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Author Topic: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators  (Read 27631 times)

DougRPG

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2013, 10:42:58 pm »
It's strange that, these days (2013), there are "romhackers" that doesn't use Bsnes to at least test their hacks. Seems like quality is not a concern.

In my opinion it's mandatory for a romhack to work on the real hardware, because this way the hack will last forever. Otherwise it's a waste of time, because the hack failed and it will be remembered as an example of a bad work.

Skeud

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2013, 05:49:14 am »
Can someone change the false assumption in the news, as it was already noticed here. Zsnes was perfectly working with TOP, which is a 6MB game, so is bsnes.
Sad to see disinformations on this website, because of obvious lack of knowledge from the man who wrote the news (LostTemplar was pretty clear on bsnes's mapping format..).

Everybody likes to update to the "lastest software version", to get close to perfection, but there are still people using a 5-years old emulator which obviously has flaw.
With flashcards, it is easier to play on real SNES, so, a hack creator would be happy to have his creation working on the "real" thing.

puzzledude

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2013, 07:58:35 am »
Can someone change the false assumption in the news, as it was already noticed here. Zsnes was perfectly working with TOP, which is a 6MB game, so is bsnes.
Sad to see disinformations on this website, because of obvious lack of knowledge from the man who wrote the news

It is YOU who is lacking the knowledge. TOP is NOT an Exlorom, sure it has 6MB, but that really doesn't matter. No original Snes console was ever programmed to handle Exlo or Exhi roms.

But you can NOT expand a game, which was originaly bellow 4MB, above this number. If you repoint the data from a standard Lorom! (and no, this is not TOP), above 4MB, it will Not work in Zsnes.

If you repoint the data from a standard Lorom! (and no, this is not TOP), above 6MB, it will Not work in any emulator (except the new Fusoya emus).

And by working I mean loading the game in the program. You can not expect of some player to make a custom reprogramming to play your game, when so many can't even patch it correctly.

An emu that needs a never-before-seen reprogramming to be able to run a badly squared picture, and takes 5 minutes to load a title screen is like a worm on a hook, while the new Zsnes and snes9x emus are a Shark.

It's strange that, these days (2013), there are "romhackers" that doesn't use Bsnes to at least test their hacks. Seems like quality is not a concern.

In my opinion it's mandatory for a romhack to work on the real hardware, because this way the hack will last forever. Otherwise it's a waste of time, because the hack failed and it will be remembered as an example of a bad work.


Like I mentioned before, Bsnes runs extremly slow in most of the computers, disallowing you to test anything. What a tester wants is the opposite, he wants to speed up the emulation. Plus bsnes has no video filters, making the picture quite squared.

You want the hack to work on a real harware. How many working Snes consoles are in the world currently and where can you buy them? The answer is zero to none. My snes console gave up years ago. 80 percent of all players will most surely put the game in Zsnes, the rest will use some other emus.

You should know that a hack is released as an ips/patch file, not a rom file, and guess what, a cart is a rom, making any cart with a hack illegal, specially in a combination with selling.

So why would a hacker want it to work on a real cart?... so that 1 percent of all players will play it there? And so that cart makers/sellers can earn big money on someone else's work?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 08:41:25 am by puzzledude »

Bregalad

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2013, 08:03:27 am »
Quote
Plus bsens has no video filters, making the picture quite squared.
Huh ? You should have had an old version. BSNES supports all filters, including NTSC. If I want the most accurate experience, I'll use BSNES with NTSC filter. It usually runs barely at full speed on my PC, but sometimes it slows downs.

Also I have all emus installed on my PC and always will, for me they complement eachother. I couldn't imagine only have a single emu for a system.

Skeud

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2013, 08:28:54 am »

It is YOU who is lacking the knowledge. TOP is NOT an Exlorom, sure it has 6MB, but that really doesn't matter. No original Snes console was ever programmed to handle Exlo or Exhi roms.
I quote your news :
Quote
The only emulator which supported roms bigger than 4MB was Snes9x (original build) but only up to 6MB, but now we have two of them, both capable of running the biggest SNES roms possible.
You didn't mention "Exlorom" in this false sentence...
And your second sentence shows how wrong you are when you talk about SNES mapping. The mapping isn't inside the SNES console, but in the cartidge. With mapper, you can address 128 mbits. Btw, "lorom" "hirom" aren't even official terms for mapping.

Like I mentioned before, Bsnes runs extremly slow in most of the computers, disallowing you to test anything. What a tester wants is the opposite, he wants to speed up the emulation. Plus bsnes has no video filters, making the picture quite squared.
Any computer less than 5 years old can run the performance core of bSnes. And you don't need the filters to debug your code.

