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Author Topic: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation  (Read 25721 times)

LostTemplar

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2012, 04:05:36 am »
On an unrelated note, BGB is telling me that VRAM is being written to when it shouldn't. Not the first game this has happened to and I wouldn't be surprised if the game was shoddily programmed.

Looking at the code of some of Square's SNES titles I wouldn't be surprised either.

granz

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2012, 09:36:17 am »
The game uses a combination of one and two-byte dictionary compression with a little RLE thrown in for good measure. Intro script starts at 25FBE.

So, want to help me out here? You dump and I'll translate. :P

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On an unrelated note, BGB is telling me that VRAM is being written to when it shouldn't. Not the first game this has happened to and I wouldn't be surprised if the game was shoddily programmed.

There are two other possibilities that come to mind: sara had to get pretty creative when it came to expanding some of the strings or otherwise re-arranging elements on the screen. (the magic inventory had to be totally redone) This might have caused unintended side-effects. Another thing worth noting is that the text prints two lines simultaneously, with one superimposed on top of the other. This is how it renders diacritical marks in kana. We can't code that effect out, so it's still being executed, even though it's printing... nothing. I have no idea whether or not this could be related to VRAM in any way.
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Pennywise

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2012, 01:23:49 pm »
Sorry, you'll have to get your hands dirty. I'll upload my partial table to give you an idea what to do.

http://yojimbo.eludevisibility.org/Stuff/saga3.tbl

My comment about VRAM had nothing to do with your patch. It's something that happens with the unmodified ROM.


granz

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2012, 02:52:36 pm »
sara actually has the character set and then some. It's somewhere here along with other dumps. (some of these files pertain to FFLegend 1 and 2, respectively)

You can find bits and pieces of the game script there, if that's of any interest to you.
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granz

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2012, 03:47:30 pm »
Things are picking up again. We actually managed to put the rest of the script together, and now all I have to do is finish translating it.

It looks like quite a lot of context was lost in translation, namely because the official English localization team was completely incompetent. English audiences really didn't get the grit of the story. I guess it's up to me to fix that. :)

I'm not sure if I can give a time frame on the project's completion, but it shouldn't take me more than a month. (although, it may be a bit slower due to the holidays)

On a side note, I've deleted my help-wanted ad. It looks like no additional technical resources are needed at this point. I mean, all that's left is insertion.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 03:55:10 pm by granz »
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Jorpho

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2012, 11:31:13 pm »
It looks like quite a lot of context was lost in translation, namely because the official English localization team was completely incompetent. English audiences really didn't get the grit of the story. I guess it's up to me to fix that. :)
Did you know it was actually Ted Woolsey's first project at Square?

I guess the DS version currently being translated is sufficiently different that there would be no overlap in the scripts?
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granz

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2012, 01:44:42 am »
Did you know it was actually Ted Woolsey's first project at Square?

Odd, because there's a lot of Engrish in the script, not to mention some things are left out entirely. I'm sure it's possible there were Japanese editors or department heads making changes to his drafts, though. That's the only explanation I can think of, because it would be really unusual for a native speaker to make those kinds of mistakes.

If I were Ted, I wouldn't brag about FFLegend III on my resume.

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I guess the DS version currently being translated is sufficiently different that there would be no overlap in the scripts?

Yes. The DS version is a whole other vision of SaGa 3 on modern hardware. There's no script overlap because the DS version expands on too many things and adds events, quests, characters, etc. that weren't in the GB original.
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Pennywise

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2012, 02:05:51 am »
I think considering what Woolsey was up against, he did a pretty good job. As fans we have the benefit of not having to keep a schedule and having to finish something within a set amount of time. Pioneers like Ted didn't have that and according to an interview he stated that he had to cut about 40% of text (I don't believe this was game specific, just a general statement) from his translations due to space restraints.

