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Author Topic: Project II: Final Fantasy IV v2.42  (Read 214255 times)

Spooniest

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #120 on: December 07, 2014, 03:43:35 pm »
By the way, for anyone interested, slickproductions.org seems to be back up and running.

It's about time.
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Grimoire LD

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #121 on: December 07, 2014, 03:56:28 pm »
Why that particular renaming? I'm not following for why that works.

Notus: God of the South Wind. In some translations of FFIV I've seen Antarctic Wind is translated as South Wind. Pretty clever way to stay faithful to the initial game while adding a bit of flavor... but Notus is specifically mentioned as being a warm "fiery" wind... so there's a bit of conflict in that.

vivify93

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #122 on: December 07, 2014, 10:48:43 pm »
I stole that item name from the PSone translation. ;D
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 10:59:00 pm by vivify93 »
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Vanya

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #123 on: December 08, 2014, 06:14:10 am »
Notus: God of the South Wind. In some translations of FFIV I've seen Antarctic Wind is translated as South Wind. Pretty clever way to stay faithful to the initial game while adding a bit of flavor... but Notus is specifically mentioned as being a warm "fiery" wind... so there's a bit of conflict in that.

Yeah. It's a greco-roman god and given the location of the Mediterranean a wind coming from the south is sorta coming from a desert  area.

Chrysologus

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #124 on: December 09, 2014, 02:22:55 pm »
This is an amazing project. Thank God I discovered it before purchasing a repro cart based on the J2e translation! You deserve great praise and thanks. Now I really hope you all can apply these skills to fixing the many bugs in Final Fantasy II with a high-quality restoration like this!

My only suggestion is that, a la Final Fantasy Restored, there be options for some of the patches that change gameplay, for the true purists.

Does anyone know if the patch to apply the slower spell progression from the Japanese version can be applied to this? I would like a little extra difficulty, personally, as I enjoyed the Playstation port that kept everything as in the Japanese version.

Again, kudos!

Grimoire LD

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #125 on: December 09, 2014, 02:45:13 pm »
You wouldn't need a patch for that, it's a very simple matter with FF4kster, looking up when the spells are learned would only take a trip to the wiki.

Chrysologus

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #126 on: December 09, 2014, 10:42:01 pm »
Do Cecil and Rosa kiss in this version, like in the Japanese one?

I noticed that at the beginning of the game, when Kain tells Cecil to go to bed, the word to seems to be missing. He says "go to bed [to] rest."

In the black magic research room, the magic symbols for Lit and Ice look weird, like some of the pixels are the wrong color. What is this?

Rodimus Primal

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #127 on: December 09, 2014, 11:02:44 pm »
Speaking of FF4kster, is is there a way to implement the dual letter encoding? I know with it, some things can be named longer. Without the ability to do so, I will have to HEX edit manually. This past week has been crazy for me. Started a new job and they flew me to their corporate office for training. At least I can continue my Project II add-on at night at the hotel.

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #128 on: December 09, 2014, 11:13:43 pm »
What is your Project II add-on (if you don't mind my asking)?

chillyfeez

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #129 on: December 09, 2014, 11:18:23 pm »
FFIV doesn't allow for DTE in many places, presumably in order to avoid names that run too long for the spaces where they will be displayed.
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Rodimus Primal

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #130 on: December 09, 2014, 11:20:40 pm »
It's an optional add-on that will attempt to rename all monsters, items, and spells in line with current, or close to, Square Enix naming. For example, Rosa's White spell is named Pearl in Project II. I've renamed it Holy. But there isn't room for Blizzard or Thunder, so Ice and Bolt will have to do. I've discovered the dual text encoding that the SNES game has, and can utilize it to stretch out names, but as I'm not sure if FF4kster allows for this. If not I can simply use a HEX editor. Some monsters need just ONE more letter. I did notice that some monsters already have this.

Chrysologus

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #131 on: December 09, 2014, 11:49:36 pm »
Pearl! How did that slip through?

Grimoire LD

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #132 on: December 09, 2014, 11:55:40 pm »
Pearl is the name of Holy in FFVI. One of the goals with Project II was to keep it in-line with censorship standards of the era. In the original FFII for SNES Holy is known as White.

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #133 on: December 10, 2014, 12:39:48 am »
Oooh, got it. Interesting approach.

vivify93

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #134 on: December 10, 2014, 02:26:32 am »
Edit - Oh! I almost forgot! v2.02 has been submitted. It implements the latest FFIV: User Options patch by chillyfeez, adds the supplements, and improves the Cry command to actually be useful! Cry now reduces all enemies' Magic Defense by half of Porom's Willpower rating. Thanks to Grimoire LD for help deciding what it should do. :)



Hello, Chrysologus! Thank you so much for playing Project II. I'm glad you're enjoying it! Please feel free to post more impressions and ask any questions about the script or game-play. :) Also, by all means, let me know of any typos that may have wormed their way through.