You can not expect of some player to make a custom reprogramming to play your game
I guess you don't know how bsnes works, and didn't even read LostTemplar's posts...

How many working Snes consoles are in the world currently and where can you buy them? The answer is zero to none.
Well, you can buy a SNES on ebay (423 official and clones currently available). You can buy a clone like RetroDuo for $50


You should know that a hack is released as an ips/patch file, not a rom file, and guess what, a cart is a rom, making any cart with a hack illegal, specially in a combination with selling.
So why would a hacker want it to work on a real cart?... so that 1 percent of all players will play it there? And so that cart makers/sellers can earn big money on someone else's work?
Have you ever heard of Super Everdrive, SD2SNES, UFO8 ? They are very popular and often out of stock. I guess there must be some SNES still alive around the world...
You don't need a cartmod to play on the real thing, and I really don't think anyone would buy a lot of money for a Super Mario World hack anyway...

puzzledude

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2013, 09:19:21 am »
I don't see any need of bringing this debate further. I just wanted to inform everyone about these two new custom emulators. Instead of arguing we should congratulate Fusoya on the job, for making it possible to run any custom extended Snes file with ease.

Nowadays we have 1001 options to play a Snes game, so everyone can choose one. Someone will rather like a real hardware, but I always liked emulation better, and I will be using these two emus from now on.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 01:20:24 pm by puzzledude »

FuSoYa

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2013, 10:45:21 pm »
Just to clear up some confusion:  ExHiROM is sometimes called the "tales" map, as it's simply the 6MB ToP map extended to 8MB (minus a bit for SNES RAM banks).  Which is why if your emulator can run ToP, it can usually run SDW:TLC as well since they use the exact same map.


The official build of Snes9x already supports 8MB ExHiROM, 6MB ExLoROM (see note 1), 8MB SA-1 (see note 2), and 8 MB SDD-1.

The official build of ZSNES already supports 6MB ExHiROM, no ExLoROM, 4MB SA-1 (or 6MB with glitches, see note 3), and 6MB SDD-1.  It will outright refuse to load any ROM file larger than 6MB.

Note 1: Snes9x 1.39a and on already supported 8MB ExLoROM, but it dropped to 6MB in 1.5x (most likely by mistake when someone cleaned up the Map_JumboLoROMMap() function without realizing what it was for).
Note 2: Snes9x didn't fully implement the SA-1's bank switch registers, specifically the high bit.  If the bit is off, it's supposed to set the ROM map for 00-3F/80-BF to specific locations within the first 4MB of the ROM without affecting where you point C0-FF.  You can technically still access all 8MB without it, but it requires constant bank switching and could be bothersome depending on what you want to do with the map and the existing game you're working on.
Note 3: ZSNES allows 6MB with SA-1, but part of the array that holds the ROM was reused for the SA-1 RAM and some other work table.  So you lose the first 2 ROM banks past the 4MB mark, and potentially corrupt others if you use character conversion DMA.


The custom builds are to fix the above issues, and to make sure you get 8MB for all 4 ROM types in both emulators.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 10:59:46 pm by FuSoYa »

Nec5

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2013, 01:38:03 am »
It would appear I have solved the missing .dll problem for SNES9x.  You have to run the Microsoft Direct X installer over again.  Apparently, there are a bunch of files that my version of Windows 7 did not include with its version of Direct X 11.   :P
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puzzledude

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2013, 07:28:04 am »


What Fusoya's contribution to the snes emulation is, is clearly seen in this table. No emulator had Yes in every single spot before. 99 percent of all original snes games are bellow or even with 4MB and the original hardware was programmed to handle 2 to 32Mbit cartridges. So obviously special chips are necessary to run games bigger than that. These are exceptions and are not Ex roms.

99 percent of all roms that go over 4MB should be Ex series (for every game bellow 4MB can be extended over this number to gain space). According to the last rows of the table is it clear, that every simple snes emulator will run a standard (bellow 4MB) rom, but will fail if These roms are extended over 4MB, becoming Ex series.

The statement
"The only emulator which supported ROMs bigger than 4MB was Snes9x (original build) but only up to 6MB."
is true if we are talking about extended! Exloroms, which I didn't mention, but should be clear from the previous paragraph; but is not true, if we are talking about ToP or SO.

So the size of the rom really is not the best parameter, the format, however, is.


It would appear I have solved the missing .dll problem for SNES9x.  You have to run the Microsoft Direct X installer over again.  Apparently, there are a bunch of files that my version of Windows 7 did not include with its version of Direct X 11.   :P
I told you it works.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 03:35:55 pm by puzzledude »

Skeud

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2013, 11:56:39 am »
Did you ever understood LostTemplar's post ? Do you at least understand bSnes's XML mapping format ?
The fact you can't make it work doesn't mean it doesn't, just that you didn't try the right way. I guess you only tried to load your rom using bsnes, with nothing else ?

