Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Multilingual enhancement

[Turambar]

Some of those are good changes. Some of them seem to change the meaning a little bit. Such as adding Luxurious to the silk bag description.

I know what you mean, I just thought that simply calling it a silk bag sounded kind of plain.

I appreciate your review of the dialog text, Turambar, especially if English is your native language.* These are very well welcome ideas, and I will see which ones I will use. The English re-translation was created in just a few hours based on my notes for the Finnish translation (which was months of work), and I have since been doing fixes to it, but most of the English lines still come from that rushed job.

*) There is a user at TASVideos called Turambar, and he is from Finland. I initially assumed you to be him, but that does not seem to be the case.

Yeah, I'm a native speaker of English. I'm not on TASVideos under this name, although I have an account on there that I haven't used in years.
I've been following the TAS community since that Japanese guy did that TAS of Mario 3 that got really popular because everybody though it was done in real time.
I guess it was, uh, 2007 or something.

[Gedankenschild]

I've been playing this hack and while the re-translation is excellent and I know that the dialogue is supposed to be intentionally silly and unhelpful at times, I feel that some of the dialogue is a little bit unnatural sounding at times. I have made a list of changes to the dialogue that I think improve the flow of it while still remaining faithful to the original. I suggest that anybody else who is interested in this re-translation check out my changes and see if you think I've done well.

I read your changes and I think they're really good! Just two parts caught my attention:


"The fastest way to learn how to fight is to fight in places that are unfamiliar to you."

The double usage of the word fight seems a bit inelegant, I think.

"Can't you see that the places reeks of death?"

That should probably be place, right?

[Bisqwit]

Also, the Doina guy used to say, "to never see you again", but someone (granz) complained about the split infinitive, so I changed it to "never to see you again" based on their request.

I am not sure about the "reeks of death" part. By "radiates death" I meant that the spirit/curse emanating from the castle causes all things in its vicinity, really within a quite large radius, to wither and die. I do not get the same gist from the suggested wording. (This is one of the added lines by the way, so there is no Japanese original to compare to.)

You also changed the other Doina guy's dialog to use contractions. Not sure of whether the change is for the good.
This is perhaps because I have found myself using contractions way, way too often, and I have consciously tried to steer my own writing towards fewer contractions.

For the patrolling man tip, "you will surely live longer" might indeed be a more fluent wording, and an acceptable change in terms of localization. The original Japanese text incidentally could also be literally translated as "When you receive a silk bag from <...>, take a long breath", which would actually make sense in conjunction with clue 9, "when you wrap them in a silk bag, a soul/spirit will be blown into your laurels". The Japanese language is really quite ambiguous at times -- what with omitting the subject and/or the object in the sentence being considered practically a virtue for fluent speech.
EDIT: Disregard the above paragraph. I misread the Japanese text when I was writing this post.

[Turambar]

"The fastest way to learn how to fight is to fight in places that are unfamiliar to you."

The double usage of the word fight seems a bit inelegant, I think.

I agree, but I can't think of anything better.

"Can't you see that the places reeks of death?"

That should probably be place, right?

Yeah.

I am not sure about the "reeks of death" part. By "radiates death" I meant that the spirit/curse emanating from the castle causes all things in its vicinity, really within a quite large radius, to wither and die. I do not get the same gist from the suggested wording. (This is one of the added lines by the way, so there is no Japanese original to compare to.)

I used "reeks of death" because I thought it sounded pretty cool that way.  "Radiates death" sounds a little weird. How about "Are you really going to the ruins of the castle? Can you not feel death emanating from there?"

You also changed the other Doina guy's dialog to use contractions. Not sure of whether the change is for the good.
This is perhaps because I have found myself using contractions way, way too often, and I have consciously tried to steer my own writing towards fewer contractions.

I'm not sure which one you mean, do you mean "It's your fault that it's not safe around here anymore. Please, just leave and never return."? A key change is the addition of "that." I think it sounds way smoother with the contractions.

I fixed the typo that Gedankenschild pointed out and refined the silk bag text.

[Bisqwit]

"The fastest way to learn how to fight is to fight in places that are unfamiliar to you."
The double usage of the word fight seems a bit inelegant, I think.

I agree, but I can't think of anything better.

The fastest way to learn to fight is to fight your fights in places where you haven't fought before?

