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Author Topic: Final Fantasy VI SNES Woolsey Uncensored Edition (Updated - Version 2.07)  (Read 222634 times)

91-MPH

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How about this?

...free spirit who soars the skies, far above the constraints of conventional morality.

How about...

...free spirit who soars the skies,
where law has no meaning...


Just to fit into the limitations of the text box.

Also, because the law is neither good nor bad (or definitely bad, in case of the Gestalian Empire), it can help imply Setzer as a non-conformist.
So, because he follow his own moral code, he's basically questioning the code that's already established.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 05:24:15 pm by 91-MPH »

Rodimus Primal

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How about...

...free spirit who soars the skies,
where law has no meaning...


Just to fit into the limitations of the text box.

Also, because the law is neither good nor bad (or definitely bad, in case of the Gestalian Empire), it can help imply Setzer as a non-conformist.
So, if he does follow his own moral code, he's basically questioning the code that's already established.

I like that. Yes, the original Japanese is literally right and wrong, which BlazeHeatnix got right with morality. But he does have his own moral code as a non conformist like you said. Free spirit covers his independence, the skies is where he takes to for him to do so. It's the skies that are his world, where things like right and wrong (morality) and law have no meaning. Technically that would be lawlessness. He does end up joining the Returners because the Empire has made his business bad. So he ends up a chip on their pile (Ante up!) I know we're arguing over semantics, but take his character into account into what works to fit into the text box.

Or perhaps -

free spirit who soars the skies
where laws cannot bind him...

Edit- If we say law that would imply that he's a criminal, but that's not actually his character. He does his own thing. He's as the Sky Render translation put it, "liberated from the world below."
Perhaps "away from society's norms..."

July 07, 2019, 06:23:45 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
After really thinking it through, and re-reading Mato's notes about it, I think I want to finalize on this:

A blackjack-playing,
world-traveling, casino-dwelling
free spirit who soars the skies
where he can do as he pleases...

It fits within the text box, it describes that the sky is the world where he can be a free spirit, and combines all of our ideas together here all the while keeping Woolsey's original line.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 06:23:45 pm by Rodimus Primal »

BlazeHeatnix

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Since I don't know anything about hex editing, I took a more pragmatic approach to solving the issue that svenge already had: after a bit of talk with the creator, it's now possible to edit battle messages in FF6Tools, and it doesn't seem to conflict with anything edited in FF3usME or bloat the rom size either.



vivify93

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Ooh, how fun! Is that build publicly available yet?

Edit - Yes, it is. On the online version, at least.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 11:41:25 am by vivify93 »
All my life I've tried to fight what history has given me.

svenge

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Since I don't know anything about hex editing, I took a more pragmatic approach to solving the issue that svenge already had: after a bit of talk with the creator, it's now possible to edit battle messages in FF6Tools, and it doesn't seem to conflict with anything edited in FF3usME or bloat the rom size either.

Now I feel redundant.  :P

That said, I do like the concept of replacing "Exp. Point(s)" and "Gil" (upper case) with "EXP" and "gil" (lower case) as you illustrated. 

Chronosplit

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While on the subject of translations, let's talk about one infamous weapon in the game:
Not gonna lie, before I saw the image I thought this was going to be about Heaven's Cloud.  It's almost as bad, but at least they all had a similar theme.

I actually had no idea that The Ogre was a similar weapon, and that it was just called that for being as big as an Ogre.  It made synthesized weapons feel like homebrews in a way.  FFIX tried, but sometimes they just... whoops.

PowerPanda

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BlazeHeatnix, would it be easier for you if you just had the text file with the extracted script? Then you'd have each line's ID number as well. I could get you the one that I extracted using FF3usME, but I know Rodimus Primal has made changes that I don't have yet.

lexluthermiester

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Now I feel redundant.  :P

That said, I do like the concept of replacing "Exp. Point(s)" and "Gil" (upper case) with "EXP" and "gil" (lower case) as you illustrated.
Never been a fan of "gil" as the name of currency. GP always stood for gold pieces which was the classic olde-time fantasy lore way of doing it. I mean really, what the heck is a "gil" anyway...

Rodimus Primal

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Since I don't know anything about hex editing, I took a more pragmatic approach to solving the issue that svenge already had: after a bit of talk with the creator, it's now possible to edit battle messages in FF6Tools, and it doesn't seem to conflict with anything edited in FF3usME or bloat the rom size either.




What is basically happening is the data is rearranged and the pointers are adjusted. As long as it doesn't conflict with data, which I'm sure these editors try to prevent.

Personally I like them as they are (Exp. Points and Gil). GP never bothered me but Gil is a current standard in Final Fantasy currency. It was always two letters. ギル

As for Ogre Nix/Organyx, I kind of like the pun too. Organyx does seem to combine them pretty well. So would Ogrenix. What's everyone else think?

Also, during the Opera, or right before it, Locke sees Celes in the dressing room. There's a mistranslation that's been talked about before that I wanted to address.

