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Author Topic: Final Fantasy VI SNES Woolsey Uncensored Edition (Updated - Version 2.06)  (Read 192867 times)

Rodimus Primal

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I think "dived" or "dove" is more suitable than "sank".

True, but this is a line directly from the GBA translation. I think I will change it for this line though, as dove makes more sense. The castle basically is a desert submarine after all.

As I've been going through the script, any instances that I used the Sky Render translation and were incorrect have been fixed, at least as far as I can tell. I also fixed a lot of Locke's dialogue with and about Rachel. Now the strong connection about his motivations throughout the game are stated again, as they should have been.

One line I am on the fence about changing it Setzer's introduction. Not a single translation was able to fit all of what's stated in the Japanese according to Mato, and I always liked the original SNES version and its simplicity. What's everyone think?

Japanese (Mato's translation):
A man who lives in a world where things like good and evil have no relevance and who soars through the skies aboard the Blackjack, an airship that contains a gambling venue.

SNES:
A blackjack-playing, world-traveling, casino-dwelling free spirit…

GBA:
A gambling vagabond who finds freedom from society’s narrow views of morality aboard his airship, the Blackjack…


svenge

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One line I am on the fence about changing it Setzer's introduction. Not a single translation was able to fit all of what's stated in the Japanese according to Mato, and I always liked the original SNES version and its simplicity. What's everyone think?

I think that the SNES translation resonates better, so I'd use that just as long as the name of the airship (Blackjack) isn't directly referenced elsewhere as some kind of plot point.

hairy_hen

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Since the name of this project is ‘Woolsey Uncensored’ and not ‘Woolsey Rewritten’, it seems to me that it would be best to change as little as possible when it comes to things like this. The meaning of the story is not negatively affected, so it seems out of scope from the stated goals. I would apply this advice to any place where neither censorship nor mistranslation are the reason for the script being different than the Japanese version.

BlazeHeatnix

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One line I am on the fence about changing it Setzer's introduction. Not a single translation was able to fit all of what's stated in the Japanese according to Mato, and I always liked the original SNES version and its simplicity. What's everyone think?

Japanese (Mato's translation):
A man who lives in a world where things like good and evil have no relevance and who soars through the skies aboard the Blackjack, an airship that contains a gambling venue.

SNES:
A blackjack-playing, world-traveling, casino-dwelling free spirit…

GBA:
A gambling vagabond who finds freedom from society’s narrow views of morality aboard his airship, the Blackjack…

Saying that Setzer plays blackjack and that he dwells in casinos is redundant. That's clearly a mistranslation. The Blackjack IS his casino. Saying that he doesn't care about good or evil is an important character trait. He also doesn't travel the world. That implies he's interested in sightseeing, but really, he's just a wanderer. I like the simplicity of the SNES version too, and a line of dialogue following right after already says his airship is the Blackjack. Suggestion:

A gambling vagabond, flying high where morality has no meaning…

Since the name of this project is ‘Woolsey Uncensored’ and not ‘Woolsey Rewritten’, it seems to me that it would be best to change as little as possible when it comes to things like this. The meaning of the story is not negatively affected, so it seems out of scope from the stated goals. I would apply this advice to any place where neither censorship nor mistranslation are the reason for the script being different than the Japanese version.

I agree, and that's why I would suggest two patches: one that has the current version, and one that has a total rewrite like what we're doing here. One for 2.01 and one for "3.0" or whatever this is. That's something the "Mod of Balance" patch for Dawn of Souls does.

But another thing is that while much of Woolsey's script is being rewritten here, much of it really is mistranslated. You vastly underestimate just how much Woolsey's script gets wrong.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 02:11:27 pm by BlazeHeatnix »

hairy_hen

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Believe me, I'm very well aware of how many problems there are in the SNES version.  That's exactly the reason why I've spent over two months rewriting the script myself, as an addendum to this project.  My version is closer to the Japanese script on a line-by-line basis.  I just think it would be a shame to lose too much of Woolsey's writing in this version, because it has a unique and memorable style, and the parts that aren't censored or mistranslated are worth keeping.