Allright, thanks for the other (and updated) suggestions.

[Turambar]

"Rumor has it that digging up graves in Strigoi Cemetery will yield a giant diamond!"
I noticed that "cemetery" was spelled wrong. I don't know if it's spelled like that in the game or if I just made a typo, I fixed it on the pastebin though. Also, I removed the unnecessary comma after "cemetery."

And another thing, a new suggestion fer fightin'.
"Wanna learn how to fight? Then you should fight in more unfamiliar places."

[Gedankenschild]

Maybe something with battle/war/combat?

"The fastest way to learn how to fight is to seek combat in places that are unfamiliar to you."

Or:
The fighter's way to learn to fight is to fight your fights in fighting arenas where few fighters have fought before!

Forge your skills as a fighter by seeking combat with strong foes in unseen territories... Too much? 

[Vanya]

These are supposed to be medieval villagers, right? Wouldn't it be more consistent if most of them don't necessarily speak properly or even intelligently?

[Turambar]

These are supposed to be medieval villagers, right? Wouldn't it be more consistent if most of them don't necessarily speak properly or even intelligently?

Only if that were the case in the Japanese version, and I don't think it is.

I updated the pastebin with what should be my final suggestions or alternate possibilities.
http://pastebin.com/5GpZiYMz



Another little thing that I'm wondering about that is not necessarily a suggestion...
In your original version, the two parts of this were seperated by a black line. Maybe the new version should have a black line as well? I'm not sure which one looks better. I generally think that it's better to not use the last line of the box if possible. Or maybe there shouldn't be a blank space after die and it should just continue right away.

Code Select Expand


    Original          My revision         Alternate 1         Alternate 2
----------------    ----------------    ----------------    ----------------
|              |    |              |    |              |    |              |
| Put garlic   |    | Put garlic   |    | Put garlic   |    | Put garlic   |
| in cemetery  |    | on cemetery  |    | on cemetery  |    | on cemetery  |
| ground, and  |    | ground, and  |    | ground, and  |    | ground, and  |
| demons die.  | -> | demons will  |    | demons will  |    | demons will  |
|              |    | die.         |    | die.         |    | die. You may |
| You may also |    | You may also |    |              |    | also meet    |
| meet someone |    | meet someone |    | You may also |    | someone      |
| awaiting you.|    | awaiting you.|    | meet someone |    | awaiting you.|
|              |    |              |    | awaiting you.|    |              |
----------------    ----------------    ----------------    ----------------


Also, I think this might sound more natural. Not really a critical change though.
I just thought it sounded more like something that a person would say in real life.
It seems like people are more likely to use brag in this context, instead of boast.

Code Select Expand


----------------    ----------------    ----------------
|              |    |              |    |              |
| I'm not      |    | I'm not      |    | Not to       |
| boasting,    |    | boasting,    |    | brag, but    |
| but when I   |    | but when I   |    | but when I   |
| was your age | -> | was your age | -> | was your age |
| I was really |    | I was really |    | I was really |
| popular with |    | popular with |    | popular with |
| women.       |    | the ladies.  |    | the ladies.  |
|              |    |              |    |              |
|              |    |              |    |              |
----------------    ----------------    ----------------

[Rhetorical]

"I sell holy water. Buy, and you will not regret." -

              Kind of Engrishy.  A native english speaker would say "you will not regret it." but you might be able to find something a little more olde english to replace it, or just add "it" to the sentence.


"The encounter is terminated." - engrish 

              Could be replaced with "Battle is finished" or a dozen other things.

"his blood and sweat have penetrated the earth" -

              Engrish. Blood has been spilled would be the most direct translation.

I found the bit to stop time, I've been meaning to make a pass through the game where I stop at every town and talk to every person to take some more notes on awkward lines of dialogue but I've been quite busy lately.  I'll get to it and report back, but most of the dialogue is pretty clean and a high quality 80's translation.

Also, I think when standing on debrah cliff the map says Northern Jam Wasteland, I'm not sure if that's intentional or not.  I didn't make a note of the area so I might be thinking of the wrong area.

[Bisqwit]

Also, I think when standing on debrah cliff the map says Northern Jam Wasteland, I'm not sure if that's intentional or not.  I didn't make a note of the area so I might be thinking of the wrong area.

