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Author Topic: Final Fantasy VI SNES Woolsey Uncensored Edition (Updated - Version 2.06)  (Read 191908 times)

wakkoswami

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I was going to wait until the final version to give it a try, but I'm willing to do a playthrough of this last revision as well if you'd like me to.

Isao Kronos

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apologies if i misrepresented how i felt as salty lol

it's more like im just hoping everything goes smoothly as quick as feasible so I can get back to playing but with all the updates and whatnot

Dzumeister

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apologies if i misrepresented how i felt as salty lol

it's more like im just hoping everything goes smoothly as quick as feasible so I can get back to playing but with all the updates and whatnot

Your savefile should be compatible with new updates, according to Rodimus
free sluffy

Rodimus Primal

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I accept all your apologies. If anyone wants to play through the current version, I can PM a link. If there's any errors be sure to post in this topic and I'll get it corrected right away.

Dzumeister

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Post #1/Post #2/Post #3/Post #4/Post #5/Post #6/Post #7/Post #8/Post #9

Apologies for the long time in-between posts, but I've been playing NBA Jam 2K20::) I'm almost to World of Ruin! I think if you post that 3,000+ line script, Rodimus; some users might be able to go through your updates and double-check a little easier while I finish on 2.03. Otherwise, I'll have to start a new save.


There's an extra to here.
As a rule, we are not allowed to visit to your world.


Not sure why ARE is in all-caps here, since that's a weird emphasis


Gestahl/Kefka's laughter isn't capitalized


Leo didn't threaten him, so maybe consider changing Kefka's line here


Revise punctuation to
Yeah, right, kid!
or
Yeah right, kid!


Misspelling of neutralized

Hopefully I finish World of Balance tomorrow or so.  :thumbsup:
free sluffy

Rodimus Primal

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Post #1/Post #2/Post #3/Post #4/Post #5/Post #6/Post #7/Post #8/Post #9

Apologies for the long time in-between posts, but I've been playing NBA Jam 2K20::) I'm almost to World of Ruin! I think if you post that 3,000+ line script, Rodimus; some users might be able to go through your updates and double-check a little easier while I finish on 2.03. Otherwise, I'll have to start a new save.


There's an extra to here.
As a rule, we are not allowed to visit to your world.


Not sure why ARE is in all-caps here, since that's a weird emphasis


Gestahl/Kefka's laughter isn't capitalized


Leo didn't threaten him, so maybe consider changing Kefka's line here


Revise punctuation to
Yeah, right, kid!
or
Yeah right, kid!


Misspelling of neutralized

Hopefully I finish World of Balance tomorrow or so.  :thumbsup:

Cool. I was able to fix all of those. Some were already fixed within the current updates. I also reworked Strago and Relm's introduction due to a mistranslation in the dialogue that was brought to my attention that was very clunky in the original SNES.

As for the script itself, I did PM others who may want to take a look at it. Maybe this will help get this next revision out sooner. 

wakkoswami

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Hey, just got done with the first little part of my playthrough so I'll post what I've found so far. I haven't been around or read through the rest of the thread, so I'm sorry if I repost stuff that's already been mentioned before.



I assume it doesn't fit, but "Rmove" can't be "Remove" on the equip menu?

MBlock% to MEvade% to match Evade%?

Pendant item description has "Magitek Armor", but armor is usually lowercase in dialog?

I figure the debate on whether to use abbreviations or not has already been had, but for MagitkMissile, there's a M-TekArmor enemy so I don't think "M-Tek Missile" would be a bad compromise and it would look nicer imo.

Mine Shaft is usually one word - Dialog by Biggs/Wedge before entering said mineshaft at start

Poisoned Wererats from Bio Blast repeatedly gain and lose 2 hp, like they are both poisoned and have regen on. Can't remember if it was like this in base game or not.

new-found can be one word as well - in Gestahl's flashback speech after Terra falls at the start

"Gauntlet allows you to hold a weapon with both hands for more damage.." - From the moogle in south figaro who gives the relic tutorial. Ellipses in this game are usually 3/6 dots, so is it just supposed to be a period?

TelportStone to Teleport Gem or TeleportRock maybe?