That said, I like your wording suggestion for this part quite a lot.

Rodimus Primal

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I can tell you have a deep, seething hatred for Woolsey, BlazeHeatnix. It's almost as if you want me to just port the GBA translation into the game and remove ALL memorable lines for that reason.

I appreciate Woolsey's simplicity and creativity in his writings. I am aware there are numerous things he got wrong, and those are the lines that had to be fixed the most. Sometimes though, the localization is better than the original when presented in English. That's why there are so many fans of the games he worked on, despite their flaws in the scripts. I am neither a super fan of his, and clearly I'm not someone who despises his work.

Still, I like to keep things in his style where I can if I am updating the mis-translations. Sometimes this means adding to an incorrect, but flavorful line. 

Like the example I used above.

Duncan's students have no peers! (adding a line break)
In fact, you look just like one of them!"

For Setzer's introduction, its a LOT of information dumped on you in Japanese and not even the GBA translation fit it all. However, the term "free spirit" as used in the SNES version is a short hand way to describe him. World-traveling can mean a sightseer OR, as it is in context, world-traveling free spirit quite literally means "he travels the world with no boundaries"

I get the blackjack-playing part. It is literally repeating the fact that he dwells in a casino. But it doesn't state that the Blackjack IS his casino, which has to do with the fact that the game has space limitations.

So let's try and do this in the same vein. With that same creativity.

A gambling, world-traveling free
spirit...Flying high where morality
has no meaning aboard his casino
equipped airship, the Blackjack...

How does that sound? Just so you know, I cannot hyphenate casino-equipped though grammatically it might need it.

BlazeHeatnix

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I can tell you have a deep, seething hatred for Woolsey, BlazeHeatnix. It's almost as if you want me to just port the GBA translation into the game and remove ALL memorable lines for that reason.

I appreciate Woolsey's simplicity and creativity in his writings. I am aware there are numerous things he got wrong, and those are the lines that had to be fixed the most. Sometimes though, the localization is better than the original when presented in English. That's why there are so many fans of the games he worked on, despite their flaws in the scripts. I am neither a super fan of his, and clearly I'm not someone who despises his work.

Still, I like to keep things in his style where I can if I am updating the mis-translations. Sometimes this means adding to an incorrect, but flavorful line.

I resent that. You're talking to someone who suggested keeping Woolsey's changes to Vargas's motivation and character. You're talking to someone who suggested reverting Sabin's Blitzes back to "Suplex" and "Fire Dance". Someone who openly recognizes how memorable Woolsey's quotes are. Someone who will openly praise Yu Yu Hakusho's dub and script as bring miles better than the original despite it being completely inaccurate. And I'm also someone who actually works for an ADR company.

I like Woolsey's simplicity and creativity, and I don't mind his "changes" IF they are:

1. Better and more interesting than the original (like the rum -> cider thing)
2. Consistent with the rest of the game.

I like Slattery's script and it's overall better than Woolsey's, but it has its own problems. Slattery's style is often very dry, wordy and flowery. I mean, just look at his script for War of the Lions. It's just....bleh. That's why I think his script for Chrono Trigger sucks and Woolsey's outclasses it in many ways. Woolsey keeps things simple, understandable, and easy to read, even if he makes a ton of mistakes. I would never suggest dumping Slattery's script as-is into the SNES version, but I also can't just ignore the fact that some of his lines are just plain better.

When I recommend reverting to the GBA line it's almost always because either Woolsey's version is unmemorable, or because Slattery adds extra layers, or he adds humor, or he's more consistent with the rest of the game, or because Woolsey cut several lines/details from the original. 90% of Woolsey's script is totally fine and I haven't touched it.

As for the Blackjack line, I say again: there's really no need to keep the line talking about "his airship, the Blackjack" even if it's in Japanese, because a line from the Impresario right after says that exact thing (paraphrased since I'm on mobile and can't check):

"That's Setzer! He owns the only airship in the world, the 'Blackjack'!"