Do Cecil and Rosa kiss in this version, like in the Japanese one?
They actually always kiss in all SNES-based versions. No frames were removed, unlike how Ian Kelley claimed in his "FFIV to FFII US changes" FAQ. He actually made up a lot of stuff in that FAQ...

I noticed that at the beginning of the game, when Kain tells Cecil to go to bed, the word to seems to be missing. He says "go to bed [to] rest."
Argh, I wish I'd have caught that before submitting v2.02. He now says "go to bed and rest." Thank you for pointing that out; it'll be in the next version! :)

In the black magic research room, the magic symbols for Lit and Ice look weird, like some of the pixels are the wrong color. What is this?
When showing menus, FFIV actually prints the color black as see-through, creating the look of a "hole." The reason why it shows up as black in the battle menu and main menu is because they have black backgrounds. The only way to get around this would be to remove the color black from the black magic icon entirely, and I'm not comfortable with that.

I've discovered the dual text encoding that the SNES game has, and can utilize it to stretch out names, but as I'm not sure if FF4kster allows for this. If not I can simply use a HEX editor. Some monsters need just ONE more letter. I did notice that some monsters already have this.
Do you mean the li / il / ll digraphs I added in? Yeah, I had to put the majority of those in myself in a hex editor...

Oooh, got it. Interesting approach.
Yeah, I definitely wanted to make it seem authentic of the era: no swearing, not many overt religious references, etc. I'm definitely not as militant of it as Nintendo of America was. I make it pretty clear that Cid et al "die," and when it's impossible to write something without referencing religion, (e.g. GodsFury item, Pray command. I could've written around those in a half-baked manner, but it would've sounded completely stupid.) I go ahead an add it in. I also have zero qualms about nudity, since nudity is pretty tame in the FF series. For perspective, I reverted the original dancer sprite (Though, unfortunately, the one in Baron still doesn't strip) and the black orb in the Tower of Zot is now again a guillotine.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 02:35:29 am by vivify93 »
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Chrysologus

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #135 on: December 10, 2014, 12:07:30 pm »
Great! I was wondering why you hadn't improved cry like the other anemic abilities that were left out of the U.S. release. Am I correct that you left Dark unchanged, and that this is because it doesn't suck? I really love the design philosophy of improving only the abilities and spells that were left out of the U.S. version and leaving the rest untouched. Brilliant. Have you considered, though, making them a separate patch for those purists who may want to try them in their original versions? I'm thinking of the Final Fantasy Restored hack which has a few optional patches that alter the game.

It seems that we have been at the mercy of those people who played the Japanese version many years ago and then spread false information! (Sometimes I'm just tempted to learn Japanese since I like learning languages.) First I find out about how bad the fan translation is (which is really a tragedy when you consider the successful translations of II, III, and V), and now that the FAQs contain falsehoods! Can you tell me, then, what exactly was done to the U.S. version to make battles easier? All I could find online, surprisingly, was a vague assertion that (some?) enemies had more HP and did more damage (and that enemies in the back row took half damage like in III). I suppose I could open up the hackster program and then compare the stats there to what's listed on the IV gamercorner.net guide. I wonder if any one else at all would be interested in a hack to restore the original difficulty.

Dual-tile encoding, as I understand it, means that in the text table some entries can be, rather than single letters, two-letter combinations that are common in English (for example, "nd", "ng", "ck"). With enough of these, the number of bytes needed to store text can be greatly reduced. The amount of space on the screen needed to display that text remains the same, of course. This is separate from the digraphs, which although they also save a byte have the primary function of fitting things onto the screen that wouldn't otherwise. I believe dual-tile encoding is built into many games, and apparently IV is one of them.

How come you went with "Revive" instead of "FenixDown"? You could have made it [potion]Phoenix.

If I find any more typos, I'll let you know. So far I'm blown away with how good the dialogue is. Definitely an improvement over the Playstation version (the J2E translation is no longer worth mentioning). Your success at this makes me bummed that I wasn't able to finish my attempt at doing this to II. I was going through the newer translations in order to smooth out the fan translation and update names, but the hacking utility, it turned out, had a glitch that resulted in dialogue changes breaking the memorization system, rendering the game unplayable. Oh well. What that game really needs is for someone to fix the bugs; the dialogue is pretty good.

Keep up the good work!

