Castlevania II (Simon's Quest) - Multilingual enhancement

Started by Bisqwit, December 19, 2012, 01:38:36 PM

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Bisqwit

I have just released version 2.3.3. This fixes the ending text typo reported by Rhetorical and adds a few lines of extra dialog to the ferryman, displayed in different situations. The italic capital "Y" character was also tweaked a little (but nothing will break even if you don't update your VROM).

In order to preserve the faithfulness of the translation, the "main" dialog given by a character in normal gameplay is never* changed from the spirit and meaning of the original Japanese text. All my extensions touch the characters' dialog in unexpected situations, such as when you talk to them multiple times, or you are carrying a certain item, or when the in-game clock matches certain conditions. There are currently eighteen of these added dialog items.
*) More often true than not.

EDIT: In the English retranslation, I have not changed the prologue text (on title screen part 2) in any way. Does someone have an idea of how, if any, it should be changed? The text is in fact exactly the same as in the original Japanese version. The NAR localizers did not change it, and it's a bit Engrishy in my opinion -- but I don't have an inspiration on how exactly to change it.


Above: Original PAL version. Below: Original FDS version.

MathUser2929

Can you perhaps, have the dialogue box have a different color border for new text? It'd be nice to know what is retranslation and what is text inserted by the hack author.


Bisqwit

Quote from: MathUser2929 on March 07, 2013, 02:43:34 PMCan you perhaps, have the dialogue box have a different color border for new text? It'd be nice to know what is retranslation and what is text inserted by the hack author.

I think such an artificial distinction would be detracting from the gameplay.

Bregalad

I am the only one who think the game is now hacked so much it does not seems much like Castlevania II any longer ? I don't know whether this is good or bad though.

keropi

Quote from: Bregalad on March 07, 2013, 03:20:30 PM
I am the only one who think the game is now hacked so much it does not seems much like Castlevania II any longer ? I don't know whether this is good or bad though.

there is always the original game if this seems odd ;)

@Bisqwit:

regarding title screen, maybe this?

"You've arrived back at Transylvania with one purpose: to destroy forever the curse of the evil Count Dracula. "

I can't think something atm for the 1st sentence...

I'm glad I waited and did not build the cart yet, I have all the parts but the updates keep coming  ;D


ChronoMoogle

First sentence kombined with kerobi's idea (switched some words around, though):
"Stepping into the shadows of the House of Hell, you've arrived back at Transylvania with only one purpose:
To destroy the curse of the evil Count Dracula once and forever."
(edit: not sure about the "once and" because you have already tried it one time, any thoughts of that? I think it sounds nice and athmospheric)

MathUser2929

He is starting to stray really far from a retranslation now. Most of the changes make the game better. But adding extra dialogue that isn't part of the original game? "Retranslating" already in english text?

Bisqwit

Quote from: MathUser2929 on March 07, 2013, 04:57:04 PM
He is starting to stray really far from a retranslation now. Most of the changes make the game better. But adding extra dialogue that isn't part of the original game? "Retranslating" already in english text?
Or adding game features that did not exist originally?

The idea with "'retranslating' text that already was in English" is to improve the localization of the game. Localization and translation are related topics that go hand-in-hand. In this case, it would be about making the game sit easier in the reader's mind.

However, as far as localization goes, there is no right way to do it. There are always different opinions.

For the subject of extra dialogue, the point is in localizing the game for the target platform, by breaking free from the constraints imposed by the FDS platform that were unnecessarily translated into the cartridge platform, carrying forward with the spirit of the original design, and the goal is in increasing the fluency of the game, by making the different actors more aware of what is happening in the game.  Chances are, if I did not specifically advertise this fact, you wouldn't have even noticed. (Which makes the question of "does not seems much like Castlevania II any longer" moot.)

Personally, I'm kind of torn on whether it was the right call to increase the hearts limit. I did it based on feedback, as was also the case for the SRAM engine.

Again, your mileage may vary.

keropi

The SRAM engine is awesome, don't have second thoughts on that!  :)
Also I can't understand why the complains: this is a "personal project" that evolved from a simple translation to making the game better. Even on the 1st version the game featured a map that was nowhere to be found in the game.
There is always the original game for those that don't like all the fancy stuff , not to mention the awesome patch vending system that allows you to enable/disable certain features...

MathUser2929

Well, if you won't add something to differenciate normal dialogue from added dialogue, at least add something to the vending system so we can choose to not use the extra dialogue.

Edit: I think you do actually after checking the page. But since it's in finnish it's not easy to tell without using google translate on the page.

Bisqwit

Quote from: MathUser2929 on March 07, 2013, 06:01:03 PM
Well, if you won't add something to differenciate normal dialogue from added dialogue, at least add something to the vending system so we can choose to not use the extra dialogue.

It is already there, and has been there for about 13 months.



(Also, 2.3.4. released, changelog message shown in the above screenshot.)

MathUser2929

If you're not sure about the heart max increasing, then you could  make that a option on the vending system too. I think that's a good change myself.