I am aware of this problem. The Deborah Cliff / Jam Wasteland sections (there are two of each) are partially joined. The same scene has Deborah cliff in the left edge and the wasteland in the right edge. The scene is so long that I decided that it is better to call it the wasteland rather than the cliff. It is not possible to differentiate the parts thereof with the current way that the map is implemented.

I'm not sure about the blood and sweat part. I'm also refusing the "to never see" change, on the grounds that it has already once been changed based on someone's opinions about split infinitives.
I think all the others are now incorporated in version 2.5.2, just released. This version only adds dialog text fixes in both languages.
Thanks to everybody who contributed dialog change suggestions. (You can contribute more, though!)

[MathUser2929]

So, when are you making a patch with the Japanese manual story? Think that is the next big update.

[Turambar]

Some things!

On the save screen there is no text showing up for the cursor options.

I'm using cv2eng-2_5_2-ntsc-stm10mwmrp4.bps

When you exit out of the save screen it causes Simon to jump, which isn't really desirable behavior.

In the dialogue about "a patrolling man" I think it should be "the patrolling man" because saying "a" implies that there is more than one guy and there isn't.

I'm thinking that Sadam should be Saddam, since it must be a reference to Saddam Hussein. It's also possible that Ondol is meant to be Ondor, a reference to Gondor. Konami has been known to make Tolkien references. In Symphony of the Night there are references to Tulkas, Varda, Mablung, Feanor, Gurthang, and the Nauglamir. Those names are exclusive to the book The Silmarillion, so it's no coincidence.

[Bisqwit]

On the save screen there is no text showing up for the cursor options.

I'm using cv2eng-2_5_2-ntsc-stm10mwmrp4.bps

I could not confirm this problem. What are the circumstances for that happening? Did you accidentally switch to PAL emulation?
Was the patch applied cleanly? Did Beat complain about a checksum error? (It should not.)

When you exit out of the save screen it causes Simon to jump, which isn't really desirable behavior.

Will keep that in mind, thanks. In the meantime, activate the options on the save/load screen by using Start instead of A.

In the dialogue about "a patrolling man" I think it should be "the patrolling man" because saying "a" implies that there is more than one guy and there isn't.

According to my understanding, dialog 102 conveys a rumor about a patrolling man, in a typical superstition style expressed in the game. The person does not know this man, and may not even be sure that he really exists. Using "the" would only make sense if he knew about the particular person or believed that the man exists, and was talking about that one person.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

It's possible that Ondol is meant to be Ondor, a reference to Gondor. Konami has been known to make Tolkien references. In Symphony of the Night there are references to Tulkas, Varda, Mablung, Feanor, Gurthang, and the Nauglamir. Those names are exclusive to the book The Silmarillion, so it's no coincidence.

Possible. But unless this connection is proven (and fits in light of the other town names), I see no reason to change it.

I'm thinking that Sadam should be Saddam, since it must be a reference to Saddam Hussein.

I think it is neither an obvious nor a reasonable assumption that it is a reference to Saddam Hussein.
One of the reasons I can think offhand is that Saddam is written サッダーム in Japanese, whereas the name of this forest is ザダム, which could just as well be a reference to Khazad-dum (since you brought Tolkien up).

So, when are you making a patch with the Japanese manual story? Think that is the next big update.

I don't think I have time very soon to plan it forward.

[Turambar]

I could not confirm this problem. What are the circumstances for that happening? Did you accidentally switch to PAL emulation?
Was the patch applied cleanly? Did Beat complain about a checksum error? (It should not.)

The circumstances are that I go to the screen and the text is not there. The text doesn't work in FCEUX, but it does work in Nestopia. I don't know what in FCEUX that would mess it up. I fiddled with the settings and nothing fixes it.

Will keep that in mind, thanks. In the meantime, activate the options on the save/load screen by using Start instead of A.

I actually tried pressing Start, but only A was working at the time. I tried it again just now and Start is working now, strangely.

According to my understanding, dialog 102 conveys a rumor about a patrolling man, in a typical superstition style expressed in the game. The person does not know this man, and may not even be sure that he really exists. Using "the" would only make sense if he knew about the particular person or believed that the man exists, and was talking about that one person.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

If it is supposed to sound superstitious then "a" would work fine if the sentence was started with "they say" like "they say that there is a patrolling man in the cemetery." I guess there is not enough room to fully convey the message.