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #136 on: December 10, 2014, 12:33:07 pm »
Great! I was wondering why you hadn't improved cry like the other anemic abilities that were left out of the U.S. release. Am I correct that you left Dark unchanged, and that this is because it doesn't suck? I really love the design philosophy of improving only the abilities and spells that were left out of the U.S. version and leaving the rest untouched. Brilliant. Have you considered, though, making them a separate patch for those purists who may want to try them in their original versions? I'm thinking of the Final Fantasy Restored hack which has a few optional patches that alter the game.

It seems that we have been at the mercy of those people who played the Japanese version many years ago and then spread false information! (Sometimes I'm just tempted to learn Japanese since I like learning languages.) First I find out about how bad the fan translation is (which is really a tragedy when you consider the successful translations of II, III, and V), and now that the FAQs contain falsehoods! Can you tell me, then, what exactly was done to the U.S. version to make battles easier? All I could find online, surprisingly, was a vague assertion that (some?) enemies had more HP and did more damage (and that enemies in the back row took half damage like in III). I suppose I could open up the hackster program and then compare the stats there to what's listed on the IV gamercorner.net guide. I wonder if any one else at all would be interested in a hack to restore the original difficulty.

Dual-tile encoding, as I understand it, means that in the text table some entries can be, rather than single letters, two-letter combinations that are common in English (for example, "nd", "ng", "ck"). With enough of these, the number of bytes needed to store text can be greatly reduced. The amount of space on the screen needed to display that text remains the same, of course. This is separate from the digraphs, which although they also save a byte have the primary function of fitting things onto the screen that wouldn't otherwise. I believe dual-tile encoding is built into many games, and apparently IV is one of them.

How come you went with "Revive" instead of "FenixDown"? You could have made it [potion]Phoenix.

If I find any more typos, I'll let you know. So far I'm blown away with how good the dialogue is. Definitely an improvement over the Playstation version (the J2E translation is no longer worth mentioning). Your success at this makes me bummed that I wasn't able to finish my attempt at doing this to II. I was going through the newer translations in order to smooth out the fan translation and update names, but the hacking utility, it turned out, had a glitch that resulted in dialogue changes breaking the memorization system, rendering the game unplayable. Oh well. What that game really needs is for someone to fix the bugs; the dialogue is pretty good.

Keep up the good work!

I think the reason a lot of these abilities were left out in the first place was because they were terrible. Let me give you a few examples...

Recall - Uses a random spell, 1/8. Here's the reality though... There is a 45% chance when used to only use a basic multi-targeted elemental spell and a 20% chance to miss all together, meaning only 35% of the time might it be doing something useful and there is only a 5% chance that it will be doing something useful on Bosses (Virus)

Salve - Splits a Normal Cure Potion to cure anywhere from 15-20 to the entire party, the definition of pointless, I would say.

Pray - A 50% chance to use Cure 1 on the party Free of MP Cost! Another ill-advised move.

Focus - Doubles attack, seems good on the surface, slight bit of a charge time, not bad right? Well the game doesn't mention that it also cuts Yang's Defense and Magic Defense in Half when he uses it.

Brace - Free Casting of Protect on Self, not really worth much because of how many times you'd have to stack it to see an appreciable difference.

Boast is the only example where I would nod my head and say "This is pretty good." Increase Wisdom by 16 and can be stacked, making each spell cast noticably more powerful than the last.

Cry - Hello most worthless ability in the game! Cry normally does this; cuts enemy's "Steal Defense" (Level+10) by half of Porom's Steal Defense (which never changes from 10) so... it decreases an enemy's Steal Defense - 5 each time it is used. Somewhat useful with Edge... but Porom isn't around Long enough for that to ever occur! I'm not sure what they were thinking when they made this, but there it is all the same. It was rumored for a very long time that Cry cut Run Time in Half, but there Is no Run Time in FFIV, if you can run, you run as soon as your ATB reaches 100% of any character.

Regen - Oh boy... Restores 10 HP in 5 intervals while also taking FuSoYa out of commission to use it! Even early in the game this would be garbage but since it comes so late is even more a slap in the face.


...This is the reason why it's not worth it to make a patch that enables the original functionality of these foolishly implemented abilities.

As for differences between FFII and FFIV SNES and SFC there are a few which makes things easier in English, but not terribly much so... Enemy's HP has been lowered just a tad as have their attack, but these are marginal differences at best and aren't for every enemy. There were a couple AI Pattern changes as well. Both FFII and FFIV have enemies take reduced damage in the backrow. (Technically it's half accuracy and if they're in the backrow attacking a backrow character it's 1/4 accuracy)


« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 12:41:33 pm by Grimoire LD »

vivify93

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #137 on: December 10, 2014, 02:45:14 pm »
They also reduced the cast times of Twin Magic drastically. It took 16 seconds to cast it in FFIV, but only 6 seconds to cast it in FFII US. The twins can still go out of sync, it's just harder to due to the reduced time. Some other things may have had their casting time lowered, too.