I also want to note that "vagabond" is a good way to shorten "world-travelling free spirit" because a vagabond IS a world-travelling free spirit. But if you want to keep the "world-travelling free spirit" thing, and you want to specify that the Blackjack has a casino, then:

A high-flying, world-travelling, free-spirited gambler. Morality has no meaning aboard his casino-equipped airship...

I'm just afraid that this is too wordy and won't fit. I think the reason Woolsey and Slattery cut out the part about the Blackjack having a casino is because the party can clearly see that for themselves a few minutes later when they board it. And to the player, it's like "oh neat, he has a casino in here".
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 07:46:28 pm by BlazeHeatnix »

Digitsie

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I gotta be frank, quibbling about using Woolsey-isms in a thread that's called "Woolsey Uncensored Edition" seems to be basically missing the point of that project's scope.

You might be better off directing your script change recommendations in this thread (Final Fantasy 6 script rewrite):

https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=28660.0;topicseen

I'm perfectly happy with the Woolsey scope here, and would appreciate keeping it that way instead of making Rodimal change it to "Really Good English Translated Uncensored Final Fantasy VI".

BlazeHeatnix

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I gotta be frank, quibbling about using Woolsey-isms in a thread that's called "Woolsey Uncensored Edition" seems to be basically missing the point of that project's scope.

You might be better off directing your script change recommendations in this thread (Final Fantasy 6 script rewrite):

https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=28660.0;topicseen

I'm perfectly happy with the Woolsey scope here, and would appreciate keeping it that way instead of making Rodimal change it to "Really Good English Translated Uncensored Final Fantasy VI".

I'm not making him do anything. But maybe your proposed hack would be better-suited for my notes.

To be honest I had considered my own localization hack, I only did this because Rodimal seemed to like what I was saying.

Rodimus Primal

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I resent that. You're talking to someone who suggested keeping Woolsey's changes to Vargas's motivation and character. You're talking to someone who suggested reverting Sabin's Blitzes back to "Suplex" and "Fire Dance". Someone who openly recognizes how memorable Woolsey's quotes are. Someone who will openly praise Yu Yu Hakusho's dub and script as bring miles better than the original despite it being completely inaccurate. And I'm also someone who actually works for an ADR company.

I like Woolsey's simplicity and creativity, and I don't mind his "changes" IF they are:

1. Better and more interesting than the original (like the rum -> cider thing)
2. Consistent with the rest of the game.

I like Slattery's script and it's overall better than Woolsey's, but it has its own problems. Slattery's style is often very dry, wordy and flowery. I mean, just look at his script for War of the Lions. It's just....bleh. That's why I think his script for Chrono Trigger sucks and Woolsey's outclasses it in many ways. Woolsey keeps things simple, understandable, and easy to read, even if he makes a ton of mistakes. I would never suggest dumping Slattery's script as-is into the SNES version, but I also can't just ignore the fact that some of his lines are just plain better.

When I recommend reverting to the GBA line it's almost always because either Woolsey's version is unmemorable, or because Slattery adds extra layers, or he adds humor, or he's more consistent with the rest of the game, or because Woolsey cut several lines/details from the original. 90% of Woolsey's script is totally fine and I haven't touched it.

As for the Blackjack line, I say again: there's really no need to keep the line talking about "his airship, the Blackjack" even if it's in Japanese, because a line from the Impresario right after says that exact thing (paraphrased since I'm on mobile and can't check):

"That's Setzer! He owns the only airship in the world, the 'Blackjack'!"

I also want to note that "vagabond" is a good way to shorten "world-travelling free spirit" because a vagabond IS a world-travelling free spirit. But if you want to keep the "world-travelling free spirit" thing, and you want to specify that the Blackjack has a casino, then:

A high-flying, world-travelling, free-spirited gambler. Morality has no meaning aboard his casino-equipped airship...

I'm just afraid that this is too wordy and won't fit. I think the reason Woolsey and Slattery cut out the part about the Blackjack having a casino is because the party can clearly see that for themselves a few minutes later when they board it. And to the player, it's like "oh neat, he has a casino in here".