Quote
Locke: I...once abandoned someone when she needed me...

In Japanese he basically says

Quote
Locke: I’m… tired of losing girls I like after being unable to do anything for them.

GBA went with this route:
Quote
Locke:...Because I'm tired of standing by and doing nothing while I lose girls I like.

Some REALLY don't like the direct translation because Locke is flat out telling Celes he likes her, but the SNES translation makes a stronger connection to Rachel. This has been there for a while but I kept the original line and added something to get behind Locke's motivations from the original Japanese. 

Quote
Locke: I...once abandoned someone when she needed me...
I couldn't let that happen again...

But the more I think about it, I know its a mistranslation that still does get the point across. After all, Celes follows up with the line:

Quote
Celes: Somewhere inside you were saving...her, weren't you...?

My question is, should the line be readjusted to be better translated or does this fit well in context?

Heaven Piercing Man

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I prefer the more faithful way because damn, they're not pulling any punches with the love interest here.

I dunno, word it in a casual way to fit the TW style, I guess, because the original/GBA moment feels more slow and awkward between Locke and Celes.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 02:37:57 pm by Heaven Piercing Man »

BlazeHeatnix

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Well, I would argue we want to avoid changing characterizations even if it's something that Woolsey originally did. If Locke is the type of guy who'd blurt out that he likes a girl, that's just who he is. However, here's the whole context of the scene in the SNES version:

Quote
Celes: Locke. Why did you help me escape back there?
Quote
Locke: I…once abandoned someone when she needed me…
Quote
Celes: Somewhere inside you were saving…her, weren’t you…?

The Japanese is something like this:

Quote
Celes: Locke. Why did you help me back then?
Quote
Locke: I’m… tired of losing girls I like after being unable to do anything for them.
Quote
Celes: Am I just a substitute…for her?

So, in the case of Rachel (and this is off my memory, so forgive me if I'm dead wrong), Locke didn't "abandon" her. He doesn't blame himself for leaving her when he did, he blames himself for her losing her memory which led to her no longer being at his side. Her father beat it into him that it was his fault and he should've protected her better. That's what he believes: that if she hadn't lost her memory, she'd still be alive.

I may be wrong, but I think what the Japanese is trying to get across is that Celes feels like Locke only cares about her because she reminds him of Rachel. At this point in the story, Celes already has feelings for Locke, and further on when he accuses her of betraying the Returners, this heartbreak comes to a head.

octorox

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Also, during the Opera, or right before it, Locke sees Celes in the dressing room. There's a mistranslation that's been talked about before that I wanted to address.

In Japanese he basically says

GBA went with this route:
Some REALLY don't like the direct translation because Locke is flat out telling Celes he likes her, but the SNES translation makes a stronger connection to Rachel. This has been there for a while but I kept the original line and added something to get behind Locke's motivations from the original Japanese. 

But the more I think about it, I know its a mistranslation that still does get the point across. After all, Celes follows up with the line:

My question is, should the line be readjusted to be better translated or does this fit well in context?

This is a case where I like the Woolsey line better, accuracy be damned. I just think it's better dialogue, whereas the GBA and Japanese versions sound a bit juvenile and on-the-nose.

Digitsie

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Could you do something like

"Am I just... your atonement for her?"

BlazeHeatnix

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I too think the Woolsey line is better, but I think it still needs elements like Celes not feeling comfortable with being Rachel's replacement. Here's how I would write it:

Quote
Celes: Locke… Why did you help me escape back there?
Quote
Locke: …Because I once couldn't protect someone when she needed me most.
Quote
Celes: I see… So somewhere inside you were saving her. Am I just…her replacement?

BlazeHeatnix, would it be easier for you if you just had the text file with the extracted script? Then you'd have each line's ID number as well. I could get you the one that I extracted using FF3usME, but I know Rodimus Primal has made changes that I don't have yet.
I'm not sure what you mean. I don't have any difficulties altering the script right now.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 07:00:53 pm by BlazeHeatnix »

octorox

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I too think the Woolsey line is better, but I think it still needs elements like Celes not feeling comfortable with being Rachel's replacement.

Honestly I think that's still there, it's just subtext rather than being spelled out for the player. I think this is an example of creative liberties more so than a mistranslation or censorship, and I'd be inclined to leave it as it currently is.

BlazeHeatnix

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I don't see it that way. It just seems like "oh ok so you felt like you were saving her. Makes sense." There's a limit to how subtle you can be before the average joe doesn't get it.

Rodimus Primal

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I like the Woolsey line the best as well wording wise, just not the inaccuracy. As we can see, it's not that he abandoned her, he just wasn't there to protect her and he doesn't want it to happen again, and as the Japanese says to girls he likes. This is why I added the line "I couldn't let that happen again." It is very on the nose in the original text, which is the reason I kept the original Woosley line in the first place. I also like the idea of adding to Celes' following line adding the missing information.

That being said, how does this sound?

