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Author Topic: Final Fantasy VI SNES Woolsey Uncensored Edition (Updated - Version 2.06)  (Read 192267 times)

lexluthermiester

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I found a bug during the opening battles when Terra, Biggs, and Wedge are fighting in Magitek Armor.  For some reason you can actually select the blank spaces in Biggs/Wedge's attack menu (there's Fire/Lightning/Blizzard/Healing and 4 empty slots) and then upon their turn a blank box will appear and the character will move forward to attack (and always miss).  I also tested Mog's "Dance" menu and it thankfully didn't have the same problem.
I noticed this too, but it's not game breaking. No big deal really.

Rodimus Primal

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Thanks to Gi Nattak for finding the fix to this. It seems to have been an issue with older versions of FF3USME that caused it along with the Name Expansion patch used in TWUE. The current version of FF3USME is 6.8.0 and using it, I opened the Battle Editor, opened the Magitek tab, clicked OK, then saved. This fixed the problem. Basically it rewrote the Magitek check for blank spaces properly.

Anyway, Version 2.03 is ready for download and it has this bug corrected.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 01:05:17 pm by Rodimus Primal »

lexluthermiester

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Thanks to Gi Nattak for finding the fix to this. It seems to have been an issue with older versions of FF3USME that caused it along with the Name Expansion patch used in TWUE. The current version of FF3USME is 6.8.0 and using it, I opened the Battle Editor, opened the Magitek tab, clicked OK, then saved. This fixed the problem. Basically it rewrote the Magitek check for blank spaces properly.
Interesting.
Anyway, Version 2.03 is ready for download and it has this bug corrected.
Just tried it, looks fixed! :thumbsup:

Rodimus Primal

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Interesting. Just tried it, looks fixed! :thumbsup:

That's good to hear. Hopefully everything else works as it should. I hope people try out the latest version. I put a lot of hours working on it hoping to make it the best bridging that gap between accuracy and Woolsey's original script.

Thirteen 1355

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My boyfriend will for sure, once he's finished with FF5 (using GBA script port). I will once I've finally gotten through the slog that is Final Fantasy II (the PS1 remake), III, IV Namingway, and V GBA script port  :'(

lexluthermiester

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That's good to hear. Hopefully everything else works as it should. I hope people try out the latest version. I put a lot of hours working on it hoping to make it the best bridging that gap between accuracy and Woolsey's original script.
Currently working through the game again. The savegames for 2.01 seemed unaffected by the changes in 2.03. Liking it so far! :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 01:58:49 pm by lexluthermiester »

Dzumeister

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Playing through patch 2.03 on my SNES Classic! Great work with everything, hope it stands up to the excellent GBA script. I have a few notes on stuff I've noticed so far:



Found a typo from a conversation with Edgar at Figaro. 'Crumptets' should be spelled 'crumpets'.


Definitely just a minor thing, but grammatically, I think the quotation marks should enclose the word before the sentence ends in a period. In these cases, it would be "magic" and "Magi" before ending in the period.


Another minor thing: it seems off to have a comma preceding a pause (...), especially when the script could have just read
It doesn't look like it, but this castle incorporates some of the most high-tech devices in existence. For example...


I know a lot of players enjoy the work Ted Woolsey did for Square's localization, but I think there are some quirks that can still be smoothed out. Stuttering in speech is kind of awkward when written as "Dddddddd", and it can be cleaned up as "D-d-did".

Whispering sound effects can be kind of crude, and maybe "Edgar Locke:" could be changed to "Edgar & Locke" or "Edgar and Locke" for clarity, while PSWPWPWPWPSPWP could be *whispering*.

I know this line is loved by Woolsey fans, but as someone who didn't grow up with the SNES localization as their first playthrough, it doesn't really make any sense. The GBA localization reads, "Son of a sandworm!" instead, which at least makes sense in context of the world that the characters live in.