Slight inconsistency, not sure if you'd care or not - Antidote has "Cures poison.", Poisona has "Cures poisoning"





Dialog seems unnatural to be coming from a kid. Something like "The richest guy in town lives in a house to the north." seems better imo.



"nevers seems"



hometown can be 1 word



Not to try to take away any woolseyisms here, but I'm not sure if there'd be any gyms in the world of FF6...



That's all for now, I'll add more later.

Rodimus Primal

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Hey, just got done with the first little part of my playthrough so I'll post what I've found so far. I haven't been around or read through the rest of the thread, so I'm sorry if I repost stuff that's already been mentioned before.



I assume it doesn't fit, but "Rmove" can't be "Remove" on the equip menu?

MBlock% to MEvade% to match Evade%?

Pendant item description has "Magitek Armor", but armor is usually lowercase in dialog?

I figure the debate on whether to use abbreviations or not has already been had, but for MagitkMissile, there's a M-TekArmor enemy so I don't think "M-Tek Missile" would be a bad compromise and it would look nicer imo.

Mine Shaft is usually one word - Dialog by Biggs/Wedge before entering said mineshaft at start

Poisoned Wererats from Bio Blast repeatedly gain and lose 2 hp, like they are both poisoned and have regen on. Can't remember if it was like this in base game or not.

new-found can be one word as well - in Gestahl's flashback speech after Terra falls at the start

"Gauntlet allows you to hold a weapon with both hands for more damage.." - From the moogle in south figaro who gives the relic tutorial. Ellipses in this game are usually 3/6 dots, so is it just supposed to be a period?

TelportStone to Teleport Gem or TeleportRock maybe?

Slight inconsistency, not sure if you'd care or not - Antidote has "Cures poison.", Poisona has "Cures poisoning"





Dialog seems unnatural to be coming from a kid. Something like "The richest guy in town lives in a house to the north." seems better imo.



"nevers seems"



hometown can be 1 word



Not to try to take away any woolseyisms here, but I'm not sure if there'd be any gyms in the world of FF6...



That's all for now, I'll add more later.

The abbreviations I cannot do anything about with the text limitation but I fixed the typos and two words that should be one.

I had recently changed, by suggestion of another, Magitek Armor to a lowercase a. But then I looked up the name on the Wiki, and sure enough, it should be a capital A. So, that's fixed now.

Wererats do have that weird thing about them and that was in vanilla FFVI.

As for the Woolseyism with gyms in a fantasy world, I decided to look this one up. The earliest recorded gym in history dates back to 3000 years ago in ancient Persia. They are in ancient Greek and Roman cultures too since they participated in Olympic sport. It's on their mosiacs on walls in bath houses too. So yes, a gym CAN exist in a fantasy world but it might be different than what we think of.

hairy_hen

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I'm less concerned about whether gyms exist in this world than about the bizarre image of a bear lifting weights.

For the sake of simplicity, I would put this back to just 'bodybuilder', and then change Sabin's subsequent 'bear' to 'bodybuilder' as well, to maintain consistency.

Gi Nattak

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I must agree with ^, a bodybuilding bear is a bit much lol.

BlazeHeatnix

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I'm gonna lay this down one last time.

This is not "Final Fantasy VI Retranslated".
This is not "Final Fantasy VI Rewritten".
This is not "Final Fantasy VI Anti-Woolsey Edition".

This is "Final Fantasy VI Woolsey Uncensored Edition". As in, it's all of Woolsey's original script minus mistranslations, grammar mistakes, and of course censorship. That's it. Rodimus isn't getting rid of Woolseyisms. He's not getting rid of pop culture references. He's not concerned with things that are questionable to exist in the world of FFVI.

If you're the type of person who throws a fit when a localized piece of dialogue is not accurate to either the original script or 100% fitting within the game's world, regardless of how memorable or colorful it is, then this hack simply is not for you. I know that you want this to be the definitive script for FFVI that satisfies everyone because of how many other bugfixes and quality-of-life things it adds, but that's just not going to happen. This hack is for a specific group of people who want to experience the script from their childhoods without any of the objective issues the original had. It has to be annoying for Rodimus to see everyone try to change this into something it's not.

lexluthermiester

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I accept all your apologies. If anyone wants to play through the current version, I can PM a link. If there's any errors be sure to post in this topic and I'll get it corrected right away.
FWIW, These updates are not troublesome. The Savegames are unaffected and we're talking about seeming cosmetic changes. No worries.

