. From the menu: Debug -> Memory Editor -> Search Memory. Select "16-bit Relative value(s)".

Bob Liu

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2014, 11:47:27 am »
It doesn't go past 99% when relative searching 16 bit text, maybe it's what I searched though. Anyhow what is lwram and hwram, tried searching but couldn't find any info. Also what will dumping them give me.

CyberWarriorX

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2014, 11:56:36 am »
Try shrinking the memory search range. Like 00200000-00610000

lwram/hwram: low work ram/high work ram. Basically if text is being stored in ram, it's going to be in one of those two spots.  If anything it helps in cases where you're dealing with like 600 MB of files and the location of the text isn't obvious.

BlackDog61

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2014, 12:08:49 pm »
I tried opening up the files with that program you mentioned but it appeared all weird as if it didn't work properly.

Just to give you the step-by-step for that, for next time, even though I guess you are going to follow the good advice from CyberwarriorX ;)

Launch TiledGGD
File->Open Graphics-> select OMAKE1.KCT
Image->Format->32bit
(maximize window and zoom a bit in with ctrl +)
Press the right arrow key, increasing the width of the image, until you read on the right-hand-side info "panel: 160x..."
=> The image should be readable now, although with weird colours
Increase the height of the image to your heart's contents with the "down" arrow key.

You can move further in the file (if it does not fit in your window) view by scrolling with the page up/down keys.
Note: The scrolling can be slow, so be sure to change Image->Skip size-> (Width) rows

Bob Liu

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2014, 04:52:05 pm »
Yea I can see the image now, thanks. This is the image that is in one of the menu screens, I tried looking at the font file but it was all messed up looking even when I fiddled around with the settings.



Try shrinking the memory search range. Like 00200000-00610000

lwram/hwram: low work ram/high work ram. Basically if text is being stored in ram, it's going to be in one of those two spots.  If anything it helps in cases where you're dealing with like 600 MB of files and the location of the text isn't obvious.
Ok I did that memory transfer thing with the search range you said and now have a bin file around 4mb, probably sounding like an idiot but what do I do with it. Do I relative search for text or something like that, im just unsure. Also wondering about save states, could I do anything with one of those.

Oh yea just wanted to mention that this game doesn't fully work with Yabause, it fails to load the minigame after each mission just giving me a black screen. SSF loads it but stalled similarly at the 4th mission, to get past that on SSF I just opened and then closed the disc drive skipping the minigame. Just though you might want to know about that.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 10:33:28 am by Bob Liu »

Bob Liu

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2014, 10:34:12 am »
Oh yea, good news. Forget about all that other stuff, I was researching DS translating and used crystaltile 2 to open a ds game and the Japanese text was visible. I then though would it work for the Nadesico game and guess what, it did. I can now gather the hex's and change text in the game, just for a test I changed the PM in the load/save screen. If it worked for a Saturn game then I can pretty much guess people can get at those games people have always want translated. Has anyone else noticed that crystaltile 2 can do this, I really wish I found this out sooner.

kirkrunner

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Re: Martian Successor Nadesico Sega Saturn Dating Sim (Help Needed)
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2014, 01:19:42 pm »
thats awesome news, i always dreamed of having a few import rpg's translated for the sega saturn, dating sims are not for me but thats just me, keep up the good work.