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Author Topic: Project II: Final Fantasy IV  (Read 162940 times)

vivify93

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #660 on: February 15, 2019, 08:23:24 pm »
Nuh-uh. They have to be playing an older version.

Edit - Looking at their review, apparently they thought this line has memes?



Are there any memes there? I'm not too familiar with popular memes these days. "Stand guard" is a reference to RPGe's FFV.



And as far as I'm aware, that's not a meme like "Moms are tough" or "Ha ha ha ha ha!" I did contact them to ask them what version they were playing, though.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 08:54:11 pm by vivify93 »
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Rodimus Primal

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #661 on: February 15, 2019, 11:50:46 pm »
Nuh-uh. They have to be playing an older version.

Edit - Looking at their review, apparently they thought this line has memes?



Are there any memes there? I'm not too familiar with popular memes these days. "Stand guard" is a reference to RPGe's FFV.



And as far as I'm aware, that's not a meme like "Moms are tough" or "Ha ha ha ha ha!" I did contact them to ask them what version they were playing, though.

I thought we worked out any memes you had unknowingly added in like "Who the hell do you think I am?" which in both PII and Namingway is no longer in it.

As for Stand Guard, I know it was more of a connection for you to have that in. The You OK?! is more of a spacing issue to my understanding.

I changed that in Namingway though. Since I moved Edward and Anna's Ghost lines to Bank 3, it gave me some extra space in Bank 1. Here's how that line reads in Namingway:

Soldier: Agh!
Cecil: Are you OK?!
Soldier: We've got more
 incoming!

Cecil: Dammit!

If this person didn't even play past that point, it is like they are saying they actually didn't play the game at all since its right in the intro.

Spooniest

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #662 on: February 16, 2019, 07:25:22 am »
"Stand Guard" is from FFV RPGe. It's not a meme, it's a reference to the original Fan Translation of all Fan Translations. It's what Bartz says every time a boss is about to attack.  :woot!:

chillyfeez

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #663 on: February 16, 2019, 10:08:38 am »
"Stand Guard" is from FFV RPGe. It's not a meme, it's a reference to the original Fan Translation of all Fan Translations. It's what Bartz says every time a boss is about to attack.  :woot!:
Technically that makes it a meme, intentionally created (or perpetuated?) by PII, but given the more broad cultural understanding of memes, it seems silly to me that a reviewer would call this line out as such and I would expect that most people would not recognize the meme-ness of this line.
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vivify93

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #664 on: February 16, 2019, 03:59:40 pm »
If this person didn't even play past that point, it is like they are saying they actually didn't play the game at all since its right in the intro.
You have a point. I do know that Spooniest and I sat down and combed through the script for v2.40 to weed out any unsavory lines, references, memes, and all. The game should pretty much just be... game.

Technically that makes it a meme, intentionally created (or perpetuated?) by PII, but given the more broad cultural understanding of memes, it seems silly to me that a reviewer would call this line out as such and I would expect that most people would not recognize the meme-ness of this line.
I dunno, I've never thought of references as memes. That'd mean Shiva being an ice-elemental summon is a meme, and the Ragnarok being an ultimate weapon is a meme. I think of memes more like as "This isn't even my final form", "It's over 9,000", or "'My job here is done.' 'But you didn't do anything!' *woosh*"
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chillyfeez

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #665 on: February 16, 2019, 05:18:42 pm »
For the record, I don't know what any of those memes are. A meme is not a reference, per se. A meme is a phrase or concept that is repeated and copied across media. So, Bartz says it a lot in ffv and because of that, we are expected to recognize its appearance in FFIV. Its inclusion in PII actually elevates it to meme status.
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Digitsie

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #666 on: February 16, 2019, 10:50:44 pm »
Wait, the Stand Guard hack wasn't a meme?

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/794/

vivify93

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #667 on: February 17, 2019, 02:51:35 am »
No, it's not. It was Spooniest's goal to rewrite FFVI with a more extensive script. I don't think he was intending to make it memetic.
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Spooniest

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #668 on: February 19, 2019, 11:47:39 am »
This entire (mini-)discussion would have required far more devotion to 'purity' than I was or am willing to muster. I mean, I wanted to make a re-write of FF6, and my idea at the time was, "None of this is legal anyway, and I shouldn't be required to hold fast to the text of the original game."

Basically, you are toying with other people's intellectual property for s(*#'s and giggles, you don't need to be writing polemics about 'staying true to the original script.' I took what we call "artistic license" with it.

Short answer: Didn't care. :) Had fun. Would do it again.

chillyfeez

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #669 on: February 20, 2019, 10:40:46 am »
I don't think anybody was questioning your intentions in creating your FFVI hack. It was just being used as "exhibit A" of the meme-hood of the phrase "stand guard."

I just finished watching season 2 of The Dragon Prince on Netflix, and there is a moment mid season when one of the main characters utters the phrase, "one does not simply walk into Zadia." My eyes rolled a bit, because that is instantly recognizable as a meme. Nobody specifically asked me to recall the line in LotR, but I recognized the phrase and the origin immediately. And I'm not a huge fan of the movie series. I know the phrase because of the meme. But a little picture with block letters is not a requirement for a meme. The internet didn't invent memes, it simply raised public awareness of their existence in the larger world of media tropes.