Rodimus Primal

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Ugh. I don't understand why this is so complicated to understand and why there's such a HARD push for me to remove EVERY single Woolseyism as if they are a stain on the game or something. I believe removing them is like making Greedo shooting first.

I feel I need to point out that this game more localized than it is a literal translation. You have to understand that English, especially here in the US, is full of expressive idioms. My brother in law is from China, and my sister and I constantly have to explain to him some of the phrases we use in regular language. (Don't put all your eggs in one basket. To make a long story short. There's no such thing as a free lunch. Etc) In the same way, a lot of lines used in this game's localization have the same expressive flair, which is what Ted Woosley was KNOWN for.

This particular line has been in TWUE since I started this project and there is a reason for it. Since the literalists have descended upon RHDN who don't understand humor or idioms, want exact 1:1 translations with NO English expressions, and hate the idea of localization over translation, let's analyze this shall we?

You battle Vargas who is accompanied by bears! He's a martial artist who trains with bears, which is probably how he gains his strength. What other video game characters do this? Zangief in Street Fighter does, which is why he has so many scars. So does Heihachi Mishima in Tekken with Kuma. In fact, Kuma trains to fight as well.



So there's your image of a bear training to fight, as ridiculous as it is.

Now for the ACTUAL literal Japanese translation.
Quote
   {ティナ}「お…弟さん?
 わ、私…てっきり大きな熊かと…。

It's kind of like. "Younger brother? I th-thought he was a giant bear, actually..."

This of course is followed up by Sabin/Mash, saying
Quote
{マッシュ}「熊か…そりゃあいい!

"A bear? That's great!"

At the end of the conversation, in in both the SNES and GBA, he says "Think a "bear" like me can help?" Mind you that the Japanese line is more like
Quote
{マッシュ}「俺の技もお役に
 立てるかい?
"Do you think my skills would be useful?"

So my line of thinking was to connect these two. The missing information about a bear is restored while keeping Woolsey's line about a bodybuilder straying from his gym intact. The connection with the later line that Sabin says makes a LOT more sense as well.

AdamDravian

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Ugh. I don't understand why this is so complicated to understand and why there's such a HARD push for me to remove EVERY single Woolseyism as if they are a stain on the game or something. I believe removing them is like making Greedo shooting first.

While I respect that your stated goal for this mod isn't aligned with my personal preferences, and therefore I'd never try to convince you to remove a Woolseyism ... I just wanted to say that I don't think your Greedo analogy is very accurate to this situation.

Han shooting first was Lucas's original intent. Much later, he changed his mind and hamfistedly retconned it to Greedo shooting first. However, in FF6, the Woolseyisms were never the original intent of the game's developers. They are instead the result of a rushed translator who likely inserted such silly things to amuse himself. Since they aren't what the original developers intended, I'd argue that the Woolseyisms are more like the retcon of Greedo shooting first.

But I get what you're trying to say. You grew up with the Woolseyisms (as did I; I bought "FF3" upon its US release and it was my favorite game for years), and so removing the Woolseyisms feels like a betrayal to the thing you fondly remember, just like Lucas changing Star Wars so that Greedo shoots first. I totally get it. I just now prefer to experience all my media in a form that most closely represents what its original creators intended at the time of its release.

Also lines like Shadow "Slitting his momma's throat for a nickel" seemed cool when I was 13, but now as an adult, it just seems like an odd thing for King Edgar to say, which takes me out of the game.

But you're very upfront about the intent of your mod (Hell, it's in the name) and so no one should argue with you to go against that. For all the fans like you who view the Woolseyisms as sacred cows that are a big factor in their enjoyment of FF6, you're providing a great service.

Also, I'm a big fan of your FFIV mod. Thanks for that.

[Edit: I just realized I wrote that Lucas's original intent was to have Greedo shoot first, but I totally meant to say that his original intent was for *Han* to shoot first. Not sure how I typed the opposite of what I meant, but I just fixed it.]
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 07:15:47 pm by AdamDravian »
Writer of the '80s-themed webcomic Satan Ninja 198X

Heaven Piercing Man

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Hey, I loathe Woolsey's style down to the letter, yet I will defend it to death for the purposes of this hack, because, well, it IS the purpose of the hack, and the other fixes are also a huge plus. Just imagine if the game back then had been released with all these enhancements and no censorship and TW had more than a month to work on FF6. These "alt universes" that are fun to imagine.