I'm just not sure why "Magic" needs to be in quotes here, or in Terra's following dialogue.


I think the use of a possessive apostrophe is needed here for "the Returners' hideout".

Hope this helps, and thanks for all the good work! I'll be looking for other standouts as well.

July 01, 2019, 02:05:59 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Playing through patch 2.03 on my SNES Classic! Great work with everything, hope it stands up to the excellent GBA script. I have a few notes on stuff I've noticed so far:



Found a typo from a conversation with Edgar at Figaro. 'Crumptets' should be spelled 'crumpets'.


Definitely just a minor thing, but grammatically, I think the quotation marks should enclose the word before the sentence ends in a period. In these cases, it would be "magic" and "Magi" before ending in the period. The Legends of Localization script also has it written as "magic" and "Magi".


Another minor thing: it seems off to have a comma preceding a pause (...), especially when the script could have just read
It doesn't look like it, but this castle incorporates some of the most high-tech devices in existence. For example...


I know a lot of players enjoy the work Ted Woolsey did for Square's localization, but I think there are some quirks that can still be smoothed out. Stuttering in speech is kind of awkward when written as "Dddddddd", and it can be cleaned up as "D-d-did".

Whispering sound effects can be kind of crude, and maybe "Edgar Locke:" could be changed to "Edgar & Locke" or "Edgar and Locke" for clarity, while PSWPWPWPWPSPWP could be *whispering*.

I know this line is loved by Woolsey fans, but as someone who didn't grow up with the SNES localization as their first playthrough, it doesn't really make any sense. The GBA localization reads, "Son of a sandworm!" instead, which at least makes sense in context of the world that the characters live in.

I'm just not sure why "Magic" needs to be in quotes here, or in Terra's following dialogue.


I think the use of a possessive apostrophe is needed here for "the Returners' hideout".

Hope this helps, and thanks for all the good work! I'll be looking for other standouts as well.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 02:06:10 am by Dzumeister »
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svenge

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Definitely just a minor thing, but grammatically, I think the quotation marks should enclose the word before the sentence ends in a period. In these cases, it would be "magic" and "Magi" before ending in the period.

That's one of those American English vs. British English differences.  In this instance the patch is using American grammar rules for quotation marks, which is a valid choice.

Since I also don't see a truckload of extraneous instances of the letter "u" in words like color either, it seems to be in line with the rest of the patch's text formatting.

Dzumeister

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That's one of those American English vs. British English differences.  In this instance the patch is using American grammar rules for quotation marks, which is a valid choice.

Since I also don't see a truckload of extraneous instances of the letter "u" in words like color either, it seems to be in line with the rest of the patch's text formatting.

Oh, I thought that since this was using quotation marks to highlight words, periods and other ending punctuation wouldn't be used within them, since the punctuation applies to the whole sentence and not just the word.

Another thing I found from the Legends of Localization script that came out recently:

Quote
Edgar: That's Shadow, the assassin! He'd kill his best friend for the right price...

In hairy_hen's notes, they refer to Woolsey's iconic line as being loved for its phrasing and memorability. However:
Quote
This was a tough one.  People really like the Woolsey line, and I didn’t especially want to change it.  But I later realized that the specific use of ‘best friend’ here is a reference to Shadow’s hidden backstory, where it turns out he actually couldn’t kill his best friend.  Because of this story connection, I felt I couldn’t leave it out without changing the intended character writing.


I have to say I agree with this choice here. "I hear he'd slit his mama's throat for a nickel" sounds more gossipy and not really something that a king like Edgar would say. I think the GBA script also references the 'best friend' line as well, though I don't remember clearly.
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Heaven Piercing Man

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The "best friend" version is more suited for Hairy Hen's script. This project is more Woolsey focused, so that line should be a must for the aims of this project.

svenge

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Oh, I thought that since this was using quotation marks to highlight words, periods and other ending punctuation wouldn't be used within them, since the punctuation applies to the whole sentence and not just the word.