Possible. But unless this connection is proven (and fits in light of the other town names), I see no reason to change it.

Seems like either Ondol or Ondor could work just because of the L and R situation with Japanese. Is there a reason to prefer Ondol? I mean, "Vlad" was "Vrad."

I think it is neither an obvious nor a reasonable assumption that it is a reference to Saddam Hussein.
One of the reasons I can think offhand is that Saddam is written サッダーム in Japanese, whereas the name of this forest is ザダム, which could just as well be a reference to Khazad-dum (since you brought Tolkien up).

Well, they used random names like "Deborah" and "Denis" (which are names related to religion) so I think it's reasonable that they would throw a mention of Saddam in there because, well, he is an evil guy. I mean, they threw Vlad in there and the Dracula in Castlevania is not referred to as Vlad. Sadam could also have been Sodom (another reference to religion). Japanese has limited syllables, so sometimes they can only approximate it.

[Vanya]

Well, they used random names like "Deborah" and "Denis" (which are names related to religion) so I think it's reasonable that they would throw a mention of Saddam in there because, well, he is an evil guy. I mean, they threw Vlad in there and the Dracula in Castlevania is not referred to as Vlad. Sadam could also have been Sodom (another reference to religion). Japanese has limited syllables, so sometimes they can only approximate it.

You're not taking into consideration that Saddam Hussein wasn't a widely known world figure back in 1987. I've looked into the names of the towns in CV2 and from what I can see many of them are actually influenced by real place names in Romania. At least when I looked at a map of Romania I saw lots of names that are at least partially similar and could have simply been corrupted during the translation process.

[Turambar]

You're not taking into consideration that Saddam Hussein wasn't a widely known world figure back in 1987. I've looked into the names of the towns in CV2 and from what I can see many of them are actually influenced by real place names in Romania. At least when I looked at a map of Romania I saw lots of names that are at least partially similar and could have simply been corrupted during the translation process.

Yeah, I guess he wasn't that well known at the time. I should look into the Romania thing.

[Vanya]

Be warned, Romanian is pretty dissimilar to Japanese so things might not seem so obvious at first.

[MathUser2929]

Here's a couple requests. It would be useful if when buying items it would show your current amount of hearts. I believe later Metroidvania games did this. Also, either a optional patch, or even just a cheat code to keep current hearts after dying. My younger brother is trying to get into this game and it seems like a deterrent to playing to lose all your hearts when you die. The game don't punish you by removing experience, HP, and levels when you game over. So I don't see why hearts have to be affected. He quit playing when he realized all his hearts were gone. If you are worried about affecting balance simply make it a patching option.

Edit:Also, I don't know if you can fit this, but how about adding "next:0000" to show how much more experience you need to level up? Either show how much experience the next level is achieved at.

Or perhaps to save space you could add experience remaining until the next level. For example if you have 51 experience, and the next level is at 100, the number in the counter would be 49. That would show how much experience you need to reach the next level. You might be able to use less digits this way too.

[Rhetorical]

Here's a couple requests. It would be useful if when buying items it would show your current amount of hearts. I believe later Metroidvania games did this. Also, either a optional patch, or even just a cheat code to keep current hearts after dying. My younger brother is trying to get into this game and it seems like a deterrent to playing to lose all your hearts when you die. The game don't punish you by removing experience, HP, and levels when you game over. So I don't see why hearts have to be affected. He quit playing when he realized all his hearts were gone. If you are worried about affecting balance simply make it a patching option.

You can do this yourself by putting in an infinite lives code.  Google should turn one up, if not you can easily make one with FCEU.

Asking Bisqwit to add an infinite lives cheat code to an already easy game probably isn't going to happen.

Edit:Also, I don't know if you can fit this, but how about adding "next:0000" to show how much more experience you need to level up? Either show how much experience the next level is achieved at.

Or perhaps to save space you could add experience remaining until the next level. For example if you have 51 experience, and the next level is at 100, the number in the counter would be 49. That would show how much experience you need to reach the next level. You might be able to use less digits this way too.

If we're tweaking the experience system, I wouldn't object.  I always seem to finish the game at level 4, because I don't usually grind each area, and end up in the "Zero Experience" status at an inopportune time.