Allow me first to apologize. I had received MULTIPLE PMs from numerous people recently, all going on rants about how they wanted to use my work to make a version closer to the GBA, or they had issue with my work without stating what they had a problem with so I took my frustrations out on you. I spent a LOT of time making Woolsey Uncensored Edition as a passion project so I unfortunately took it a little personal. But I realize that you're simply trying to help make this the best it could be, just like I did. I did read the "just revert to the GBA version" a little odd for certain lines but like you said, it was done because of lines that the GBA version simply got right in terms of translation.

I also had to scratch my head about when, in your notes, you questioned why I kept certain Woolseyisms (like slit his mama's throat for a nickel or Call me a treasure hunter or I'll rip your lungs out) but that was the whole scope of the project. They are ridiculously cheesey lines that, in my opinion, are staples of the US release of the game. It's almost like Spoony Bard with FFIV.

Overall, I'm thankful that this much attention has been brought to the project, and that talented folks, like yourself, are willing to lend a hand. Your suggestions have been extremely helpful. It gave me the push to look through Mato's notes to get an accurate update to the project while still keeping within the scope of Woosley Uncensored. Again, I apologize if I came across poorly.

As for things in the script. Sabin's Blitz's are remaining as they are. In battle they display the correct name but the patch that puts their names in the Menu pulls from the original location of the names. That's why they are abbreviated there as they are. If they were changed to pull from the expanded names list, and could display properly in the menu, it would be perfect. But until then, I think it is serviceable.

As for Setzer, you're right about the Blackjack being named right after his intro, ("That's Setzer, owner of the world's only airship, the Blackjack.")so it really is just repeating what is already said if I go out of my way to name it.

However, upon much thought and from all of your suggestions, I think it might be the best to KEEP the Woolsey lines intact, but once again adding to it to add the missing information that should be important to his character. I know some of it might be redundant, but I always like the flow of it.

A blackjack-playing,
world-traveling, casino-dwelling
free spirit who soars the skies
where morality has no meaning_

What do you guys think?


I gotta be frank, quibbling about using Woolsey-isms in a thread that's called "Woolsey Uncensored Edition" seems to be basically missing the point of that project's scope.

You might be better off directing your script change recommendations in this thread (Final Fantasy 6 script rewrite):

https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=28660.0;topicseen

I'm perfectly happy with the Woolsey scope here, and would appreciate keeping it that way instead of making Rodimal change it to "Really Good English Translated Uncensored Final Fantasy VI".


You don't have to defend me here and I understand your desire to keep it closer to Woolsey. I am doing what I can to preserve that same feeling within the script as best as I can. I believe that the next update, while majorly significant, will still fall into the projects goals while, at the same time, being more accurate to the story.

BTW, my user name is Rodimus Primal. Not Rodimal. If you're a Transformers fan, you'd understand where that came from.

Hot Rod became Rodimus Prime. My favorite Transformers character because he is so relatable by being a leader who is very hot headed and doubts himself constantly after living in the shadow of Optimus Prime. I find myself in those same shoes frequently.
I was a fan of Beast Wars when I first joined message boards and Optimus Primal was the leader of the Maximals (descendants of the Autobots). I followed suit and became Rodimus Primal.


Digitsie

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Sorry, Rodimus! I had Optimal Optimus on the brain at the time for some reason.

hairy_hen

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I certainly don’t want to get involved in any arguments about script-writing, but since this is a game that is both popular and polarizing in terms of which version people prefer, it illustrates why there’s room for different takes on how to write it. It seems to me that no one version is going to satisfy everybody, so having some measure of choice in what kind of script to play the game with can be beneficial for those who have strong preferences.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 11:46:12 am by hairy_hen »

Rodimus Primal

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I certainly don’t want to get involved in any arguments about script-writing, but since this is a game that is both popular and polarizing in terms of which version people prefer, it illustrates why there’s room for different takes on how to write it. It seems to me that no one version is going to satisfy everybody, so having some measure of choice in what kind of script to play the game with can be beneficial for those who have strong preferences.

I can only hope that any argument about it is buried as I didn't want any disagreements to get out of hand like I believe it has.