I see what you're getting at, but even in that use case (i.e. using quotation marks around single words to indicate the introduction of a preexisting term) the patch's grammar was still correct from the American point of view. 

That said, it might have been better to rearrange those particular sentences so that they don't end with a word within quotation marks.  The downside to doing so it that it would increase the complexity of those sentences, as they are currently constructed in the simplest manner possible.  You could make it read:

"Magic" was a force the ancients once yielded.
"Magi" was the name given to those who mastered that art.


...but then they sound much too passive for basic "exposition dump" sentences.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 01:24:11 pm by svenge »

hairy_hen

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Stuff like that illustrates why it's good to have options for the player to choose from.  A lot of it is just down to personal preference, and isn't a matter of being correct or not: it really just depends what the goal of it is.  Ideally, perhaps, there would have been just one really great official translation from the start, and nobody would have to think about any of this stuff, but oh well.

I was rather torn on removing certain SNES lines, and only reconciled to doing it when I realized it needed to be sufficiently different from Rodimus' version to justify existing in the first place: otherwise, it would have just been a minor variation without much purpose.  It looks like a lot of the changes he's made to this new update are similar to the way I wrote them (perhaps inevitable as the translation gets to be more accurate), so preserving a distinction between one that keeps many 'Woolseyisms' and one that only has a few of them makes things clearer for the player, according to their own preference.

From what I've seen so far, this is an impressive update for Woolsey Uncensored.

lexluthermiester

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The "best friend" version is more suited for Hairy Hen's script. This project is more Woolsey focused, so that line should be a must for the aims of this project.
I have to agree with this. The whole point of the project is to keep with the style and unique mannerisms of Mr. Woolsey, which in that case are right on par with his way of "speaking".

Dzumeister

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I have to agree with this. The whole point of the project is to keep with the style and unique mannerisms of Mr. Woolsey, which in that case are right on par with his way of "speaking".

I understand your points of view, but I think dialogue that is important to character takes priority over Woolsey-isms. If you changed it to this:

Quote
I hear he'd slit his best friend's throat for a nickel!

would it really be that different?

Another problem I have for it is... what's a nickel in this universe? The currency is Gil, right?
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BlazeHeatnix

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I understand your points of view, but I think dialogue that is important to character takes priority over Woolsey-isms. If you changed it to this:

would it really be that different?

Another problem I have for it is... what's a nickel in this universe? The currency is Gil, right?

It would be less quotable and memorable. The scope of this project is Woolsey. Woolsey-isms take priority over character accuracies. If you have that much of a problem with it, then this is not the hack for you. And besides, my first time playing FFVI was the GBA version, and I never got that that line was a reference to Shadow's past.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 06:59:04 pm by BlazeHeatnix »

Chaos Rush

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I’ve never played any version of Final Fantasy VI but I think I’ll give my thoughts on the accuracy vs. sounding-natural debate. As someone who has somewhat of a bilingual background (not stably, I was initially raised as bilingual, then moved countries during childhood and slowly became monolingual but then in recent years made efforts to become bilingual again), to me translation is more like getting the same ideas and concepts across in a way that sounds natural in either language; finding cultural equivalents to evoke similar emotions from the audience. Sometimes it involves saying something completely different but actually means the same thing when cultural context is applied (for instance if I wanted to say something to my dad I would say it a certain way in language A, whereas if I wanted to say the same thing to my mom in language B, what I would say would not be a direct translation but instead a cultural equivalent).

I’m not a professional translator nor have I played any version of FFVI so maybe I’m not qualified to say any of this, but from what I can gather it sounds like Woolsey’s way of doing things was to make things sound natural, and Slattery’s way of doing things is to translate literally but in a way that’s grammatically correct. I think I would prefer Woolsey’s way (as long all important bits of information relevant to the story are maintained), hence why Slattery’s translations are always criticized as ‘dry’. I played through the English DS version of Chrono Trigger (the only version of CT I’ve ever played) and it was difficult to follow the plot because the way the script is written was just so bland.