Using custom XML, you can create any mapping possible. Of course, a little work is needed, but it is still possible.

puzzledude

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2013, 12:40:53 pm »
I've analyzed Bsnes further. It uses sfc format in a folder, rather then a smc in a file. After the "purification" and the editing of the xml, the custom Exlorom is now loading.

However, a pre-purification, a sfc folder with the .rom file and a separate custom .xml file for every single game definitely is not the usual way the snes rom is presented or loaded. Don't you think that doubleclicking on the .smc is easier.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 12:55:03 pm by puzzledude »

vivify93

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2013, 07:41:05 pm »
There's a problem with this new SNES9x.

It now associates with .BIN file types, and now my PlayStation and PlayStation 2 ISOs, as well as my Genesis ROMs, all appear as SNES9x files. I have no knowledge of how to change this, either. It's quite upsetting.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 08:33:18 pm by vivify93 »
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puzzledude

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2013, 06:50:08 am »
A lot of programs will auto associate files. This basicaly allows you to doubleclick them directly, rather than have to load them up.

All you need to do is right click on your Play station etc files and choose Properties, Open with and select the program that runs them, to reassociate them back.

KingMike

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2013, 12:28:33 pm »
There's a problem with this new SNES9x.

It now associates with .BIN file types,
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Skeud

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2013, 03:45:56 pm »
However, a pre-purification, a sfc folder with the .rom file and a separate custom .xml file for every single game definitely is not the usual way the snes rom is presented or loaded. Don't you think that doubleclicking on the .smc is easier.
There is a solution : kaijuu.

FuSoYa

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2013, 03:52:15 pm »
There's a problem with this new SNES9x.

It now associates with .BIN file types, and now my PlayStation and PlayStation 2 ISOs, as well as my Genesis ROMs, all appear as SNES9x files. I have no knowledge of how to change this, either. It's quite upsetting.

It's apparently something from the official 1.53 build (see http://www.snes9x.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5710).

I could either add the new code for OV2's icon fix to this build, or move it to a menu item as gocha did.  Although I'd be all for removing the .bin file extension from the file filters for both emulators anyway.  I never did like seeing .bin files everywhere when browsing for SNES ROMs.

vivify93

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2013, 05:23:51 pm »
It's apparently something from the official 1.53 build (see http://www.snes9x.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5710).

I could either add the new code for OV2's icon fix to this build, or move it to a menu item as gocha did.  Although I'd be all for removing the .bin file extension from the file filters for both emulators anyway.  I never did like seeing .bin files everywhere when browsing for SNES ROMs.
Yes, I figured that out. I apologize for implicating you; that was unjust and uncalled for. But I discovered a fix: promptly switching back to ZSNES! :D
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puzzledude

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2013, 06:05:27 pm »
All the snes9x (original) minor problems actually appeared when the 1.53 (original) was released. The 1.51 did not associate files (which was obviously a good thing) but the 1.53 is.

The 1.51 had a special percentage speed up function, allowing 150, 200, 300 and 400 percent speed, but the 1.53 for some unknown reason lost this ability. Only the fast forward (which is way to fast) is available.

And the 1.51 did not need special DirectX 11 plugins (video and audio dlls), which were suddenly needed in 1.53. I guess those things were changed/lost by accident, but we did gain a 64-bit support.

If you want to switch to Zsnes, that's a solution. But do learn to associate. Not for snes emulation, but for other reasons, since there is a strong chance, that installing any new media program will surely mess up all your media file associations.

etking

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2013, 06:38:26 pm »
Bsnes / higan has a very bad and limited user interface and does not open zipped files but is the only emulator with built-in cheat selection. The UI needs to be improved for readability in higher resolutions as well. I do not care about accuracy as long as every thing runs fine.

Zsnes was my favorite emulator and has the highest compatibility with hacks and translations but it lacks Direct3D image sharpness and 5xBR Shader support. The UI is the best and most functional / user friendly but does not have built-in cheats. Hopefully ZSNES 2.0 will fix all that.

Snes9x is the emulator I currently use, the only reason being Direct3D and 5xBR support. Even without 5xBR filter the image is MUCH sharper and better-looking than ZSNES.

The only reason for me to use bsnes / higan could be the build-in cheat function. It needs zip-File support and a better UI to become my preferred emulator.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 06:54:28 pm by etking »

Superjustinbros

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Re: Utilities: We got some new SNES emulators
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2013, 01:59:14 pm »
The day we get a full on-out Super Game Boy (2) emulator with the full capabilities of palette editing and custom borders will be probably one of the greatest moments in emulator history, at least for me.