Bisqwit

Technically the maximum number of hearts is already a parameter to the patch vending machine. An integer parameter. There are a several dynamically configurable settings that the insertor supports, but which I have kept out and hidden from the form, in order to impose at least some limit to how many different patches there are potentially being distributed.

I may soon potentially also remove the "extra password features" section for this reason (and because the default option is entirely reasonable).

Quote from: MathUser2929 on March 07, 2013, 06:01:03 PMEdit: I think you do actually after checking the page. But since it's in finnish it's not easy to tell without using google translate on the page.

The page automatically switches language when you hit the "change page language" button located in the first paragraph of the page in a distinct bright color. It also switches language when you toggle the patch language by clicking "Retranslated English".

Rhetorical

Quote from: Bisqwit on March 07, 2013, 10:45:59 AM
I have just released version 2.3.3. This fixes the ending text typo reported by Rhetorical and adds a few lines of extra dialog to the ferryman, displayed in different situations. The italic capital "Y" character was also tweaked a little (but nothing will break even if you don't update your VROM).

Awesome, what a fast update!

If you're taking suggestions for the prologue, I'd prefer something like "Since Dracula's death a year ago, a strange curse has fallen over the land. Simon is growing weaker by the day, and he knows his only chance of survival is to quickly gather the five remaining relics of Dracula, and confront him in his manor once again!"

Ties into the goal of the game, and references the subtitle (Simon's Curse), both things that seem to be missing from in the game.  Also adds some urgency to the fact that you'll die if you don't do it fast enough.

I'd cut the "PROLOGUE" line if you need more space.

Quote from: Bregalad on March 07, 2013, 03:20:30 PM
I am the only one who think the game is now hacked so much it does not seems much like Castlevania II any longer ? I don't know whether this is good or bad though.

Only if you consider broken clues and a bad translation to be part of the game.  You could possibly quibble over the heart capacity change, but everything else seems very true to the original developer's intent.  A translation project like this isn't an exact science.

Quote from: MathUser2929 on March 07, 2013, 04:57:04 PM
He is starting to stray really far from a retranslation now. Most of the changes make the game better. But adding extra dialogue that isn't part of the original game? "Retranslating" already in english text?

Many times a direct translation doesn't directly translate anything.  Things like duck/soul didn't really transfer, and many things were poorly worded even in their original form.

Absolutely nothing wrong with fixing some bad text, bad translations, and bad Engrish!

Vanya

I have an idea for the prologue. My reasoning is the same as the point of adding the map feature. It was to include something from the manual that was an essential part of the original experience. Why not include the original story too? The original prologue text is pretty much superfluous and adds nothing to the experience. It would be nice for the game to include SOMETHING about the mysterious chick that tells Simon to go on this quest to begin with. I think this would make the game more complete and is the best way to do it short of implementing a cut scene.

Rhetorical

Additional question: Any chance we can get a fast text speed so it matches how fast the Japanese version is?

Da_GPer

Quote from: Rhetorical on March 08, 2013, 12:00:21 AM
If you're taking suggestions for the prologue, I'd prefer something like "Since Dracula's death a year ago, a strange curse has fallen over the land. Simon is growing weaker by the day, and he knows his only chance of survival is to quickly gather the five remaining relics of Dracula, and confront him in his manor once again!"

Ties into the goal of the game, and references the subtitle (Simon's Curse), both things that seem to be missing from in the game.  Also adds some urgency to the fact that you'll die if you don't do it fast enough.

I'd cut the "PROLOGUE" line if you need more space.

I like the prologue Rhetorical wrote, but it should be cleaned up a little. Maybe change a word or two or something, but the message is defiantly a "to the point" message that sets the story and tells you whats going on before the game even begins, which is what it should have done in the first place.

Bisqwit

Quote from: Rhetorical on March 08, 2013, 01:46:26 AM
Additional question: Any chance we can get a fast text speed so it matches how fast the Japanese version is?
The text speed is already matched to the Japanese version.
You can see a comparison here:

and another here:

It is taken from Finnish version 0.9 or something like that, but this has not been changed since then.
The new Finnish and English dialog is a little longer text than the original, though, and thus still takes longer time. The original did not have a "You know the ferryman, at the dead river?" part, for instance. It just dived right into it, "The dead river ferryman loves garlic most, I've heard."


Quote from: Vanya on March 08, 2013, 12:24:55 AMWhy not include the original story too? The original prologue text is pretty much superfluous and adds nothing to the experience. It would be nice for the game to include SOMETHING about the mysterious chick that tells Simon to go on this quest to begin with. I think this would make the game more complete and is the best way to do it short of implementing a cut scene.

I like your idea.

Quote from: Rhetorical on March 08, 2013, 12:00:21 AMIf you're taking suggestions for the prologue, I'd prefer something like "Since Dracula's death a year ago, a strange curse has fallen over the land. Simon is growing weaker by the day, and he knows his only chance of survival is to quickly gather the five remaining relics of Dracula, and confront him in his manor once again!"

Ties into the goal of the game, and references the subtitle (Simon's Curse), both things that seem to be missing from in the game.  Also adds some urgency to the fact that you'll die if you don't do it fast enough.

And I like yours too.