And honestly, vivi, whether it's a meme or not, I don't think there is any problem with its inclusion in your script. That is exactly the situation in which a person would logically use the phrase "stand guard," and afaik it only exists as a meme because of its use in SNES-era final fantasy. So if the reviewer doesn't like it, what-@#$%-ing-ever. You can't and won't please everyone.
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8.bit.fan

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #670 on: February 20, 2019, 01:17:27 pm »
Just saw the review and I don't get this at all.
Call me out of touch but even if the hack uses memes(?) or references, what's the problem if it works well with a particular translation?

As far as I'm concerned, this is a fantastic version of the game and like chillyfeez said: "you can't and won't please everyone." Too true.

Keep up the great work! :)

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Chicken Knife

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #671 on: February 20, 2019, 02:20:16 pm »
Yeah, that review was nonsense. I played some of this version yesterday and thought the writing was fabulous. I'm very much looking forward to a full playthrough.

Spooniest

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #672 on: February 24, 2019, 12:00:11 am »
I think that part of some especially enthusiastic subsections of any given fandom are going to have these ideas in their head, that there is a 'true' 'right' 'pure' version of the game's story and every line has to be exactly what Hironobu Sakaguchi and Yoshinori Kitase and whoever else wrote for these games capital O Originally thought of. It's a kind of narrow view of storytelling, in my opinion.

They don't bother to think of the possibility, for instance, that the line might have been 'originally' a completely different wording that they later decided to re-write, or that the line might have been intended to be re-written at some point, but there was not enough time/money/either/or in the production schedule/budget for the change they wanted to be made.

If they went after the fact and spoke about these changes, it would look bad even in Hollywood, California, to say nothing of how insular and 'afraid of making waves' Japanese culture is. In addition, and here is a big giant kicker for anyone who ever wanted to do this (mod 90s FF games et al):

No translation will ever be perfect, and the only real way to read these stories is in their native language with cultural knowledge of why the words mean what they mean. In addition, it is impossible, humanly impossible, to make an old game new again.

No matter which way you look at it, there will only ever be one 'true' English release of FF4: the version that came out first, when the game first got localized in English. "Defence of the castle must be tighten immediately" and all. That is what I played as a 13 year old kid, that was the version they spend the money to put out in the USA, and everything else (even their official rewrites) are simply intended to evoke nostalgia for that moment in gaming history.

This (romhacking/fan translating) is for fun, far more than it is ever going to be important for archival or historical purposes. And while I can't speak for anyone else, I personally do not need the script to be my idea of 'perfect' for the game to be fun, engaging and a deeply personal part of my formative years.

That said, it was tremendously fun to help out viv with his re-touching of the script, and I would do it again in a heartbeat, and I am proud of our work together. It is just some fun, though. I don't consider it to be, in any way, shape, or form, a replacement for FFII US on the Super Nintendo. Those memories are etched into my brain forever, and I thought the typos were fun too.

vivify93

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #673 on: February 25, 2019, 02:49:06 pm »
So, Crow was kind enough to release an IPS of Lunarian Shuffle's massively enhanced equipment menu.

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4378/

I used Advanced Patch Conflict Finder to see what the conflicts are... and to my surprise, there are none!

Should I release a new version of Project II with these enhancements?
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Rodimus Primal

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #674 on: February 25, 2019, 03:03:02 pm »
So, Crow was kind enough to release an IPS of Lunarian Shuffle's massively enhanced equipment menu.

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4378/

I used Advanced Patch Conflict Finder to see what the conflicts are... and to my surprise, there are none!

Should I release a new version of Project II with these enhancements?

Personally, I think I would just add it to the list of compatible patches available for the game. Some people might want the game to be a bit more like the original and options are always nice, regardless of how awesome it is. I'm going to have to check if it works with Namingway Edition too.

Edit - Just ran it through Patch Checker and this is what it states for Namingway Edition:

Quote
1. 00DE60:
[8B] [0B] [DA] [DA] [A2] [00] [01] [DA] [2B] [FA] [48] [AB] [C2] [20] [8A] [18] [65] [29] [AA] [E2] [20] [80] [1D] [20] [D9] [80] [20] [BD] [87] [8B] [0B] [DA] [A2] [00] [01] [DA] [2B] [4B] [AB] [C2] [20] [B9] [DA] [39] [18] [65] [29] [AA] [E2] [20] [C8] [C8] [B9] [DA] [39] [F0] [22] [C8] [C9] [01] [F0] [0C] [9F] [00] [00] [7E] [E8] [E8] [E6] [F0] [E6] [F0] [80] [EA] [C2] [20] [8A] [38] [E5] [F0] [18] [69] [40] [00] [AA] [E2] [20] [64] [F0] [80] [D9] [64] [F0] [FA] [2B] [AB] [60]

This is probably because of the font space using so many tiles that Project II does not use, among other things.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 03:08:34 pm by Rodimus Primal »

chillyfeez

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #675 on: February 26, 2019, 05:13:38 pm »
No, font tiles are in the 50xxxx block. That could very well be some patch I made for you that is not in PII. Like, didn't we change the dash toggle to a "hold B to dash?" Could be that...
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Rodimus Primal

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #676 on: February 26, 2019, 05:16:07 pm »
No, font tiles are in the 50xxxx block. That could very well be some patch I made for you that is not in PII. Like, didn't we change the dash toggle to a "hold B to dash?" Could be that...

We did. There's also the title screen change, and the longer item descriptions.

chillyfeez

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #677 on: February 26, 2019, 07:35:30 pm »
Ohhhh. We put three-line item descriptions into Namingway? That's almost certainly it. I'll download the latest version and see if I can clear out whatever it is I put in that space for you. No promises, because I don't know where there might be more free space in the ROM, but i'll give it the ol' college try.
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