As for choices, I certainly gave many folks choices by having six patches to choose from. Some people prefer the Woolsey version of the Opera scene while the Slattery version is preferred by others and is even used in some live performances. Some people want as many bugs as possible fixed, and others don't. Some like the enhancements and others don't. It difficult to manage them all and when I import the script into the ROM, I have to make sure I'm using the correct dialog file.

I think I will go with ADDING the extra bit for Setzer's intro while keeping Woolsey's original line. It goes best with keeping in line with the projects goals.

Thirteen 1355

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I was watching a video of the Woolsey Uncensored final Kefka speech bit, comparing it to the original FF3SNES US translation. I noticed that, while in the original, Kefka says "Think how meaningless each of your lives is!", in the Uncensored version, he says "Think how meaningless each of your lives are!".

I am pretty certain that the correct grammar is that used in the original, rather than the grammar used in the Uncensored version. 'Each' is singular, as in 'each one'.

This may have already been changed, since the video showing this bit is uploaded at Sep 20, 2018, but it's worth pointing out just in case, I thought.

Rodimus Primal

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I was watching a video of the Woolsey Uncensored final Kefka speech bit, comparing it to the original FF3SNES US translation. I noticed that, while in the original, Kefka says "Think how meaningless each of your lives is!", in the Uncensored version, he says "Think how meaningless each of your lives are!".

I am pretty certain that the correct grammar is that used in the original, rather than the grammar used in the Uncensored version. 'Each' is singular, as in 'each one'.

This may have already been changed, since the video showing this bit is uploaded at Sep 20, 2018, but it's worth pointing out just in case, I thought.

Your right. It's been corrected now, at least with the upcoming update.

June 23, 2019, 07:27:46 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Okay guys, Version 2.02 has been submitted for approval. This is a MAJOR script update. With the help of BlazeHeatnix, in addition to Kwhazit's website and Mato's comparison, I believe this finally brings the project where it needed to be.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 07:27:46 pm by Rodimus Primal »

Heaven Piercing Man

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Have we gone gold?

BlazeHeatnix

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Your right. It's been corrected now, at least with the upcoming update.

June 23, 2019, 07:27:46 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Okay guys, Version 2.02 has been submitted for approval. This is a MAJOR script update. With the help of BlazeHeatnix, in addition to Kwhazit's website and Mato's comparison, I believe this finally brings the project where it needed to be.

I feel like I didn't contribute to this project properly.

In the end, I only looked at about 20% of the game's script, and most of my suggestions were a far cry from this project's focus that you (rightfully) rejected. I don't think I'm worth crediting here.

Rodimus Primal

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I feel like I didn't contribute to this project properly.

In the end, I only looked at about 20% of the game's script, and most of my suggestions were a far cry from this project's focus that you (rightfully) rejected. I don't think I'm worth crediting here.

But you do though. After I went through your suggestions and began work on it, I knew that one of my goals was to make the script more accurate while still being in line with Woolsey's original. It made me give a REALLY hard look at the script. I ended up watching most of Mato's video analysis because of it and read Kwhazit's website too. So really this is a thanks to everyone who did any contribution to FFVI, including yourself!

Version 2.02 is ready for download!

svenge

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I found a bug during the opening battles when Terra, Biggs, and Wedge are fighting in Magitek Armor.  For some reason you can actually select the blank spaces in Biggs/Wedge's attack menu (there's Fire/Lightning/Blizzard/Healing and 4 empty slots) and then upon their turn a blank box will appear and the character will move forward to attack (and always miss).  I also tested Mog's "Dance" menu and it thankfully didn't have the same problem.

Rodimus Primal

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I found a bug during the opening battles when Terra, Biggs, and Wedge are fighting in Magitek Armor.  For some reason you can actually select the blank spaces in Biggs/Wedge's attack menu (there's Fire/Lightning/Blizzard/Healing and 4 empty slots) and then upon their turn a blank box will appear and the character will move forward to attack (and always miss).  I also tested Mog's "Dance" menu and it thankfully didn't have the same problem.

Interesting. I took a look into my archive folder and this has been present as far back as the beginning. When I used a name expansion patch, it may have messed with the Magitek menu making the blank spaces selectable. It might either be assassin's patch or its compatibility with FF3USME.