Aside from the graphical differences, the only other thing I can think of is that the Black Robe got its bonus changed from Wisdom +5 to Willpower +5 for some reason.

Edit -
Great! I was wondering why you hadn't improved cry like the other anemic abilities that were left out of the U.S. release. Am I correct that you left Dark unchanged, and that this is because it doesn't suck? I really love the design philosophy of improving only the abilities and spells that were left out of the U.S. version and leaving the rest untouched. Brilliant.
Thank you! I think I've actually only improved five commands, though--Pray, Cry, Sing, Regen, and Salve, and I didn't even do the latter two of those! I personally think Recall is pretty fair on its own, though maybe it'd be better if it cast the spells for free.

Have you considered, though, making them a separate patch for those purists who may want to try them in their original versions? I'm thinking of the Final Fantasy Restored hack which has a few optional patches that alter the game.
If I did this, I think I'd basically just be putting in the original spell acquisition rates for Rydia and Rosa, and returning the commands to their old, dinky selves. The two major treasure changes would be the same, and I'm never going to put back the original maps. I'll see if there's demand for the first two changes, though. :) Thank you for the suggestion!

How come you went with "Revive" instead of "FenixDown"? You could have made it [potion]Phoenix.
If I wrote it as FenixDown, I would've had to drop the potion icon. Didn't wanna do that at all. I could've gone with FenixDwn or FenxDown, but those look awful to me. I mostly went with Revive Potion because it sounded nice, and that's what it was called in the Final Fantasy II: Shadow of Palakia prototype. Phoenix Potion could be an interesting change, although I think it sounds more like a stat-buffing item. Again, we'll have to let the jury reach a verdict on that!

So far I'm blown away with how good the dialogue is. Definitely an improvement over the Playstation version (the J2E translation is no longer worth mentioning).
J2e's translation is... pretty bad. I can't mince words here. But it's a part of Final Fantasy history, and I have to give them that, at least.

Your success at this makes me bummed that I wasn't able to finish my attempt at doing this to II. I was going through the newer translations in order to smooth out the fan translation and update names, but the hacking utility, it turned out, had a glitch that resulted in dialogue changes breaking the memorization system, rendering the game unplayable. Oh well. What that game really needs is for someone to fix the bugs; the dialogue is pretty good.
Aww, I'm sorry to hear about that! I think Demiforce did a great job on the dialogue, too. I think the three major bugs are the experience bug, the title screen bug, and the Ultima bug. I think I did a graphical cleanup mod that also fixed Ultima, but I'm not sure if I'd ever finish it. I prefer the GBA version.

Thank you for your praise and for letting me know about any typos! :)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 02:57:42 pm by vivify93 »
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Chrysologus

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #138 on: December 10, 2014, 02:57:20 pm »
Very informative! Thank you. Obviously it was more misinformation from online FAQs that claimed the back row was removed from the English version. You say the differences in HP and attack power were marginal, but the game seemed quite a bit harder to me! Zeromus in particular seemed harder. Was I just misremembering the difficulty of the original?

Interesting that cry was misunderstood. I wonder what it says about cry in the Japanese instructional manual. With so many fans out there who have translated these games, I'm surprised no one bothered to buy one and read it. The Final Fantasy Wikia claims that cry was supposed to cast confuse on the enemies. Who knows where that information came from, though? In the DS version it halves the enemy's defense. I'm curious: why did you decide to go with magic defense instead? Speaking of the DS verison, they improved Rosa's pray ability both in intensity and by having it restore both HP and MP, and they changed Fusoya's ability to restore MP instead of HP, and made recall able to cast much more powerful spells, so those are other possibilities.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 03:02:43 pm by Chrysologus »

vivify93

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Re: Project II: Final Fantasy IV
« Reply #139 on: December 10, 2014, 03:02:47 pm »
Whoops, looks like I took too long in my editing. Oh well. I think FFII US mostly seemed easier because of the accelerated spell learning and the fact that Remedies can be bought anywhere cheaply. The multi-target Charm thing apparently stems from the PSP version, which changed Charm to do exactly that.

I did kind of want to change Pray to use a Tincture on the whole team, but FF4kster doesn't support that kind of change. I'd have to see which of the enemy attacks are unused and change it to an MP-healing skill, then set that for Pray. I'm kind of alright with it being a free Cure2 at 70% chance for now.

I went with Magic Defense for a couple reasons... For one, not many enemies actually have a Defense stat in the 2D FFIVs. For another, it makes the twins' powers have synergy. Porom cries and distresses the enemy, lowering their Mag. Def.; Palom boasts about how smart he is, raising his Wis.; and then they twincast a spell on the enemy. Grimoire LD helped me figure that one out.
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