Bregalad

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2012, 09:23:32 am »
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As fans we have the benefit of not having to keep a schedule and having to finish something within a set amount of time.
This, and we can also expand the ROM.
Fewer games expanded the ROM while being translated, but at last Dragon Warrior 1, 2, 3 did, and Earthbound (NES) did too, which might be why it wasn't released to the market - the production would have costed more than for japanese cartridge since the ROM would be bigger.

granz

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2012, 07:01:41 pm »
I'm not really familiar with the scene. I don't actually know any professional video game translators by name. This is my first translation project ever, so any judgments I make about the video game industry might be premature.

I have heard the name "Ted Woosley" before, but I can't remember where. I think someone mentioned his involvement in FF6 or something. Either that, or there was something controversial about him / FF6's translation.

Well, I'm getting kind of off-topic, but that's okay. This project is almost finished, and few people are interested in discussing SaGa 3 anyway. :P
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KingMike

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2012, 11:09:27 pm »
He translated SNES-era Square games.
Secret of Mana, FF6, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, Breath of Fire 1.

Some people didn't like his FF6 translation, which included a handful of quite ridiculous lines.
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granz

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2013, 01:29:21 pm »
Geez. Has it been 60 days since my last post here?

I've run into some frustrations with the space constraints. Any time I try to reword something for added clarity or more accurate translation, it ends up consuming too many characters. As bad as this may sound, I'm honestly thinking about a copy / paste of the existing English script with a few revisions to grammar, censorship, differences in character names and references, and whatever clarity I can manage to cram in there.

At the very least, this is a desperate placeholder so I can go ahead with a full release, as opposed to sticking everyone with a half-translated ROM. I may come back in the future and try to redo the dialog again. If not, then at least the entire game will be in a playable state, with some minor improvements.
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Pennywise

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2013, 04:09:37 pm »
The solution to your woes is ROM expansion.

granz

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2013, 04:49:04 pm »
The solution to your woes is ROM expansion.

Which would be great, if I knew how. I'm really just the translator. sara does most of the leg work, and she hasn't mentioned anything about expansion. It might be something she's never done before; but I'll run it by her anyway.

Of course, anyone who could volunteer this would be greatly appreciated. I have no idea what level of complexity such an operation involves.
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TheZunar123

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2013, 05:14:29 pm »
I've never heard of the Final Fantasy Legend games, but they do sound interesting. The only GB Final Fantasy game I've played is Final Fantasy Adventure, which is good too. I might give them a try.

I've looked around about rom expansion, but I haven't found anything that might help you. I know that rom expansion can be easy or difficult depending on the system and the game (for example, GBA & SNES tend to be easy to expand, but NES can be difficult). Might want to look around on the site and see if there's any documents on rom expansion and see if it mentions GB.
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Pennywise

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2013, 06:55:39 pm »
I've never done any expansion hacks on the GB, but I hear it's pretty easy. I might be willing to help, but it's a two-fold process of hacking the code and updating the script insertion process.

KingMike

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2013, 07:35:50 pm »
The GB "Final Fantasy Legends" are rebranded SaGa games, and Final Fantasy Adventure is a rebranded Seiken Densetsu 1.

I've also heard expansion is pretty easy on GameBoy, but you would need to check documentation for the ROM (and possibly RAM) limits of the mapper.
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TheZunar123

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2013, 08:31:20 pm »
Question, if I want to play this game, should I play the original game or should I wait until this re-translation is finished?
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Pikachumanson

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2013, 01:16:45 am »
I enjoyed the original translation back when i was a kid. Do what you will. Personally, i think retranslations should come with extras like they do when they rerelease games here in stateside. Unless the dialog just was that bad then that's a different story.

granz

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Re: SaGa 3: Champions of Time & Space (GB) re-translation
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2013, 07:08:22 pm »
Question, if I want to play this game, should I play the original game or should I wait until this re-translation is finished?

The differences between the two versions aren't major. I guess you're not missing out on anything by playing the official English localization. The main difference is how the menus are handled. See earlier screenshots on the first page for more information.
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