Eventually when I get around to playing Final Fantasy VI, I’ll play it in Japanese first and then in English using TWUE (and maybe look at clips of the English GBA version on YouTube).
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 10:18:26 pm by Chaos Rush »

BlazeHeatnix

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I think I would prefer Woolsey’s way (as long all important bits of information relevant to the story are maintained), hence why Slattery’s translations are always criticized as ‘dry’. I played through the English DS version of Chrono Trigger (the only version of CT I’ve ever played) and it was difficult to follow the plot because the way the script is written was just so bland.

That's not a Slattery problem, it's a Square-Enix problem. His script for FFV Advance blows Woolsey's original out of the water (for the most part),and his work for FFVI Advance keeps a lot of the same flavor as Woolsey's. There's many instances in FFVI Advance where the script actually ADDS humor and flavor where Woolsey hadn't. The only slight flaw with either of these works is that they're a bit wordy. Economy of words is not Slattery's strong suit, but other than that, they're pretty damn good.

But then, Final Fantasy XII happened, and suddenly EVERY Square-Enix project started having a more flowery, olde-English tone to the English script if it was a medieval fantasy setting, unless it was something like XIII with a more modern, futuristic setting. Their most recent RPG, Octopath Traveler, STILL uses that olde-English style, and Slattery had nothing to do with that one.

As for Chrono Trigger, Slattery admitted that he never grew up with that game and had no idea how to approach it, that it was a rush job, and he couldn't do what he originally wanted to do. Originally, Frog's way of speaking was going to be applied to the NPCs, not the other way around. So I don't really blame him for that. Really, his scripts are good, and I would say that's the only exception.
http://www.rpgamer.com/features/insidegaming/tslatteryint.html
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 12:51:28 am by BlazeHeatnix »

vivify93

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Slattery didn't do the majority of the work on FFV Advance. That was Erin M. Ellis.
All my life I've tried to fight what history has given me.

BlazeHeatnix

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Slattery didn't do the majority of the work on FFV Advance. That was Erin M. Ellis.

...Huh. Ok. I stand corrected.

Rodimus Primal

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I cannot stress enough how much I don't like the DS/Steam translation of Chrono Trigger. Like you said literal vs natural. Direct vs localized. I have fond memories playing through the SNES game multiple times even before the PS1 version came out. SO many of my favorite lines are completely gone in the DS version. Plus that font is abysmal and I wish I could import the blasted Chicago font instead.

Now as for the infamous Woolsey lines in FFVI, they're not changing. I may be working hard to bring the script closer in accuracy by fixing translation mistakes, but these lines are memorable for a reason. I mean, think about it. It's like Spoony Bard in Final Fantasy IV (which is in EVERY localization of that game despite being inaccurate). I really don't understand this extreme desire to change them recently. Would you have me go back into Namingway Edition and take out Spoony Bard for the sake of accuracy? It's the same thing.

Son of Submariner makes sense. It's Kefka's crazy way of referencing the fact that Figaro Castles SUBMERGED into the sand. It is also one of the most famous lines from the SNES translation of the game. I did change "They'll pay for this!" to "You'll pay for this!" since he is probably yelling at Edgar, Locke, and Terra. Also, the GBA was just doing its own thing to be different, as Mato states in his article.

Slit his mama's throat for a nickel. Yes, we know. Nickels do not technically exist in the world of Final Fantasy, since Gil is their currency. But a nickel is five cents here in the US. So maybe a nickel in FFVI is 5 Gil. It's also, again, a memorable line that adds a bit of badass bravado to Shadow that literal translation fails to do in English. I DID alter that line slightly though. I added, under suggestion, that he's an assassin, since that IS more accurate.

I'm going to work on the typos now. However, US English does have a rule that a periods go in the quotation marks, so that is correct.