I will have to check what the original manual says about the backstory. The USA manual seems to have some kind of an abridged version thereof.


March 08, 2013, 09:28:25 AM - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)


Here is my translation of the Japanese prologue from the manual.

> ドラキュラⅡ プロローグ

Dracula II [Simon's Quest] -- Prologue

> "悪魔城ドラキュウラ"... あの衝撃のラストシーンから、7年の歳月が過ぎた。

"Akumajou Dracula [Castlevania]"... It has been 7 years since the last scene where the castle collapsed.

> そして、舞台は再びここ、トランシルバニアの方田舎へと戻ってきた......。

And once again, this stage has been set in the countryside of Transylvania...

> 英雄・シモン=ベルモンドは、ドラキュラを倒し、その肉体を100年の永い眠りにつけた。

When the hero, Simon Belmont, defeated Dracula, the body fell into a long 100-year sleep.

> だが、彼は自分自身の肉体を犠牲にして戦っていたのだ。

However, that battle happened at the cost of the sacrifice of his own body.

> ドラキュラとの死闘でうけた背中の傷が、日ましに彼の肉体をむしばみ、 そして彼は自分の死期が近づいているのを感じだ。

The wounds, that he contracted during the battle against Dracula, have been eating his body away little by little every day, and he has a feeling of impending death.

> あの時、シモンはベルモンド一族の眠る、天使の丘の墓の前にきた。 そして自分自身の生涯をふりかえっていた。

One day, Simon was dreaming about the family of Belmont, and he came in front of a grave of height of an angel.
[Or: He came to the front of his family grave in the Hill of Angels]

And he looked upon his entire life so far.

> その時、シモンは背中に気配を感じ、ふりむくと、
> 朝もやの中に、1人の女性が立っていた。
> 女性はシモンに話しかけてきた。

At that moment, he felt a presence behind his back, and he turned back to see,
and behold, there was a a woman standing, in the morning mist.
The woman approached and talked to Simon.


>「あなたの生命は、邪悪な呪いに左右されています。このままでは危険です。

"Your life is dominated by an evil curse. At this rate, you are in danger.

> しかし、もし今もあなたの心が、邪悪に対し、 生命を賭けて立ちむかう勇気を持っているなら、 神はあなたに力をさずけるでしょう。

However, if you can put your heart into it and face the evil again, and if you are willing to risk your life and you possess the courage, God will surely grant you the necessary strength.

> 邪悪の呪いの力が再び年月をおって蓄積され、 その力が頂点に達したとき、ドラキュラは再び復活するのです。

The power of the evil curse has once again accumulated for years and months, and if the power is allowed to accumulate beyond a certain point, Dracula will certainly revive again.

> 永久にその肉体を消滅させる方法は1つしかありません。

There is only one way that that body can ever be destroyed.

> ドラキュラの肉体は、粉砕されてから7年目の今日、復活をはじめます。

In the seven years that have transpired since the body of Dracula was pulverized, it has already began resurrecting itself.

> つまり、肉体の5つの部品が地上に姿を現すのです。

In other words, the 5 parts of the body are making an apperance above the ground.

> この肉体を、呪いの力が弱いうちに見つけだし、 牙城であるドラキュラ城で焼きはらい、封印してしまうのです。 この封印により、ドラキュラ伝説にも終止符が打たれることでしょう。

While the power of the curse is still weak, you must find these body parts,  bring them into Dracula's castle, and purify them by burning them, thereby sealing them. Through this seal, the legend of Dracula will be stricken with a definite ending.

> そして、あなたの背中の傷も、呪いから開放され癒えるでしょう。

And when the curse is lifted, your body will begin to heal, as well.

> この方法でしか、ドラキュラを永久に消滅させることはできません」

There is no other way to eliminate Dracula once and for all."

> この言葉を最後に、女性は朝もやのむこうへと消えていった。

After these words, the woman disappeared beyond the morning mist.

> そして、英雄・シモン=ベルモンドは再び新たなる決意で旅だつのであった。

And so, the hero, Simon Belmont, went to a new journey with newfound determination.

> もうあなたの後に道はない! 戦えシモン!

There is no other path in ahead of you! Fight, Simon!

> Please.Remember Bitter Memories In TRANSILVANIA!

Monkey Furnace Carbonator! Brickbat Lingerie!

---
Seven years, huh. I wonder what is the "last year I saw you" dialog in Doina about, then.

keropi

I just noticed this on the site, on the pcb donors part:

QuoteMMC3-based: TKROM (examples: Shadowgate, Uninvited), TKSROM (example: YS III)

Now, because I actually made a translated YsIII cart for famicom (don't know if NES is different in that aspect) TKROM and TKSROM are different. If you put a TKSROM game on a TKROM board you will have weird scrolling issues.
You must convert the TKROM to TKSROM for YsIII to work (TKROM->TKSROM involves rewiring CIRAM A10 from mmc3_pin#10 to mmc3_pin#12).

I don't know if cv2 can detect this or not or just works, but having the wrong CIRAM A10 line leads to stuff like this: video of YsIII running on TKROM -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrZxbZ6oKsI