Quote
Celes: Locke, Why did you help me escape back then?
Quote
Locke: I...was not there to protect someone when she needed me. I couldn't let that happen again...
Quote
Celes: Somewhere inside you were saving...her, weren't you? Am I...just her replacement?

BlazeHeatnix

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Looking at it again, I think another issue is Locke isn't making it clear just how special this person was to him. It sounds like he just couldn't protect a friend, not a lover, which would make Celes's reaction a little strange.

Switching topics for a brief moment, some minor strings could use tweaks:

Quote
Stole (item) × 1 !
You can't steal more than one item at a time, so the "x 1" is a bit redundant.

Quote
Can't dive!!
This is meant to be "can't leap!" as it's referring to Gau's Leap command. Diving implies Gau's going under the enemy, not over.

Quote
Can’t probe target!
"Scan" might be a bit more appropriate than "probe"...just sounds a bit weird.

Quote
Mastered a new technique!
It's not clear that this refers to bushido, specifically.

Quote
Ogre Nix was broken!
This still uses Woolsey's name for the weapon. It also wasn't broken by anything, it broke on its own. So it should be "Ogrenix broke!"
« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 11:08:34 pm by BlazeHeatnix »

octorox

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I like the Woolsey line the best as well wording wise, just not the inaccuracy. As we can see, it's not that he abandoned her, he just wasn't there to protect her and he doesn't want it to happen again, and as the Japanese says to girls he likes. This is why I added the line "I couldn't let that happen again." It is very on the nose in the original text, which is the reason I kept the original Woosley line in the first place. I also like the idea of adding to Celes' following line adding the missing information.

That being said, how does this sound?

I'm fine with that, although I'd change "back then" to "back there"

Dzumeister

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Post #1/Post #2/Post #3/Post #4/Post #5/Post #6

Got to the opera scene. Just my two cents, I'm in favor of Celes asking if she's just Rachel's replacement for Locke. Up to that point, she keeps asking Locke why he saved her in the first place. She's insecure in her feelings for him, and this is especially apparent if you have them together in the party when you visit Rachel's resting place. Her directly asking Locke about it is a strong character moment in my opinion. Anyway, still playing on v2.03.


This one's super minor. I just disagree with the wording here. Setzer's coming to steal her makes it sound as if she's an object rather than a person. Changing it to kidnap or abduct fixes this.


Another minor one that has to do with the phrasing in the first sentence. That's why we're using her as a decoy! cleans this up a bit.


just double-checking that these sfx got asterisks


There's no differentiation in the opera script other than the periods of ellipsis that it's direction and not her lines. The next part of it has parentheses, but I think the parentheses should start here. Also, maybe it'd look good to have a hyphen before each signature from now on, like in the previous post with Setzer? Kind of like:
- The Impresario


Unnecessary commas here. Should just read Prince Ralse of the East took her hand by force.


Another instance of where I'd like to see a hyphen for signatures.
- Ultros


This one read a little awkwardly to me, maybe consider: "The Westerners are attacking!"


I just disagreed with the spelling of Aiya! here.


The sound of the stuttering didn't make sense to me here. Setzer wouldn't make a W sound, it'd be more like: Wh-who're YOU?


Missing ending punctuation


I thought this sentence was phrased awkwardly, particularly the second part. Rather than asking if it could crash, maybe replace with: How does it stay airborne?
May also consider a Star Wars reference, since Woolsey makes several anyway, and the airship later is even named the Falcon.
What a piece of junk! How does it stay airborne?


I don't think grabbed is the right word here. Abducted/taken/kidnapped might work better for such a crime.


Super minor, but there seems to be an extra space after General Celes!!


Just double-checking again that asterisks have been added


Not really important, but I remembered that since they refer to Celes as a Magitek Knight in the story and her description, maybe her class name in the menu screen should reflect that? Instead of Rune Knight, maybe M-tek Knight could work, since it's used to refer to the enemies due to spacing limitations?


The C is capitalized in Bolt Scroll.


There's an extra space after Setzer says Right.


Minor thing, but Terra refers to her birthplace as the Esper's World, when it should probably just be the Esper World. For example, you say the human world and not the humans' world. If the possessive is kept, then the apostrophe should be after the s.


Not sure why the choices are phrased as questions, since they should be answers to the question that's already being asked. Periods should work fine.


Awkward verb, consider changing to wake instead of awaken.


Super minor, but maybe change to 1,000? I believe this occurs in the opening as well.


Spacing issue in D'goh! Also... what even is that


Dialogue should be: W-w-we're being sucked out!


Should be *shriek*
Also, what even is a veritable bonanza? Consider changing to: Just when we had absolute power in our grasp...!


Unnecessary capitalization. Let's go!


I don't think amidships is the proper term here. Consider changing to: Press the X button to return to the deck.


I don't think smug is the proper term here, and the phrasing is a little awkward, too. Maybe try: We can't get cocky. We have to keep planning our next move.
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