I've said it before, if we're looking for something different, we also have HairyHen's Tomato-inspired fork, there's a sound patch for the GBA version, there's the Steam version (which is not THAT bad, you get used to the cartoony, unpixelated sprites after a few hours), and there are easily learnable tools so anyone of us can do a script port, a rewrite, a different language version, a personal version, etc...

hairy_hen

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I think my comment might have been misunderstood, so let me briefly clarify.  I wasn't saying a Woolseyism should be removed; I was actually speaking in favor of keeping one.

My observation on that phrase sounding kind of strange comes from my experience playing this version last year.  I remember doing a bit of a double-take when I came to that line, because I wasn't sure what Terra was trying to say.  I'd never played the game before, and from the point of view of a newcomer it was a little confusing.  It was only later when I investigated the various versions of the script that I understood this phrasing to be combining two separate ideas into one line.  'Bodybuilder' on its own is simpler and clearer, and having Sabin call himself that in the second instance would maintain consistency.  That's all I meant.

I'm actually sort of confused when people talk about getting rid of Woolseyisms in this project too, because it wouldn't really live up to its name anymore if they were eliminated.   :huh:   Anyway, I'll mind my own business.

BlazeHeatnix

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Han shooting first was Lucas's original intent. Much later, he changed his mind and hamfistedly retconned it to Greedo shooting first. However, in FF6, the Woolseyisms were never the original intent of the game's developers. They are instead the result of a rushed translator who likely inserted such silly things to amuse himself. Since they aren't what the original developers intended, I'd argue that the Woolseyisms are more like the retcon of Greedo shooting first.

There are lots of things adapted from the original work that weren't anything like the author intended. The original story of Cinderella had her stepsisters chopping parts of their feet off so they could fit in the slipper, which Disney removed for their movie, not just due to censorship but because it's just not palatable to the audience that they were bringing it to. It's the same with a foreign work like a Japanese RPG being brought to American shores.

For example, in the original Japanese version of Metal Gear Solid, Psycho Mantis's last words to Snake after helping him is that it feels nostalgic. Kojima's intent was that this was a reference to how Mantis's mother used the last of her strength during childbirth so that he'd survive. Obviously this made zero sense in the context of the scene and you'd need outside knowledge to know that, so it was changed so that helping Snake just "felt nice". Kojima also hates David Hayter's portrayal of Snake, probably one of the most iconic voices in all of gaming and one of the many sources of the series's longevity and popularity in the West. Developer intent is nice, but they CAN be wrong. If they had complete creative control over an English localization, it would be a disaster. See Shenmue.

The exact words are not as important as the context and meaning behind them; that's really the only thing that needs to be preserved when it comes to a localization. Amateur localizers seem to not understand this aspect though, and drift further away from year after year. It's not important that Terra mistook him for a bear; what's important is that she mistook him for something or someone other than Edgar's brother. We may not see a gym, but it's silly to think that they don't exist while there's an opera hall around. Same with submarines in a world of giant mechs and flying machines. If the script had referenced things like movies or television as having existed, then that would be a bit more questionable. But as it stands, there's nothing so jarring about the script choices mentioned earlier.

pleasejust

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I don't understand why... there's such a HARD push for me to remove EVERY single Woolseyism

Screw them. Don't give in to these clueless people.

BlazeHeatNix is right. A meaningful translation to the intended audience OBVIOUSLY trumps any kind of literal translation. End of story. Anyone who thinks otherwise are clueless and should be ignored.

Chaos Rush

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I’m just gonna but in and give my two cents about something being talked about a while back that’s somewhat relevant:

Submarines exist in FF1 and FF3, both of which feature settings with technology significantly less advanced than FF6. FF6 looks to have a level of technology on par with the industrial revolution of the 1900’s, give or take a few anachronisms. I think it’s okay for submarines to exist in that world.

mkwong98

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I too find the phase "bodybuilding bear" to be a mouthful. But at this point all I can think of is "bear on steroids". :laugh: